One question what millions have we been killing? Who? When and Where?

I hate to say this, but

Last warning -

Please keep this thread on point or it will be shut down.

No matter what country you are from, or what your political opinions are of other countries politics, please remember that we are all supposed to be friends here, and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

And that includes rants about the rightness or wrongness of ANY countries political positions or actions.

As someone who has lived for years on four different continents, in six countries, I could make some lengthy and pointed comments about spin, but I won't. Suffice it to say that no country is all right, or all wrong. And it very much depends on YOUR OPINION whether it's right or wrong. And who's to say you're right anyway - there's an enormous amount of lies and spin out there, from all countries, and NONE of us have a corner on the REAL truth. The only truth we can rely on is what we see with our own eyes - and that is coloured by our own experiences in life, and where and how we were raised.

So please, let's keep the political rants and attempts to convert others to our way of thinking out of here. If you want to do that, fine, but please do it over a in a pub somewhere interesting.

The question here for us as motorcycle travellers is in essence:

-How to deal with the question of displaying our flags on our bikes - bad idea, or good idea?

-How do we deal with different nationalities opinions of us, good or bad?

-Do we pretend to be from another country if necessary, or just keep a low profile?

-Do we need to AVOID some countries simply BECAUSE of our nationality?


The obvious one, was it right for the scum (you can tell my opinion here) to run GlobalGS off the road, or pile crap on his seat, is easy.

I don't think anyone here would abuse anyone from any country if they were travelling through their own country, regardless of politics, so let's have some respect for others opinions and sensibilities here.

thanks!

Grant

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I hate to say I told you so, but I did. And many of you jumped on my case on another thread about the danger. Travel for Americans is getting more dangerous. We weren’t very popular before Bushies but not it is much worse. Flag waivers are silly anyway.

What oil should I use ?

Would that be for high performance, or long change intervals, John? And on your antedeluvian beemerrunforeveris, or something really pretty and covered in nice shiny plastic?

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

GlobalGS Started this topic with the following words.......
"I don't want to start a huge political rant but...."

uh... well
Just as on the road, things doesent always go as we plan :-)


[This message has been edited by Dizzie (edited 02 February 2005).]

__________________
Dizzie

Always use sunscreen.

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Brooklyn Dakar
http://motorcycleramblings.blogspot.com/

__________________
Prevously known as JSherm
My blog: http://www.motorcycleramblings.com/
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/sherman/ I will up date this soon, really Grant, I will....
"This is the story of America. Everybody's doing what they think they're supposed to do." J Kerouac
"Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him" OW Kenobi

I think those putting pieces on the bike seat wouldn´t go further in violence, at least in France where I live, people can be childish but most have limits!
Just bark them off or clean the seat.
I get ran off the road each day here, ever seen french driving!?
Maybe as a more disciplinated american you feel targeted personally, when you shouldn´t.

I´ll put a horizons flag on my bike to "represent" this great forum.

Matt



[This message has been edited by Susan (edited 13 February 2005).]

As far as getting run off the road is concerned, IMHO it has nothing to do with your nationality, your governments foreign policy initiatives or what stickers you do or don't have stuck on your bike... There are 2 reasons for getting knocked of you bike

1. You're on a bike (no sh*t Sherlock)

and directly tied in with this

2. The moron who hits you is in a car/truck/bus whatever on 4+ wheels and hence feels morally obliged to behave like he/she is blind/stupid/ignorant. IMHO, 99.2437819% (note precise statistics) of car drivers gain their car-license by sending off 5 vouchers from the back of breakfast cereal packs and claiming their free driving license.

ChrisB

PS. I have to agree with Mr Scott above: Maybe the allegedly "offensive" Stars and Strips GlobalGS refers to was more prominent than just one small sticker among many stickers...

PPs. As GlobalGS's handle is includes GS, possibly he rides that famous German marque. Possibly the merde-culprit had a dislike for BMWs rather than American flags?

I have an equal loathing for Dubbya and BMW. Check my site for my world tour of Motor mechanics/ welders... (Grant and others: Hint, this is a wind up, not the prompt for another mass debate on the pros and cons of Beemers/ how I was just unlucky/ how I didn't look after Goaty)

------------------
TheBrightStuffDotCom

__________________

Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Two important things to remember:
1)you can't get pregnant (or get someone else pregnant) the first time you have sex;

2)Wherever you go, there you are.

I can't claim credit for either of those life-rules, but I sure do live by 'em.

Flags schmags

Oh well, you can buy one of these instead:
AMTechnology;


PS I have nothing against BMW, mercy!

Matt

Interesting thread all. Some good tips.

For our part we had 2 US reg Defender 110s on a trip from London to Cape Town last year. We were nervous about the licence plates as they say 'COLORADO' on them. Also when we got our carnet we were informed by the CAA that it was a 'legal requirement' to place the USA sticker on the rear of the cars. I didn't have much problem with this, but our travelling companions didn't want to put he USA stickers on. So we didn't, and no one complained. No one even seemed to notice.

In North Africa we often got asked about Bush at checkpoints. We learned that mentioning Arnold Schwarznegger who had just become governer usually got a laugh and a thumbs up. We would just explain that Bush was an idiot, and they understood. We got no ill will.

In the souk in Marrakesh we ran into a local who had a pin on his shirt with a pic of Bush, a line through him and the words 'International Terroist' underneath. I thought it was great and asked where I could buy one. That got a friendly response and initiated a discussion about politics (though I was never able to buy a pin).

I think groups in cars have the advantage over singles on motocycles because we could always leave someone to watch the cars.

Lastly, we did claim to be Canadian at one point. Never to officials, but to a very unfriendly guide at the Mauritanian border who was trying to get more money out of us for his services. In principle I can understand the objection that Canadians have to this. But travelling in forein lands can sometimes be intimidating, and angry people can be as well. If the political positions were reversed, I wonder how many Canadians would claim to be from the US.

My view there may well be in the minority. I am British, but have never lived there. I grew up in RSA and USA, and have never had a very patriotic feeling for anything. It's not that I feel equally comfortable anywhere, it's that I feel equally uncomfortable everywhere. I don't feel very safe in the US at the moment, and that was brought home by US immigration when I returned after the trip. They interrogated me at the Atlanta airport for an hour, asking what crime I had committed that I had to 'run through Africa' to escape. They were more threatening and unfriendly than any of the immigration officials I had dealt with in Africa, including places like DRC.

I think it has been said before: keep a low profile, always be friendly and be very patient.

cheers

Graham
www.africaoverland.org

__________________
Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland

The white flag needs to be raised for this thread.

------------------
Brooklyn Dakar
http://motorcycleramblings.blogspot.com/

__________________
Prevously known as JSherm
My blog: http://www.motorcycleramblings.com/
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/sherman/ I will up date this soon, really Grant, I will....
"This is the story of America. Everybody's doing what they think they're supposed to do." J Kerouac
"Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him" OW Kenobi

Agreed - this thread is now closed. Thanks to all for the general spirit of tolerance and helpfulness.

Some really good quotes:

And last but not least,

Susan & Grant

P.S. You can get Horizons Unlimited stickers at your next HU Travellers Meeting, and also continue the conversation in person if so inclined.


[This message has been edited by Susan (edited 08 February 2005).]

__________________
Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com