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Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road Recent News, political or military events, which may affect trip plans or routes. Personal and vehicle security, tips and questions.
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  #1  
Old 23 Jun 2013
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Tourists killed by gunmen near Gilgit, Pakistan off the KKH

Location - near Fairy Meadows, about 100km from Gilgit

BBC News - Gunmen kill nine tourists in Kashmir
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  #2  
Old 23 Jun 2013
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this is not good news at all, at makes me very nervy, as this type of attack the attackers dress up as armed forces/police. So when you rock up at a checkpoint, or get a knock at your guesthouse door how are you supposed to tell..

RIP to the poor tourists murdered, and for every Pakistani killed in futile conflict at the moment...

I hope they don't close the KKH to tourists.... only time will tell...
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  #3  
Old 23 Jun 2013
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Gunmen kill nine foreign tourists and their guide in Nanga Parbat Base Camp

Hi everyone, one of the famous Turkish climber a firend of mine was at the base camp during the attack. I know that he is safe now, but sadly the news are true.

Anybody from Pakistan can tell about these groups that attacked foreigners? I didn't heard about that kind of attacks in that area nowadays or in last years.

Details are here;

Gunmen stormed a hotel in Nanga Parbat, a remote part of northern Pakistan, on Sunday and killed nine foreign tourists and a Pakistani guide near the foot of one of the world's tallest mountains, police and security officials said.

Five Ukrainians, three Chinese, a Russian and their guide were killed in the attack in a remote resort area near the base camp for the 8,125-metre snow-covered Nanga Parbat peak, a popular destination for adventurous trekkers, officials said.

“Unknown people entered a hotel where foreign tourists were staying last night and opened fire,” Ali Sher, a senior police officer in Gilgit-Baltistan province, told Reuters.

Sher had earlier said 10 foreign tourists were killed, but officials revised the tally as fresh reports arrived from the area.

A Pakistani militant group known as Jundullah claimed responsibility for the attack.

“These foreigners are our enemies and we proudly claim responsibility for killing them and will continue such attacks in the future as well,” Jundullah spokesman Ahmed Marwat told Reuters by telephone.

The same group has claimed reponsibility for a series of attacks on members of the country's Shia Muslim minority, in northern Pakistan, including an ambush in February 2012 when gunmen shot 18 bus passengers by the roadside.

The gunmen fled after the attack on the hotel, which took place at about 1 am on Sunday, Sher said.

A senior government official said a large number of security personnel had been sent to the area.

“Since the area is very remote with no roads or transport, the bodies will have to be retrieved by helicopter,” the official said.

Gilgit-Baltistan, which borders China and Kashmir, had been considered one of the more secure areas of Pakistan, but has witnessed a spate of attacks by militants targeting members of Pakistan's Shia minority in recent years.

It was the first time foreign tourists had been attacked in the province, which is famous for its natural beauty. Pakistan receives few foreign tourists, but a trickle of visitors is tempted by the spectacular mountain scenery in its northern areas, where the Hindu Kush, Karakoram and Himalaya mountain ranges converge.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and President Asif Ali Zardari have strongly condemned the incident.
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  #4  
Old 23 Jun 2013
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Terrible pity that ISLAMIC terrorism is reaching beautiful hitherto peaceful parts of the earth like this. The local people will be the first to suffer as travelers and tourists alike will choose to go elsewhere.

This is the first time I have heard of such things happening in this beautiful part of Pakistan.

My thoughts go out to the families of those murdered by these monsters.
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Old 23 Jun 2013
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there is nothing particularly Islamic about a Taliban terrorist attack, its like saying the Ku Klux Klan represent Christianity,
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  #6  
Old 23 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
at makes me very nervy,..
Why?

More people get killed on the roads of the UK.
A bus load went down a ravine in Montenegro today during a deluge of rain, but no one has posted that in here, yet.
It's another case of "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" - same as someone who dies in their bed when their chimney collapses and comes crashing through the roof.

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Originally Posted by Fern View Post
I hope they don't close the KKH to tourists.... only time will tell...
Yep, that is giving in to those who perpetrate these atrocities in the name of Islam; sometimes in the name of the Sunni branch, sometimes in the name of t'others, but always using the religion of Islam as the excuse/distorted reasoning (lack of).
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  #7  
Old 23 Jun 2013
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This is a travel forum and not the right place to talk about PR.
(Politics,Religion) and keep a religion responsible for terrorism.

Its global terrorism and everywhere..Remember Oslo Utoya Island on 22.July.2012 and dont trust media that much..

Religion is between my heart and my God.We must respect others to be respected for a more peaceful world..

Also getting visas will be more easy and travelling more happy this way!!!!
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  #8  
Old 24 Jun 2013
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no, I've done the KKH, what I mean is that when you are rolling up to a check point you are not sure if they are genuine or not.. whether you get a friendly greeting or a shot in the head.

Not long before I passed through, a group of pilgrims were hauled off a bus by a 'military' checkpoint, and then shot.

At least 20 Shias pulled off bus, shot dead in northern Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Who can you trust?

I can't exactly ask 'are you the real thing or a terrorist'?
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  #9  
Old 24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehmet Zeki Avar View Post
This is a travel forum and not the right place to talk about PR.
(Politics,Religion) and keep a religion responsible for terrorism.

Its global terrorism and everywhere..Remember Oslo Utoya Island on 22.July.2012 and dont trust media that much..

Religion is between my heart and my God.We must respect others to be respected for a more peaceful world..

Also getting visas will be more easy and travelling more happy this way!!!!
you're right, this is no place for the discussion of politics or religion. it IS, however, the right place to talk about SAFETY.

it is not about the religion being responsible for terrorism, just a whole mess of fools running around killing people in the name of their "god." unfortunately, the world has seen this before. it may not be what "god" wants. but as long as people keep saying they are killing in the name of "god" that particular religion is going to be blamed.

lastly, the taliban are muslim fanatics and claim that what they are doing is in the name of their "god."
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  #10  
Old 24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teevee View Post
you're right, this is no place for the discussion of politics or religion. it IS, however, the right place to talk about SAFETY.

it is not about the religion being responsible for terrorism, just a whole mess of fools running around killing people in the name of their "god." unfortunately, the world has seen this before. it may not be what "god" wants. but as long as people keep saying they are killing in the name of "god" that particular religion is going to be blamed.

lastly, the taliban are muslim fanatics and claim that what they are doing is in the name of their "god."
So you're going to not make this a religious discussion by...er...making it a religious discussion? Well done. Very classy.

Anyway this sort of stuff is always political and to do with territory and power and wealth, and disparities therein. It's never about religion per se

More importantly its usually about incredibly stupid people with no education and few aspirations striking out at the world. Never doubt that the same would not happen anywhere in the world if conditions became bad enough and the people as uneducated and hopeless
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  #11  
Old 24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
no, I've done the KKH, what I mean is that when you are rolling up to a check point you are not sure if they are genuine or not.. whether you get a friendly greeting or a shot in the head.

Not long before I passed through, a group of pilgrims were hauled off a bus by a 'military' checkpoint, and then shot.

At least 20 Shias pulled off bus, shot dead in northern Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Who can you trust?

I can't exactly ask 'are you the real thing or a terrorist'?
You confirm my point; you are/were "in or around the wrong place" and who knows how close you have come to being "at the wrong time" as well.
You can only make a judgement based on all the factors, at that specific time and space continuum.

This other thread on the same subject asked about the perpetrators:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...tourists-70963

The group mentioned in your own link claimed responsibility yesterday (I have already forgotten the name attributed to them), along with a separate claim of responsibility from the so-called Pakistani Taliban.
Hereafter, it is a case of yet another day, so there will be little further notice paid to this particular event, except by those who are directly affected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
Who can you trust?
On some days, no one!
Not the politicians, not the religious leaders, not the religious zealots, not even your own riding partner, on a really bad day.
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  #12  
Old 24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehmet Zeki Avar View Post
This is a travel forum and not the right place to talk about PR.
(Politics,Religion)
I always find this approach to the subject of travel to be very strange: without some modicum of understanding of the local politics/religion (which go hand-in-hand in many parts of the world) then how is one to gain value from travelling? In fact, why bother travelling? Why not do something more useful?

Incidentally, there is rarely any discussion in the HUBB of the motivation for travel; sometimes there is some vague notion of "saving the world" or helping with some specific charity (for the latter there is considerable scepticism within some threads about the motivation of some of these efforts).

What is the value in travel? What is the value of travelling by motorcycle?
OK, those are really big questions! ----- is this a travel forum or "Travellers advisories, safety and security on the road", whether the road be the KKH or some road in Montenegro?
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Last edited by Walkabout; 25 Jun 2013 at 10:03.
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  #13  
Old 24 Jun 2013
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For me, the significance of this event goes beyond the terrible tragedy for the victims and their families and friends, and the impending loss of income of those local people in Gilgit Baltistan whose livelihood is based on tourism. I have been planning a RTW route for awhile, and I have wanted to travel the route from Kashgar, China into Pakistan and then on through Lahore to India. Prior to this event, the Gilgit area seemed plagued with sectarian violence, such as that which occurred in August 2012, but not a place where foreigners were likely to be targeted. Now, however, if foreign tourists are going to be gunned down while they sleep by Taliban, this probably rules me out (though I don't plan to leave for another 20 months). Every rider will need to make his own calculus, perhaps weighing the principles of not bowing to terrorists and the beauty of the KKH vs. the potential personal dangers. Yes, you are more likely to be hit be a truck in Delhi. But for my personal trip, as a US citizen (who has lived abroad for 20 years) with three college aged children back at home, I don't think I'll include Gilgit on this trip. Lots of great roads, cultures, people, food, etc on other routes. This is very disappointing for me - my last trip to Pakistan was 30 years ago - and I was keen to go back. Who knows, maybe things will change in the next year? But at least recently, it appears to me that Pakistan is becoming more challenging rather than easier. Time to get the maps back out...
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Old 24 Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Why?

More people get killed on the roads of the UK...It's another case of "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" - same as someone who dies in their bed when their chimney collapses and comes crashing through the roof.
Different strokes for different folks I guess, but while I am perfectly willing to risk my life in some pretty remote places or even the dangerous roads of the UK, I try to avoid areas where the local populace or parts thereof are actively seeking to kill me.
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Old 24 Jun 2013
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It is depressing that such wonderful places are riven by such strife and that a handful of murderous loonies can have such a deleterious effect upon locals and visitors.

Pray for a quick resolution and a return to safety, I guess
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