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  #16  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endurin View Post
  • if there's no stomach ulsers etc. then, aspirin 100-300 mg/daily is recommended for men over 40; all the time, Dakar rally included. it is beleived to postpone heart attacs, you know.
I'd question the advice to take anything other than water on a continuous basis...
While a product may 'postpone heart attacs' it could lead to liver damage for instance... If you do take anything other than water on a daly basis .. see your doctor! A better, more varied diet might be a better solution... I always vary my consumption ... Tooehys Old .. Coopers Light .. etc ...

Oh and a bit of exercise... think that is better overall for the body/mind than any consumed/injected drug.
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  #17  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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Oh and a bit of exercise... think that is better overall for the body/mind than any consumed/injected drug.
I totally agree, there are only one pill that should taken every day and only if you are a girl
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  #18  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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It does appear according to 'UK Eurosport' that the organisation let him down, but after watching the way car and trucks are driving 'blind' through the dust it will unfortunatly be sooner rather than later that they hit, injure or kill a motorcycle competitor. In 2006 when I followed the rally in Africa I was overtaken on the tarmac by a Kamaz support vehicle, I tucked in behind him and I reached speeds of 80 mph, upon realising the danger I 'backed off' and was astounded that the Kamaz still maintained these speeds through built-up areas, the draft from this monster could easily have 'sucked' a human from the roadside beneath its wheels. At an overnight stop many of the british m/c competitors were telling tales of close misses with cars but especially the trucks. We all know its racing, but you don't race to run the risk of getting run down or side swiped by a car or truck, incidently ex bike turned car competitors like Alfie Cox, Stephane Peterhansel and Thierry Magnaldi show great respect for the bikes.
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  #19  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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From what i heard from police forces here is that even if the help would reached the same day(two hours later)he would have been dead anyway.It looks he stops as he felt bad.Maybe he took some kind of chemical booster.....and body said....no thanks?
A second biker was rescued very near his position and he had to hear the truck if still allive.
I wouldn´t blame so fast no one.If you know those areas,the heat,the constant limit exhausting excercise!
To many ifs.Hard to say.First rally.Previous conditions?
He knew high risks are in.
I choose dieing there as been hit by a taxi in the city!!!!!!
My two cents
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  #20  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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An idea for the DAKAR RALLY

We sometimes ride the bush, the deserts, I remember it being very rough very isolated, sometimes very scary.... and I have often wondered our fate if we were injured or had an unexpected medical emergency, or if both bikes broke and we ran out of water.

I, too, share the point of view, already expressed here, that I would rather check out doing what I loved than doing the routine.

But, the death of French rider Pascal Terry might have been prevented if Dakar officials provided safe flares that are color coded to each competitor.

If anyone, even another competitor ... spots a red flare, for example, it should be made obligatory to render assistance.

Our hearts reach out to the family and friends of Pascal Terry and to all who represent the Dakar Argentina-Chile 09.

Ed and Elisa

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  #21  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
….. but after watching the way car and trucks are driving 'blind' through the dust it will unfortunatly be sooner rather than later that they hit, injure or kill a motorcycle competitor..
It’s not failsafe but the Sentinel-system helps a bit:

For more info: YouTube - DAKAR -4: On the trace

In Africa they usually had a lot more space, now they drive a lot on narrow tracks and the risks are higher.
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  #22  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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Changing the subject - would you consider opening another thread in the appropriate section explaining how we might ride some of this route? Watching the Dakar on Eurosport has really opened my eyes to the amazing territory that is this part of the world but a lot of it seems to be private land.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCK_973 View Post
From what i heard from police forces here is that even if the help would reached the same day(two hours later)he would have been dead anyway.It looks he stops as he felt bad.Maybe he took some kind of chemical booster.....and body said....no thanks?
A second biker was rescued very near his position and he had to hear the truck if still allive.
I wouldn´t blame so fast no one.If you know those areas,the heat,the constant limit exhausting excercise!
To many ifs.Hard to say.First rally.Previous conditions?
He knew high risks are in.
I choose dieing there as been hit by a taxi in the city!!!!!!
My two cents
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  #23  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
It’s not failsafe but the Sentinel-system helps a bit:

For more info: YouTube - DAKAR -4: On the trace

In Africa they usually had a lot more space, now they drive a lot on narrow tracks and the risks are higher.

Sentinel helps a bit..........Only when the approaching vehicle decides to activate it, and often they don't.

If they are driving blind what benefit is it to the competitor already in the 'dust'? He may just get one last chance to scream 'Oh Fcuk' before getting mowed down.

The risks, even in africa have been high, and by your own admission state that on this rally the tracks are narrower and the risks are higher. This should not be the case. I am 'Pro' bikes and definately NOT anti car or truck, but surely commonsense should prevail. Even experienced middle order riders have expressed concern, so what must it be like at the back of the motorcycle pack being charged down firstly by the quickest cars, and to top it off the trucks as well?

It would be nice to see the bikes run a day ahead of the rest, but due to the logistics of running such an event would probably be unworkable mainly due to cost.
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Last edited by palace15; 9 Jan 2009 at 13:42.
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  #24  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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not being in possession of all the facts, I won't comment on the poor man's death & certainly wouldn't apportion blame.

However I do consider the delay in finding him to be unnacceptable & there are obviously some gross disfontionements within the organisation here.

a couple of days ago Jean- le-Cam capsized his boat. The sarsat beacon was instantly activated & within minutes (ie less than an hour) a search & rescue operation was being organised. Jean Le Cam was about 5000nm (thats over 9000km!) from the vendee globe race headquarters.

(as an aside he was rapidly located by the Chilien, i think, airforce & rescued by a fellow compettitor)

My point is, that the technology exists & works to alert the race organisation of a problem & rapidly locate the source. What went wrong with their systems?

I think that is the question that they should be asking, rather than trying to approtion blame.

My thoughts & prayers go out to his family.
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  #25  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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It is so easy to become dehydrated, just the fact that you are breathing heavily through your mouth--rather than your nose--in hot climes increases the moisture loss. Simon Pavey (who's a Dakar'09 competitor) stresses the importance of hydration on his offroad courses and reckons there's a huge impact on the brain's decision making at just 5% under-hydration.

Too much water washes out the body's electrolytes, which is why sportspeople normally drink isotonic drinks. Studies have shown, however, that simple sugar/salt/water mixes are just as effective as complex glucose/electrolyte products.

Asprin (or in the old days the bark of the willow tree) is one of nature's miracle drugs. My wife feeds me with 75mg of Asprin every morning (one 300mg tablet cut in four). Any more than this and you run the risk of stomach ulcers.

Tim
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  #26  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
Sentinel helps a bit..........Only when the approaching vehicle decides to activate it, and often they don't.

If they are driving blind what benefit is it to the competitor already in the 'dust'? He may just get one last chance to scream 'Oh Fcuk' before getting mowed down.
Yes, as I said, the system is not failsafe. It makes it less risky and hopefully the system will be better over time, but no system is better then the users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
The risks, even in africa have been high, and by your own admission state that on this rally the tracks are narrower and the risks are higher. This should not be the case. I am 'Pro' bikes and definately NOT anti car or truck, but surely commonsense should prevail. Even experienced middle order riders have expressed concern, so what must it be like at the back of the motorcycle pack being charged down firstly by the quickest cars, and to top it off the trucks as well?
It must be a nightmare!
As far as I know there hasn’t been any serious accidents related to this yet. There have been a couple of times where cars have crashed into fallen motorbikes. But as far as I know no people has been injured because of this.
Of course this is not the way it should be, they need more space! Do they drive trucks and motorbikes at the same time on a RR-competition?

But personally I’m not a fan of the “new” Dakar-rally, it has transformed into a crowded track-race instead of a huge open desert-race.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
It would be nice to see the bikes run a day ahead of the rest, but due to the logistics of running such an event would probably be unworkable mainly due to cost.
One thing is cost, but a lot of the trucks are also supply-vehicles for both cars and bikes.
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  #27  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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hydration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
It is so easy to become dehydrated, just the fact that you are breathing heavily through your mouth--rather than your nose--in hot climes increases the moisture loss. Simon Pavey (who's a Dakar'09 competitor) stresses the importance of hydration on his offroad courses and reckons there's a huge impact on the brain's decision making at just 5% under-hydration.

Too much water washes out the body's electrolytes, which is why sportspeople normally drink isotonic drinks. Studies have shown, however, that simple sugar/salt/water mixes are just as effective as complex glucose/electrolyte products.

Asprin (or in the old days the bark of the willow tree) is one of nature's miracle drugs. My wife feeds me with 75mg of Asprin every morning (one 300mg tablet cut in four). Any more than this and you run the risk of stomach ulcers.

Tim
For further information on this subject if anyone is interested, what Tim says above is entirely correct.
I could write you an essay but just to say, if you are mixing your own drink, use fruit sugar for the sugar element (fructose) you can buy it in the supermarket, so it's no fag to find it. It's longer chain and therefore effective for longer and prevents "highs and lows".
Regarding brought drinks, my wife is a state registered dietician (not a "nutritionalist" whatever that is?) and in the survey she conducted for the NHS, lucozade sport is the most effective of ALL the energy drinks! Fact! But it should be consumed 50/50 with water, not relied upon on it's own.
Hope this helps if anyone cares.
If you feel thirsty, it's too late, buy a "camelback" type drink system, Kriega is best, with best bladder and insulation.
Happy drinking (don't fill her with casablanca , it's not what she's for).
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  #28  
Old 11 Jan 2009
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Aspirin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
It is so easy to become dehydrated, just the fact that you are breathing heavily through your mouth--rather than your nose--in hot climes increases the moisture loss. Simon Pavey (who's a Dakar'09 competitor) stresses the importance of hydration on his offroad courses and reckons there's a huge impact on the brain's decision making at just 5% under-hydration.

Too much water washes out the body's electrolytes, which is why sportspeople normally drink isotonic drinks. Studies have shown, however, that simple sugar/salt/water mixes are just as effective as complex glucose/electrolyte products.

Asprin (or in the old days the bark of the willow tree) is one of nature's miracle drugs. My wife feeds me with 75mg of Asprin every morning (one 300mg tablet cut in four). Any more than this and you run the risk of stomach ulcers.

Tim
You are correct re quantity of aspirin and the recommended level is 88mg which i understand you can buy in Canada over the counter but the standard in OZ is 100mg. In the 60's and 70's if you worked in extremely hot environments you were issued with salt tablets and the practice continues today in many ME counties. Bill
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  #29  
Old 11 Jan 2009
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This very sad thread has given me a little new knowledge on dehydration, thanks.

But, so what is best for the regular bike traveler? I am sure we have all been there, you are dressed in your full bike gear, the compromise gear you have for your trip whether it is cold or hot... but today it is a very hot day, 38/40C and you are stuck at a border in the sunlight with the official giving you some hassle and wanting a 'gift', you are getting very frustrated and with the heat you are sweating heavily... you finally sort things out and are on your way again, but the going is very tough and you are having to work hard to keep your heavy bike upright and heading in the right direction... you are still sweating heavily in your bike gear making slow progress through the sand and dirt tracks for several hours.

You now feel drained and are drinking water but it doesn't seem to refresh you as normal and you are in the middle of nowhere with no Lucozaid Sport around!

So, what would be best??? add sugar to your water? try to get some fruit juice? or go for a Coke sugar boast and some water?
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Last edited by Billy Bunter; 11 Jan 2009 at 14:23. Reason: spelling
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  #30  
Old 11 Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by Billy Bunter View Post
You now feel drained and are drinking water but it doesn't seem to refresh you as normal and you are in the middle of nowhere
STOP. Rest. Don't pushg on to find whatever .. you need time to regain your normal ballance. Drink water .. with sugar and salt .... wait for your body. You have gone past your limit .. 'hit the wall' ... Rest, the sooner you recognise when you get near your limit and back off the better. If you try and push on the recovery times will be longer .. and during the 'push on' you will not be thinking straight .. so increaed risk of crashing ...
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