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Syria: Nordic embassies burnt down
In January a major Danish newspaper and a fundamentalistic Norwegian christian magazine printed caricature drawings of the Islamic prophet Muhammed. This has sparked anger against Nordic citizens in several Islamic countries. Today, 4 Feb, an angry mob in Syria's capitol Damascus attacked and burnt down the Danish and Norwegian embassies. Luckily no one was injured in the attacks as the embassies was closed. Some of the demonstrators was brought to hospital due to the Syrian police's use of tear gas in an attempt to disperse the mob.
Norway and Denmark have asked their citizens to leave Syria immediately due to the hostilities, and to be vigilant in other Islamic countries. A very strange experience indeed, to watch the Norwegian flag be burnt by an angry mob in Syria. This has usually been a "treat" reserved to the US. Now, the Islamic world has turned their anger to these small countries far up north. I think this is the very first time I as a Norwegian would think twice to visit an Islamic country. |
Yes, its not great being british in those parts of the world either, but now that I am taking my Danish girlfriend though turkey, iran, pak to india....the plans may have to change if it all gets worse! Poo.
------------------ http://colesyboy.tripod.com |
Dont worry lads, wont be any trouble there. Just respect their believes, life styles, culteres, etc.. I mean respect what make them "them". Middle East people are very friendly. If you take a one step towards them they will take 10 steps towards you.
Good Luck ------------------ ride safely ozhan u. '97 F650 www.ozhanu.com/gezi |
There is no way you can factually state that there “won’t be any trouble.” That is irresponsible and impossible to know. It seems a trend on this site to ignore reality.
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Quote:
I belive what Ozhanu is saying is that things are rarely as bad as they seem on TV and not to throw a good plan away just because of this. I don't think anyone actually thought he was offering a guarantee of safety. And I don't agree that people on this site ignore reality. If anything, they often have a much better view of the prevailing conditions in a country than your average journo. I've lived in Syria a couple of times and I would have absolutely no hesitation in travelling there again, even now. Nick |
People losing their minds and falling into anger in masses for some others to abuse and benefit from have happened before and will happen again until we really learn how to communicate and live together for the sake of human kind and the planet as a whole. Until then at least for my friends who are willing to take a journey at least through Turkey I can say that everything is not better or worse than it has always been and ever will be.
But I guarantee with all my heart and mind that you miss out a beautiful experience of geography and “friendly” culture if you hesitate not to realize such plans of travel to my country. This fear, anxiety and imagination are definitely worse than the facts. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you are planning to come and visit especially western Turkey. Happy rides cozcan [This message has been edited by cozcan (edited 06 February 2006).] [This message has been edited by cozcan (edited 06 February 2006).] |
She could allways pretend to be Swedish or something...
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Indu,
Like others have said, I'm sure you'll be fine. Please don't say 'the Islamic world' is attacking your embassies though. It's just a few nutters. Nobody said in the UK back in the day: 'the Catholic world has bombed the shopping centre of Manchester'! Matt |
Terje Rød Larsen, the UN's special envoy to the middle east said the following to NRK today(a Norwegian broadcaster) :
"The unrest stem from many different conflicts and the situation may get out of control. In many ways can the whole region now be compared with a keg of gun powder where the fuse is lit. I think the situation is more difficult, more complicated and more dangerous than it has been in many decades. The reason is that the many partial conflicts in the region - the Israel - Arabic conflict, the conflicts around Iran and the question of neucular weapons and the conflict between Syria and Lebanon. All of this must now be tied together around fundamental questions of value and attitudes which makes for a situation that may very easily come even more out of control than what we have seen the last few days." He didn't mention the conflicts in Irak and Afganistan, which I'm sure you could add to the whole mess. I'd think about following this conflict for a while and see where it is headed before making up my mind. It is my translation... I did my very best. |
Hi All,
If you dont stack your flag into people eyes, if you dont say "i am not agains the cartoons", if you dont behieve racist or fundamentalist in religion, no one will touch you. All I am saying is a little bit "respect" and "humanity". We are not politian, we are only traveller, that's it. We just go places to see the beauty not the ugliness. You cannot blame all the nations because of some fundamentalist, stupid, uneducated and uncivilised people. Both sides lads, both sides... Everything has both sides. And you only see where you are looking from. I dont wanna discuss anymore. These are just my thoughts and I'll travel there soon. ------------------ ozhan u. '97 F650 www.ozhanu.com/gezi |
Matt: I believe I wrote "the Islamic world has turned their anger to these small countries far up north".
However, I see your point. I didn't intend to lump everyone together. |
Hi, well they don't call it Adventure Motorcycling for nothing; this stuff has been going on for decades, it peeks and troughs every now and again. There must have been hundreds of travelling folk passed through these regions without mishap over the years.
In my opinion its about respect, good judgement and a spot of risk assessment. The bit about not flying flags is probably sound advice. PK |
Situation escalating.
Last report is that the Norwegian army base in Afganistan has been attacked and penetrated by an angry mob of demonstartors. Two soldiers injured by rock throwers. According to ROE (rules of engagement)fighter planes have been requested for flyowers to show "force". The largest newspaper in Iran has now started a cartoon contest of the Holocaust... Seems like someone really wants a conflict badly. That the middle east is rapidly becoming more unstable is evident, as explained by Terje Rød Larsen. Other issues relevant right now is Hamas having won the election and refusing to accept Israel. Danes and Norwegians just ain't too popular right now, but most likely it will settle and be forgotten in a while... hopefully. The last time Norway experienced anything like this was when Salmon Rushdie published his book Satanical Verses (I think that is what it was called). It put the muslim world in a frenzy... shortly after, Norway was broakering a piece treaty between the Israelis and Palestinians. Still, the Norwegian government does not advice its citizens to travel to the middle east (exept Syria and a couple of other places where it is particularly hot right now). I'd just stick to my plans and watch where this is all heading. If it gets much worse you can allways change your plans at later point. It would be sad to drop your plans now only to find that the situation turned to the better. [This message has been edited by Wheelie (edited 07 February 2006).] |
Another report just came in:
Afgan police shot live rounds at the demonstrators killing three-four and injuring about 20. The demonstrators were using rocks, handgranades, old russian automatic rifles, etc. Flyovers has started and warning shots has been fired. Demonstrators has barricaded themselves inside a building next to the base where they can keep carrying out attacks. The situation is higly volatile. Norwegian do gooders are being evacuated from Afganistan. Add some killing into this whole mess and things could easily escalate and spread. |
Just so that it is clear, what is going on in Meymaneh, Afganistan, is not just a demonstration. It is an armed attack.
The differance being that the attackers in Meymaneh are using AK-47s, RPGs (shoulder fired, rocket propelled grenades), hand grenades, and other asorted handguns against the ISAF group posted there. In addition to the typical rocks and molotov-cocktails which are commonly thrown in middle eastern demonstrations/conflicts. So this is an organized attack, and not a demonstration. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif ------------------ |
Its been good reading this thread, but Im keen on knowing if anyone has been through pakistan, iran and neighboring countries...cheers
------------------ http://colesyboy.tripod.com |
...by that I mean has anyone been through these countries RECENTLY.
My big problem is that my girlfriend in Danish.....now that the Danish embassy has split Pakistan, it aint looking too hot as a country to travel through to get to India. Imagine that your embassy had quit a country and that you were told that its pretty damn inhospitable towards your country folk. Can you see the dilema I'm in. It's all poo Brian ------------------ http://colesyboy.tripod.com |
16 killed in nigeria yesterday: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4728616.stm
This is northern nigeria (maiduguri) which is on our (and many others I presume) route down south. |
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We were in Pakistan for 2 months late last year. And we are Americans, so Pakistanis were supposed to have hated us for a while now...at least that was what the media said. But we had a wonderful time!
When we crossed into Pakistan from China, the first thing the head customs guy told me was the story about his son who was deported from the USA while going to university after 9-11. He had bad things to say about the American government. I thought this was not a good start to our trip, but five minutes later the same guy and I were having good conversation and he told me that I would have a great time in Pakistan....as an American I would be welcomed like anyone else. And what he said was true. We had some of the best hospitality in Peshawar, supposedly very "anti-American". And we told everyone that we were American. Of course we told people that we disagreed with the actions of our government too. This didn't stop the people from buying us tea and food and inviting us to a wedding. Pakistanis are great people but remember that BOTH sides of this cartoon issue (Islamic AND the West) are using this issue for their own selfish political gain. Be respectful of their culture and they will respect yours. Most of the world is smart enough to separate people from governments. ------------------ Dave www.mototrekker.com [This message has been edited by davidmc (edited 21 February 2006).] |
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Hi all
I was reading this thread for long, hasitating wether to put some words or not. and i can write a book on how to take care in places peopel hate me only for being an israeli when one is a victem to somebodyelses stupidety and ignorence. from my experience (as ignatieff and cozcan said here) when you meet the people on the street you will find 99% of them are great hosts, frendly and fair. Seems my dream of getting a norwigian passport only to be able to go through iran and pakistan hase collapsed http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif |
Well Yoni - you could always get a Swedish one...
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Well Indu, now I'm thinking of Marshall Islands passport, no one knows were it is and they have no mess with the rest of the world...
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Well, the Marshall Islands MIGHT be considered too much US territory, even though they got their independence in 1986...
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Well it looks pretty bad out there for the forseeable future for all Danes, so it looks like we'll be flying the bike from Turkey to India.....no real alternative at the moment. I would fancy riding through a country where my embassy had scarpered and advised all remaining countrymen to do the same.
Poo, more money to throw on the fire all through no fault of ours. ------------------ http://colesyboy.tripod.com |
After reading this board several times, my wife and I have decided to ride thru Syria rather than to ferry from Turkey to Cypress to Israel so we can get to Jordan, Petra and Egypt. FYI, we are in our mid 60s and will be riding a BMW modified Chinese Chang Jiang sidecar rig.
It seems to me that with all the positive things mentioned about the Syrian people and the fact that we will tend to avoid big cities, that our chances for an enjoyable ride far out weighs the possibility of a serious confrontation with crazy fundamentalists or angry mobs. This decision was supported by a French scholar who lived and worked in Syria for several years. Essentially she told me that the border crossings are terrible and crazy but the people more than make up for it. After all, this is adventure riding and its about the people we will meet and interact with, more than the cities we will visit and drive thru. Both my wife and I are comfortable with our decision. Should be there in mid November. ------------------ Soon to be on the road, Jack & Janet |
colesyboy!! I am from Pakistan and if you travel to Pakistan either through KKH or simply from any airport, I guarantee you safety. No one is going to say anything to your girlfriend if she is Danish. She is not the one who printed those cartoons. Trust me you won't have any trouble in pakistan except weather condition and adjustment with local food.
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Riz,
I suspect you are right, but imagine if you have your girlfriend on your bike, travelling through a land with no embassy for your girlfriend IF problems occur....ok, now imaging trying to convince your girlfriends family that its a good idea.....I feel I'm fighting an uphill battle. Thanks for the support & the email, it still gives me food for thought. Brian ------------------ http://colesyboy.tripod.com |
Last year, in spring, my girlfriend and I rode through Turkey, Syria and Jordan.
We both lost our hearts in Syria and felt cut short in time when we had to head back north... We have not felt or seen anything alike extremisme or what so ever. On the contrary, it is the first moslim coutry I saw sexy women walking hand in hand with fully covered other women. It seem they can respect each others level of religion they wich to live with. Hmmm, seems we have something to learn from them.... My girlfriend had never a problem walking around with short sleeves, talking to men & women,... We left our bikes with gear standing while we would walk around. Even left the keys on it most of the time... Never came across any problem. We felt much unsafer in Jordan and saw way more religous 'exremisme' there then in Syria. I just hope the people of syria can hang on to there spirits, since foreign goverments and organisations are trying to turn around the political forces in the country. I have to admit, it is not the democracy we think is so heavenly. But I never experienced more solidarity under people then over there. Once you have taken the time to really travel around the country you start to see and believe how we are told lies for political reasons. Go there, be yourself, show respect for the people and above all enjoy there hospitality and the great food. The military are without doubt deployed in the country, but are very nice folks to drink a cup of thee with aside the road. |
Respect
It is like bumerang or when you make a fire to keep you warm but can't control it with the help of wind, you burn yourself. Fire is good itself.
Syria is one of the safest place on earth to me. People very friendly. Never need to worry about it, unless if youı behave unpolite or opposite way. Something is very clear: be respectful. If you are respectful to their beliefs there is no problem at all. I don't understand at all why all westeners/westerners ask about security situation about Turkey, Syria, Iran, etc. Middle East is not like this itself. Nobody wants to realise Palestinian problem and the rights for them for instance and then comnplaining about Islam. Islam has the same roots like Christianity but prophets different only. To Islam if you don't believe in Jesus and he is a prophet you are not a Muslim. Same for Moses,ü Salomon and others. Respect is good and helps all the time. |
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