Cheap rider or is that me

[travelHK]

I just met with some rider and one more time I am surpised to see how cheap some of us are, when I mean cheap I don't mean that you stay in inexpensive hotel or eat in small dive, I mean that I am always surprise to see guys riding in the rainny season with tire which have no thread left , biker with almost no break pad or sproket looking like they are on diet, I am surprised to meet with guys riding Off road with no boots because they cost too much to thier opinion or guys not seeing anything at night because thier wind shield is too scratch, I am not for over spending but is all that been cheap or what.

[quastdog]

Hendi:
I just had to reply to this, before you came to your senses and erased this post. I can relate, but I don't think I have that anger yet!

I need to know which was the final indignation, got you to write what you did? I mean, it can´t be the scratched windshield!

Just curious, and waiting to see where this one goes.

[mollydog]

I am with Hendi on this one. I am a cheap bastard about some things for sure....but basic safety is where I draw the line. Without the gear or decent bike...I just won't ride.

I've seen some of the young guys at the HUBB meetings doing RTW rides running on some pretty questionable equipment. I totally understand they are on a tight budget....but hey, maybe they could reach out to other HUBB members here and ask for help!?? Worth a try, anyway.

Tires? Boots? Chain? Brake pads? Face shield? Many of us have a few spares in the garage (in the US at least) and could happily help out a RTW guy coming through our area. I know I would do what I could. In fact I've got probably one of each of the above items.

Riding off road without boots is simply insane.
In the two groups I ride with....one for 20 years...the other for about 7 years...anyone who shows up on either a sub standard, unsafe bike in serious need of work....or ridiculous riding gear...well, these guys are not asked back on our rides. We know better. We all have seen what can happen.

There used to be a guy that would show up for rides wearing Tennis shoes. We named him. Tennis Shoe Rob. Sadly, Rob took his own life about 7 years ago while on a Death Valley Ride. He purposely rode his Ninja ZX-12 off the road at over 160 mph.....at night...not wearing a helmet. Funny, he never hurt his foot on all the rides in Tennis Shoes.

I'm hoping boot-less riders will check out how expensive surgery is these days.
I broke my leg (compound fracture of Tibia/Fibula) in 1997. I hit an Armco barrier then flew over the Armco and free fell 200 ft into a creek bed. Besides the Tibia, I broke 4 ribs, ankle (other leg), concussion, and bruised my heart...which caused perio-carditis a year later(another operation). Things were much cheaper then...after six operations over two years (8 months of PT) total cost was right about $200,000 usd. Now it would be close to a million. Yep, ONE MILLION DOLLARS...this according to my hospital administrator friend....who should know. Intensive Care is the most outrageous cost. My ten days there was $10,000 in '97....nowadays it would be as much as $100,000. Robbery, plain and simple.

So anyone who thnks good boots are expensive should check out my little
report. Good boots are the cheapest insurance you could ever buy!

Patrick

[Caminando]

Sorry to hear of your accident and the beating you were given over costs. You are welcome to come and live in the European Union where such uncivilised and brutal behaviour on medical bills does not happen.

Good roads!

[travelHK]

Hi quastdog, I have no special indignation but I have been riding bikes for years and when I see people been cheap with thier bike or gear I feel bad for them , I am not even talking about the idiot riding sport bike on speedo with no helemet ( I live in Florida), I went down few time while riding and the right gear help you get up faster , regarding the bike a $90 tire or a $20 brake pad seems to be a great deal compare to repare on you or the bike.

[quastdog]

I just want to get this off my chest while we're still venting here.

The reading list sucks in the book exchanges here in SA. I can't read one more trashy murder/mayhem/mystery, I'm tired of wading through stacks of romance nonsense. Thankfully it seems, the selfhelp folks are staying at home, or at least leaving their books at home.

I want more! I need something with some meat to it. I'm not talking Shakespear here.

I want more comedy. Especially the guys write about how nuts el presidente de los EE.UU. is. I want more history, literature, classics. Good contemporary authors (excluding John Grisham - read too many now) writing decent suspense.

Just think how many books we, er you, have at home. We'll either throw them out, or get pennies on the dollar if someone ever buys them back. Instead, you could be spreading stimulating reading material throughout the known world.

As to that cheap thing. Defining cheap - now that's the hard part. One man's cheap...another man's luxuries!

[MotoEdde]

I do agree with making sure that certain lines are drawn, relative to safety, BUT cheap riders aren't bad guys...and I'm one of them.

I DON'T buy into the marketing hype that I need aluminum cans, waterproof bags from North Face(or some similar supplier), GS's etc. to be safely RTWing...

By the time you buy ALL the gear, you'll have no $$s for why you chose to do this trip.

Riding in North America/EU is completely different than riding in some of these less developed countries. Our assumptions and how we ride in those areas will be different. I am NOT conservative in riding in these areas because I may not get another chance again...

SO I take risks others may not take, because I didn't make a huge investment in my equipment, and can simply walk away...


Just another approach to riding...

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by quastdog

I want more comedy. Especially the guys write about how nuts el presidente de los EE.UU. is. I want more history, literature, classics. Good contemporary authors (excluding John Grisham - read too many now) writing decent suspense.

Try English Books stores or English sections in public libraries. B.A. has a few. Popular hostals/hotels always a great source for books too.

Dozens of books outlining the last seven years of the Bush debacle. The great ones will be written when Bush, Cheney, Rove, and about 20 other key players (like Addington, Libby, Delay, Gonzales) are all behind bars, along with about 10 key Congress folk who are all complicit in the many crimes they have commited against the USA and the world.

Some very well informed commentators on the Bush legacy are on line.Not all directly about Bush....but many link the subject to our current admin. as the source/cause for all kinds of situations worldwide...and provide good documentation.

Guys like Seymour Hirsch (New Yorker), Noam Chomsky, Jeremy Skahill (book on Blackwater Security), and one of my favorites, Robert Fisk. Fisk is a Brit who has lived in Lebanon for 30 years and probably has more up close and personal knowledge about the middle east than 50 Fox News pundits and so called experts. Also has great insight into the Bush Admin. and its rise to power. There are dozens of others, just scratching the surface here.

In the meantime, go for re-reads of the classics....
Gabriel Marquez's "One Hundred Years of Solitude" is a great read...again.
I read it while in Colombia in 1975.

Likewise, a favorite from my youth....Henry Miller. Tropic of Cancer &
Capricorn, Lexus, Nexus, Plexus, were my favs. I worked on a film about Miller
when he was living, hung out with him when he was in his 80's and chasing his
20 something Japanese wife around the house naked. Miller is a crack up. Henry's son, Tony, and I went to school together, so I met Henry the first time in about 1965. Miller was an avid bicycle rider and could have been a motorcyclist if given the chance. He loved two wheels as much as sex!

Re-read Doris Lessing, she just one the 2007 Nobel Prize for lit. (about 40 years overdue). Lawernce Durrell (Alexandria Quartet), Jack Kerouac, Herman Hesse, Carson McCullers, and dozens of others I can't recall. (too many concussions). If you're near Bariloche still, plenty of sources there if you takl to the right people.

Cheers,

Patrick

[davidmc]

Good gear is very important in the US, Western Europe or Aust/NZ, but if you are riding in developing countries its MANDATORY. Most developing countries have no ambulance service whatsoever and with a bad crash in a remote area you are totally on your own. Think about how you are going to arrange transportation and medical treatment when you have broken bones and are shaken up or half conscious.

And let me tell you, I am speaking from firsthand experience here. My quality gear (BMW) saved me twice in developing countries from crashes. Having cheap equipment versus high quality equipment could literally mean the difference between life and death.

If you can't afford high quality gear, ask yourself if you can really afford the consequences of riding without it?

[Bernard]

The judgement " Cheap rider" That would be you.
The rider with the worn tyre - That would be him.

[mustaphapint]

Some of the comments here are typical "do-gooder" "you must be protected from yourself" type of mentality.
If a rider chooses to ride with bald tyres or ineffective brakes etc then he is a danger to other road users and should be stopped.
But if a rider chooses to ride without a helmet, or boots or gloves then that is his risk to take and what right do others have to criticise him for taking it.
We all have a line at which we draw for our own safety. Motorcycling is a dangerous activity and some of us feel more comfortable with full safety gear and others make do with less. That is their choice. Some people choose not to ride motorbikes at all as they consider them too dangerous.
If I choose to ride across India in shorts and helmetless that is a risk I have chosen to make. What right does someone have to say I shouldn't do it or I am a cheapskate just because their level of risk determines they always wear full leathers and body armour.
Someone else higher up in the food chain might well decide that riding motorbikes is too much of a risk and we must be all protected from ourselves by being prevented from doing it.
I fully accept that there should be laws to prevent us or reduce the risk of us harming others but there should be a basic right for us to choose the level of personal risk we are prepared to take. If we give up the belief to that right then we eventually risk losing the right to enjoy the pastime we love so much.

[travelHK]

Sorry for the misunderstandings guys , I travel all arround the world and for me saving money on tires , brake pad or safety gear is not very smart at all , no need to have a GS to go travel but any rider or bike should be fully equiped to my opinion . I come from France and now live in the US for 17 years and the price of the medical bill is not what make me wear my helmet or change my tires on time ( for me cheap or stupid Hurt) . Actually in the US we are lucky enough to have fairly inexpensive moto gear . I met few rider which will not try to save anymore money by streching the use of tire or other, I myself think that its cheaper to maintain your gear and bike and they will carry you further that been cheap at first .

[Dan 23]

Quastdog - you're in luck with the books. You're in Argentina, right? Great bookshop in BA - Walrus Books, av Estados Unidos 617, near the intersection of Peru, in San Telmo, open Tuesday to Sunday from 10 to 8. Just happens to be round the corner from The Gibraltar, my favourite BA pop shop.

Maybe we should start a separate thread - non pulp fiction? Decent English language bookshops in Latin America? There's another intelligent oasis in Quito - the surprisingly-named Confederate Books, in the Mariscal, corner of Calama and Juan Leon Mera, has an amazing selection of proper grown-up literature rather than cloying Grisham garbage. Coincidentally, it's also coveniently close to another favourite boozer, The Turtle's Head...

Suerte, Dan

PS I guess the long term alternative to the quality english book shortage is for us all to learn proper Castellano - never a shortage of smart Spanish bookstores...

[Bernard]

Why do you let yourself be troubled by these things? They have nothing to do with you and are beyond your control anyhow.
Here's what I do.
I search out things that make me feel good rather than things that make me feel bad.
I find this to be an effective way of helping others.

[Caminando]

Originally Posted by harleyrider

Some of the comments here are typical "do-gooder" "you must be protected from yourself" type of mentality.
If a rider chooses to ride with bald tyres or ineffective brakes etc then he is a danger to other road users and should be stopped.
But if a rider chooses to ride without a helmet, or boots or gloves then that is his risk to take and what right do others have to criticise him for taking it.
We all have a line at which we draw for our own safety. Motorcycling is a dangerous activity and some of us feel more comfortable with full safety gear and others make do with less. That is their choice. Some people choose not to ride motorbikes at all as they consider them too dangerous.
If I choose to ride across India in shorts and helmetless that is a risk I have chosen to make. What right does someone have to say I shouldn't do it or I am a cheapskate just because their level of risk determines they always wear full leathers and body armour.
Someone else higher up in the food chain might well decide that riding motorbikes is too much of a risk and we must be all protected from ourselves by being prevented from doing it.
I fully accept that there should be laws to prevent us or reduce the risk of us harming others but there should be a basic right for us to choose the level of personal risk we are prepared to take. If we give up the belief to that right then we eventually risk losing the right to enjoy the pastime we love so much.

You want to ride without a helmet? You want to ride a bike in India? I think Darwin's theories will apply to you and your genes - you'll be extinct PDQ, and will join the dinosaurs!