Carnet de Passages en Douanes - List of countries where it is Required
 

A new page entry has been added:

[drupal=2123]Carnet de Passages en Douanes - List of countries where it is Required[/drupal]

Good initiative
 

Thanks Beddhist

I think this is an excellent initiative, but the African section will definately be extremely controversial! I expect there will be much heated debate on this thread shortly.

I can confirm from personal experience that it is possible to enter Burundi, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Malawi, Senegal (vehicle over 5 years), Tanzania, Togo and Uganda without a carnet.

There are also reports that most of the other African countries on the list (with the possible exceptions of Egypt and the South African Customs Union) can also be crossed without a carnet.

cheers

Carnet and East Timor
 

Ok, just to add to the confusion.

As far as i know, East Timor is not part of the Carnet system, however f you do what i did and try and enter the country without a Carnet (by shipping from Darwin) then you will spend days getting access to your bike and i ended up paying a deposit to the customs office of about $350US (in the form of a Timorese bank cheque). This was because i was effectively importing and exporting the bike ... i got the deposit back once i was back in Australia with the bike.

So, the reason is that East Timor was under occupation by Indonesia, which is part of the Carnet system. So if you go to East Timor and you have a Carnet then no problem.

I think it is similar is many places where the Carnet might just smooth the way ... sure you might get through with out it ... but it could take days of negotiation.

A little post-script to this story is that i recently went back for a visit ... and the customs building had been burnt down in the last period of riots and unrest ... so i took a photo of the pigs living in the ruins.

Hope it is useful to someone.

Zephyr

New Zealand - Not required, but recomended. You could pay duties otherwise (which will be refunded when you leave).

Cheers.

fire up the discussion i say...
You don't NEED a carnet in south africa (union)
Also, Sudan is split. South sudan does not use the carnet, northern sudan does.

My two cents worth
 

Good idea with the list and of course there will be guys like me writing in saying otherwise, not disputting it just giving my experience, I went to these countries without a carnet, recently.
South Africa, Botswanna, Mozambique, Malawi, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Iran. So thats all WITHOUT carnet. Again just for info.

Cheers

Robbo

NZ: we can discuss whether or not to recommend a carnet until the cows come home. There is no import duty any more, only GST (currently 13% ? on current value plus shipping). The procedure is said to be simple and efficient. I would say to recommend a carnet would have to mean a justification for spending the money on obtaining one just for NZ and I don't see that, given that you have to deposit even more money for the carnet plus you have the paperwork and expense. If you already have one, of course you would use it.

Sudan: very interesting. What happens then if you enter in the South without getting the carnet stamped and want to leave in the North? If your carnet got stamped in the North, can you get it stamped out in the South?

Robbo: consensus seems to be that Iran is impossible without carnet. How did you get in? Do you think anybody could do it at any border point? We entered Yemen at two different border crossings from Oman and the carnet was demanded at both. How did you get in without?

I've never been to Africa (apart from Maroc). Can others shed more light on the situation, especially SA customs union?

Hi Guys, 2 years ago I rode from Scotland to SA and a carnet was asked for at the borders of Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Zambia and Zimbabwe. In Mozambique you have to buy a government issued permit and also local insurance as they do not recognise foreign issued carnets or a yellow card. SA, Botswana and Namibia, 1 stamp in and 1 out of their economic zone. I am sure that it may have been possible to fiddle the system but I am also sure that buying a carnet made life a lot easier and I suspect a lot cheaper than trying to bribe your way across borders. Ride safe, Mike.

Carnet issues
 

We`ve just ridden the length of the Americas without a carnet, no probs. In New Zealand customs would`nt let me have the bike for five days! I had to have an interview to sort out the value, and therefore work out how much gst they would charge me. I got the money to them straight away but did`nt get it back for one and half months after we`d left!!!
I had the Carnet posted to me for Ozz, which was a breeze and now in Malaysia, again easy with it.
Broken down again, engine management sensor, 11150gs, beautiful place to be stuck thought!
www.pooleglobaltrek.com
Regards Pooley.

Carnets in West Africa
 

I'm not sure I'd travel without one any more. The carnet insurance doesn't have to cost the earth and the only tricky bit is getting the bank guarantee, mostly because it sometimes takes time to find out which department of your bank deals with them.

Senegal requires it. I hear it's possible to get a three day pass, but also hear that this can be mega hassle if customs are in the mood for 'fun'. Once at Diama, I came across a camper van which had been waiting for two days for customs to relent on the three day pass - they were determined not to.

Mauritania has its own local 'carnet' system, which is not expensive. They want to see yours if you have it.

Gambia asks for it, partly due to pique at Senegal's strong carnet policy. I don't think it's strictly required though. But given that The Gambia is surrounded by Senegal, you'll probably have one anyway.

Bissau asks for it. Don't know if you can get away without one.

I don't know the Mali status, I just used mine anyway and ripped through cutoms and police in about ten minutes.

Get a carnet unless you are on the tightest budget. Travel to see countries, not to sit on borders for days on end in extreme circumstances, arguing the toss and getting ripped off.

Going by the various tales that are around, on a major trip it could in extreme circumstances, coupled with a lot of bad luck, end up more cost effective to get a carnet than spending loads on paying 'fees' to get around not having one. Much depends on who is on duty at a given border on the day you turn up.

Borders often take minutes if you have a carnet and don't arrive at a busy time.

Just my view, neither right or wrong, just a view.

Craig

Thought the African section might get some comment!

Being Africa, there are no right or wrong answers here, but for West Africa, I am not really sure a carnet is worth the hassle. I have made it down to Togo to date (heading south) without a carnet. Whilst some border crossings initially ask you for a carnet, they will generally give in and allow you in with only a laissez passer or temporary permit.

The only real concern re the west coast route is South Africa, as there are reports that every other country (including Senegal) will let you in without one.

Agreed it might be a little more hassle, but if you consider the slight additional hassle at the border against the cost of the deposit or carnet insurance, I think it will generally work out much cheaper without a carnet.

Only my 2c worth.

cheers

age of your bike
 

Does the age of your bike make any difference for needing a carnet? I'm planning to go through Syria and Jordan next year on a 28 year old suzuki wich is only worth a lot to me.

Groeten

I entered both Jordan and Syria in Dec 05 without a carnet. I understand that this is still possible, however I did see Maja's post a little earlier on this thread that suggests they may now require a carnet. If anyone has been in recently can you please confirm this?

cheers

Syria, Jordan and Cyprus
 

Englishman traveling on a Belgium registered bike, 17 year old Honda AT

Just back from Syria, Jordan and Northern Cyprus (Nov 08) and I DIDNT need a carnet, however I did need to pay local customs temporary import tax and buy local insurance. Funny enough Cyprus was the most frustrating and complicated, simply because the customs girl didn’t know what to do…

I can look up the costs if required…

Great countries and I fully recommend them… very bike friendly even though they don’t have a bike culture.

Salut
Matt

Hello Matt,

It sounds like you enjoyed yourself.

I'm interested in what the costs for entering Syria and Jordan without a carnet are.
I'm also curious how you got to and from Cyprus, as I have a hard time accepting to pay €500 getting out of Israel.

Rinus

We crossed into Senegal a week ago from Mauritania (Diama Bridge) and Senegal are now not accepting Carnets at all.

We had to buy a local carnet for 2,500 CFA which lasts 10 days and then you can get it renewed at a customs place - for free (yeah right!) - and add another 15 days. Everyone else I have spoken to who has crossed the border in the last week have had to do the same. We're off to the customs tomorrow to try to renew so will post again if I have any more news.

The customs guy said that he thought it was a temporary situation.

Kate

Libya
 

Great idea for a sticky but Libya only accepts its own version issued at the border - all in Arabic (your guide/tour agent usually organises it in advance for you). I'm doubt the Customs there would even look at a typical FIA CdP.

IME it's common for the motoring organisations who issue FIA carnets to make the list of countries longer than it actually is. Was that the origin of the original list?

The following discussion is very useful. As always the best advice comes from Hubbers on the road!

Ch

Ok, so we keep an eye on developments in Senegal and Libya is a no. Thanks for all your contributions, keep them coming.

The 'original' list was a page on Wikipedia, but I suspect that that in turn is based on the ADAC page, as that is considered published. Anybody can publish anything on the net, that's what we are doing here.

Cheers,
Peter.

Update on Senegal Carnet situation:
 

Information from the TCS (Touring Club Switzerland)
 

Hello All,

Regarding the Carnet de Passage, you might be interested in the information provided by the Touring Club of Switzerland.

The dedicated page from the TCS:
http://www.reisen-tcs.ch/travel/fr/h...dokumente.html

"The TCS can issue such a document for persons who are not residing in Switzerland if there is no possibility to obtain a Carnet de passages in their residing country", statement found in this Application Form (in English)

http://www.reisen-tcs.ch/etc/mediali...demande_en.pdf


As for cost, if you apply for a CDP with the TCS (in French) :

Le CPD est remis contre une garantie sous forme d’un versement en espèces (caution) ou d’un cautionnement
solidaire (formulaire TCS uniquement) auprès d’une banque suisse. Le montant de la caution est le suivant:
Valeur du véhicule Caution
• jusqu’à CHF 9’999.- : CHF 3’000.-
• dès CHF 10’000.- : 50% de la valeur
• Exceptions: La caution doit représenter 100% de la valeur actuelle du véhicule pour les pays suivants (montant
minimum CHF 3’000.-): Egypte, Inde, Jordanie, Kenya, Pakistan, Turquie. Cela concerne également les véhicules
immatriculés en plaques suisses temporaires et les véhicules destinés à être immatriculés en Suisse.


They also provide a map showing the countries where it is mandatory and where it is recommended, which I have made available here:

http://images.imagehotel.net/nuhz42rz2y_tn.png

This map come from a PDF file provided by the TCS, which is available here:

http://www.reisen-tcs.ch/etc/mediali..._CPD_carte.pdf

Off course, some statements from the TCS may be outdated or wrong. That's where you guys and girls jump in with your first-hand experience. :thumbup1:

Hello, Very interesting to read that Egypt has it's own carnet available at the borders.
Costing 2000 Euros, and refundable upon exit.

I have a Land Cruiser valued at £10k
I would therfore need an insurance policy to cover a carnet of £80k

So if one is traveling through Africa to the Cape, could one leave off Egypt from the UK carnet, as it is 800%, and simply leave a deposit of 2000 Euros instead?

On of the big issues with travell through Africa, is the 800% carnet for Egypt.
If this can be avoided buy leaving a deposit, then this could be an excellent idea.
Comments please
Graham

that there map aint right
 

heres my two peneth.
a lot of south america is shown as obligatory for a carnet on that pdf map. this is tosh as we never were asked, or needed it for the whole of the americas. it makes wonder if the carnet providers just feed us what they want us to hear to drum up business for themselves. or am i too cynical?
anyway while im here talking carnets, i want to go have a little adventure riding to timbuctu early 2009.i need to escape the british winter!! i though i could do it without a carnet without undue hassle. would someone tell me that this is correct or not if you have been that way recently.
cheers and have a good xmas wherever you are
oz

Have not done it myself lately but no CdP needed to get to Tim. Both Mori and Mali give there own versions. Visas have eased up too. More info below

Ch

Sahara Overland ~ Country Information

The 'List of Carnet countries..' page needs to be updated re Australia - as the page linked to under the Oz heading in it correctly explains, a Carnet IS required, not optional.

Cheers
Clint

Ok, thanks for the pointer. I tried to read the relevant pages, but they have changed and are no longer as clear as they have been. It does seem as you now NEED a carnet.

Page updated.

The Stans??
 

Hello
Any idea about a carnet for the 'Stans, Russia and Mongolia? Some say you need one, some say you don't (of course!!) Anyone got any recent info about border fun?
We'll be heading off to Japan overland (well, ish, you know what I mean!) on a lovely old AT (worth about £1000, but to us, it's our baby!!)

Cheers!
ImiBee

Aus
 

Another hint for Oz: you may not leave OZ without your vehicle.

No need for the Russia or the 'stans, but you do need it for Japan, so your might as well start earning the extra money needed for a carnet.

Cynical, I'd say:cool4:

The countries in red is based on the governments of countries that have signed up to the CDP agreements. Check the list on the CDP.

If the locals on "the ground" choose not to implement it, that's all well and good:clap:



John

Of course: if a country hasn't signed the agreement then they can't issue carnets. Let's remember that the purpose of the carnet is to avoid having to deposit $$$$ at a border. You deposit it with your AA instead and you have a better chance to get it back! :smartass:

Russia
 

Do I need any special papers to go from Poland to Finland via the big Bear?
Help PegLeg.

Carnet - West Africa
 

The HUBB's list of countries indicates that a carnet is required for Ghana, Nigeria, Togo and Cameroun. Googling returns mixed results - some sites say a CPD is 'mandatory' for those countries, others say it is 'recommended' while others say there is no need.

A few posts from last year suggest that a Laissez-Passer is sufficient for those countries.

Does anyone have recent actual experience on carnet requirements for those countries?

Thanks

I'm trying to gather info on the middle east. A gentlemen traveling from Scotland said that he was asked for one at every Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon, but officially it is only recommended and not required. This means that you have to buy temp insurance as well as a temp carnet for these countries, but NO big cash deposit?

My plans were to continue through Egypt and back to Europe via Northern Africa, but I am now re-thinking that. I am on a bit of a tight budget, and my Canadian carnet costs over $600. As much as I want to see Egypt, I may loop down into the middle east and back out the way I came, or perhaps ferry across to Greece...?

While were on the subject, is it possible to re-enter Jordan from Israel if you have a double entry visa, or to head up to Lebanon and leave Israel there. All these countries seem to instantly deny you entry if you have an Israel stamp, or seemingly if your coming from Israel, which is why I planned to exit to Egypt. Thoughts? Thanks

USA carnet
 

Hi,

Just thought I'd share my US customs experience with my fellow travellers.
I am a UK citizen working in Kuwait and took a Kuwait registered BMW GSA to USA , togehter with the Kuwait issued Carnet (just in case).

The chief customs officer took one look at the back of the carnet, and cause it did not list USA as one of the countries under Americas, he refused to accept the carnet and ask me to find somebody who would issue me a temporary import bond.

To cut a LONG story short, his colleague researched on the UNITED STATES INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISION website Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States and found article 9804.0035 which CLEARLY states the vehicle is to be free of customs duty. They then swiftly signed all the necessary paperwork and i waas on my way, with a copy of the article.

Hope this helps somebody.
H A

Good piece of info, thanks!

BUT: the first mistake was showing the carnet at all!

Rule 1 of international travel: show them what they ask for, nothing more, and
Rule 2: answer questions, don't ask them.

Note that the carnet is NOT required AT ALL in the Americas. If you have one, you MAY save a LITTLE money and time in a FEW South American countries - but definitely not worth getting one if you don't need it for Africa or somewhere that does require it.

Rule 3: KISS Principle :)

Hi. If one has a Carte Gris (cheaper), will this not be sufficient to replace a carnet for any nation? - Or for west Africa at least? This is an important issue, yet it is impossible to get straight answers. Thanks, Alastair

AFAIK a carte gris (grey card) is what they call your vehicle ownership docs in North and West Africa.

What you may mean is a temporary vehicle importation permit (TIP) which you can certainly get in West Africa and covers most francophone countries there.
That's called a laisser passer and possibly AKA a carte brun? (brown card).

Elsewhere in sub-Saharan Africa only a carnet will do, hence this long thread!

But as Grant says - if they dont ask dont offer a CdP.

Chris S

Cash deposit Egypt
 

Hey guys,

Does anyone maybe know how the cash deposit in Egypt while travelling through by car exactly works? I know its app. 2000 euros, but where and how to deposit? And is it safe?

Nick S.

Carnets in the USA
 

Re Grants comments:
I flew the bike ('08 R1200GSA)from Australia to San Francisco last year, and customs would not let me in, initially, because they thought I might sell it in the US!
My agent ended up posting a bond for me, to allow me to get on with my adventure.
The EPA got involved as well, because they were concerned about the emissions!
Remember, this is an '08 Beemer.
This mess took five days to sort out.
A carnet would have helped, but you don't need one in the US.
Yeah right.
I'm sure they make it up as they go.
Cheers Errol

A couple of updates that while I'm unable to edit the "required" page:

Senegal: several reports that carnet is required. On top of that, carnets must be stamped within 2 days of entry by customs in Dakar! On top of that, a Passavant must be bought for the 2 days (unless arriving in Dakar).

Guinea and Sierra Leone: carnets apparently not required, but without one a Laissez-Passer must be obtained from an embassy (when applying for visas).

marocco overland
 

hi guys,
i am new here...
planing to go with my camper from serbia to marocco and possible odher countrys in africa (no haveing plan about it yet)... i was in marocco few years ago and i was almoust two months there, means my visa was probably 3 months. dont remember now... i plan to go in africa from spain to marocco end go out same way....and to stay in africa 4, 5 or 6 months... now, my question is for all you nice people, how can i get permit longer than 30 days when entering marocco, i mean that insorance tax (instead carnet de passage)... i hear that wheicle must be returned after 30 days... how does that works?

"Marocco overland"
 

Sventlana71,
Somebody might answer your question in this forum/ thread, but you're more likely to get an answer if you re-post the question in
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-travel-forum/
or
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/

You might also find answer(s) at Tim Cullis's
Morocco GS Knowledgebase - ::. UKGSer.com .::
and Chris Scott's
Morocco Overland ~ the website for the book

thanks courtfisher, i will visit those links.

wooooow, THANK YOU courtfisher... links you gave me are owsome..... in it is all i need. if i meet you ever, i owe you a large beer :)

Carnet in Africa - Our experience 2010/11
 

Hi folks,

Good to see the debate is ongoing on this topic and there is a lot of grey - especially in Africa.

We were in Africa (Morocco to South Africa) by West / Central Africa Sept 2010 / May 2011 traveling with a 14 year old Land Rover. We used our Carnet all the way with the exception of Morocco / W Sahara (see Latest news / About us - Langebaan Sunset - Stonehenge UK to Cape Town SA - 2010/11)

Contrary to what you may have read in previous threads, we needed it for Mauri and Senegal (recent changes have kicked in). For Senegal we got it stamped at Rosso of all places by insisting that they did it. We did not have to go to Dakar - so that kind of shows the variance in what you read and what actually happens on the ground.

We tended to produce it at the border and it was filled in with very little fuss. The odd border guard was a bit unsure but with a bit of help it was always a simple exercise to complete. We used 17 pages of our 25 page booklet.

This debate about what you can and cannot get away with is interesting as the bottom line is the Carnet serves a useful purpose and if you have it and use it you can avoid local transit charges ("local paperwork") and when you get stopped (22 times in 22km in Nigeria for example) officials back off when they see you have it so it helps avoid bribes. It helped avoid a collection of fines in Northern Senegal but for the rest of Africa it was a breeze, easy to use and there was no debate about if it was needed or not.

I think you need to work out what camp you are in with the Carnet:

Camp 1 - Minority of people who travel of fake paperwork / Carnets to avoid costs - good luck to you and if you get caught in Africa!
Camp 2 - People who don't travel with one at all - you become subject to the border game of "guess what the charge is for this crossing". OK if you have lots of time, good language skills and dont mind hanging around at borders haggling over $$
Camp 3 - People that buy a genuine Carnet - yes there is an expense but there is also an upside, especially if you want to import the car into your end destination and the speed at which you can get through a border. If you want to save pages because you are going to a lot of countries you can always see if they will let you in without stamping it but 25 countries in 1 year is enough for most people.

I would say that any list of countries accepting or not accepting Carnets is always subject to the general rule of "what the guy sat in the hut at the border you happen to be at thinks at that particular time" and whilst the CPD may not be "officially required", it is often used to facilitate temporary importation of your vehicle anyway - so our logic was - use it when you can.

I have heard that Carnet infringements and collections on security are on the increase, so caveat emptor applies ;-)

Some links on this are as follows:

Carnet de Passage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Non-Member Areas

Hope that adds to the debate

Cheers

Nick

Thank you for your well-written Article, Nick. It should be useful to others heading that way.