Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > 4 wheels > Toyota Overland Tech

Toyota Overland Tech All Toyota's TECH discussions and info.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Visit Matt Savage for VIAIR compressors, Air Lift Helper Springs, Tyre Levers, Chris Scott's Books & DVDs, KC Daylighters, Allisport Intercoolers, Overland Preparation and lots more!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 43
Why are Toyota's best?

What I mean is, brand loyalty aside, why is it that Landcruiser's and Hilux's seem hold together better than anything else? What is it that keeps them from rattling apart after decades of third-world real-world abuse that would relegate other makes to the scrap heap?

Did Toyota use a different method of fastening on the bodies and bits, heavier frames, better bolts, or what? I used to think all Japanese makes are about the same, but from what I've read and experienced, Toyota's seem to always come out on top when the going gets--and stays--hard.

I know the Landcruisers are heavy duty, but the Hiluxs are pretty basic, so why are they 'better' than (or should I say why do they have a better reputation than) Mitsubishi's, Isuzu's, or Nissan's, for example? I wonder if it's hype or truth...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ghana
Posts: 289
It's an interesting question! Not another toyo Vs L/R...
We have bought over the last 5-6 years probably 20+ Nissan D22 pickups. The South African built one ("Hardbody") falls apart much much faster than the Japanese built one. I asked a similar question to a CAT dealer engineer with 20 years experience and he said the same thing - a ZA built 140G grader is much less solid and tends to suffer metal fatigue much faster than the Jap built one. He reckoned steel quality had a lot to do with it. We found that Nissan tend to have really strong drive trains and engines, but bodies and suspension not as long lasting as Toyo. Toyo are not invulnerable though! The gearbox synchromesh particularly on 1st and 2nd tend to go pretty fast, injection pumps can wear quite quickly too, but apart from that they do tend to last.
We change the D22 pickups after 2 years, and by that time they are pretty shot. Landcruisers we change at 4 years, and still are in pretty good shape. But really I don't know for sure why!
Gil
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 666
Why are Toyota's best?

Reliability.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire
Posts: 375
Because in the early 1980's Toyota mass produced and then sold on at a vastly reduced cost about 3 million of the flatbed trucks, they discovered that they could make more money in the long run selling parts to the 3mill+ then in the short run by having expensive products, this was then a mindbender as it hadn't been done before.

This mind set won them Most of SE/Asia, Africa, South America who imported vast numbers of the trucks along with the spares that they would need. That's why they are the MOST COMMON truck in the world, I've seen them everywhere and in every state of disrepair that you can imagine, mostly farmers and warlords have the worst examples.

Now if only Land Rover or Hummer had that foresight, I did this marketing model at Uni business studies, very very effective.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ghana
Posts: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juddadredd View Post
Because in the early 1980's Toyota mass produced and then sold on at a vastly reduced cost about 3 million of the flatbed trucks, they discovered that they could make more money in the long run selling parts to the 3mill+ then in the short run by having expensive products, this was then a mindbender as it hadn't been done before.

This mind set won them Most of SE/Asia, Africa, South America who imported vast numbers of the trucks along with the spares that they would need. That's why they are the MOST COMMON truck in the world, I've seen them everywhere and in every state of disrepair that you can imagine, mostly farmers and warlords have the worst examples.

Now if only Land Rover or Hummer had that foresight, I did this marketing model at Uni business studies, very very effective.
Maybe true, but whether their truck marketing was very successful or not how do you explain their amazing penetration of the 4x4 market. Including markets where there is practically bugger all 'marketing' media. The marketing issue (i.e. people saying Toyo's success is because of marketing) might be valid in more developed places, but I reckon it still is not the real explanation as to why Toyos are perceived to be better!! There does seem to be a genuine longevity issue which explains why a hard bitten desert taxi operator is rattlling around in a 60 series and not a Mitsu/Isuz etc. They do tend to be valued other all others by those that really need longevity and reliability. It can't only be a price thing as the landcruiser 79 pickup is way more expensive than say a D22 - not surprisingly.
Gil
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire
Posts: 375
Sighs, The Flat Beds I was refering to are the 4x4s. HILux etc are the modern versions, same as the OZ 'ut' (Utility) the new ones have the interchangble cargo pods. If it has a cab connected to a flat bed and can pull sh*t loads then it's a flat bed truck isn't it, my god was that such a stretch of the imagination?



They sell them cheap on average (todays prices), HILux as an example
Thailand £5,000 + extras
Cambodia £4,250 + extras
UK £11,000 + extras
Don't know about Africa

If you ever get to travel to SE/Asia you will see the bill boards 100 feet hi with the adverts, if you drive down any road you will see loads and loads of shops selling tires, bull bars, bed conversions and my favorite spares.

If stolen bikes coming from Japan end up in Thailand/Cambodia where do you think the stolen 4x4s from Thailand/Cambodia/Malyasia/Oz and the USA end up? Maybe Africa by chance! didn't you ever notice how in the African Toyota's in the BBC the news items are older versions?


As for longevity, the EU is cold and wet and corrosion is rife due to the gritting over the winter, whereas in the hotter climates there's a lot less rust so the bodies last longer again it isn't rocket science, Just the Shocks tend to go due to the bad roads and overloading.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 466
Talking oi oi oi

I am not going to mix in this discussion, no I am not, am not not not......

damn,

Toyota are simply better.... na nana na na ....

cheers,

Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30 Jan 2008
Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 326
I don't have much experience of working on LRs, but working on an 80 series LC last year with the owner who used to be a dedicated LR owner he raised a number of points.

The main gist of comparing all the key components like hubs, diffs, etc on his 80 series to his last Discovery (series II I think) was that the LC had much more heavy duty components that were better thought through and better quality.

I think this is borne out in the reliability side of things and that LC need less protection and fettling than LRs.

It is probably why LCs have out sold LRs 20 times around the world
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ghana
Posts: 289
Juddadred,
sorry if I came across too strong in questioning your marketing theory - not my intention, I only wanted to know how the marketing issue holds up in areas where there is little or no marketing.
BTW:
-World's best ever selling "truck" or p/up is Ford F-Series pickups
-Hilux light duty 4x4 pickup on sale since 1969 under the name Hilux, there was no real light duty 4x4 prior to the Hilux, the Landcruiser (heavier duty) was really named (at least) in 1954, although it's origins were WWII. So I don't really know what you mean when you say that Hilux are the modern ones?
- I suspect you are referring to 75 and 79 series pickups (landcruisers) when you talk about "older" ones. Easy done as they do look old fashioned due to having the same body style for 23 years almost without change. Easy to confuse the models in Africa if you are watching the BBC - easier to ID in the flesh so to speak.

Landrover had an even better earlier marketing model - called the British Empire... and they still dropped the ball!

Hummer doing just fine with their marketing model - if you want to follow celebs/rappers and the US Army that is :-)

Cheers,
Gil
(tongue firmly in cheek and not trying at all to be rude)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ghana
Posts: 289
Forgot to add that Julian and Noel are right of course!!! But seriously, pull the half shaft on a Landcruiser and put it next to one from a Defender and see!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30 Jan 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 43
So it comes down to design, components, engineering, and assembly and in that case, I think the Patrol/Safari and Landcruiser are pretty much on par with each other.

But where does that leave the Defender--how much less durable (for lack of a better term) is it really? I know Defender defenders love their Defenders, and probably for good reason. But what are some of those reasons (beyond patriotism)?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Alt Penedes, Barcelona
Posts: 131
If you must really get there on time get a Toy.
If you wanna enjoy every inch of a trip with no specific destination get a real L.R.

Real Land Rovers are not made for slaves of time


Fair winds and following seas (or sands) !
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30 Jan 2008
DarrenM's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Coventry
Posts: 126
I have never owned a 4x4 but did work in the automotive industry for 8 years supplying assembly equipment to all the major manufacturers.

Two major factors.....
Quality Control
Quality of Components

The Japanese seem better at this than Europeans. The Europeans have automated Quality control trusting feedback from production machines. The operators who assemble your cars are always finding ways to cheat the processes. The Japanese also seem better at motivating staff, even in UK based plants.

The body on a LR Discovery is held on by about 20 'self tapping' bolts !!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30 Jan 2008
Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by armadillo View Post
If you must really get there on time get a Toy.
If you wanna enjoy every inch of a trip with no specific destination get a real L.R.
OR...

If you want to go overlanding take a LR.

If you want to make it back in one peice, go in a Toyota
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 31 Jan 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ghana
Posts: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WDTraveller View Post
So it comes down to design, components, engineering, and assembly and in that case, I think the Patrol/Safari and Landcruiser are pretty much on par with each other.

But where does that leave the Defender--how much less durable (for lack of a better term) is it really? I know Defender defenders love their Defenders, and probably for good reason. But what are some of those reasons (beyond patriotism)?
Some reasons:
They are durable vehicles, but need a degree of pampering, concern and spanner work. They also have a certain look and image that the Jap wagons don't really have - IMHO this applies to a lot of really well engineered Japanese cars that just don't have the design aspect as well sorted as Euro/Brit cars. They are also easily understood by DIY/Bush mechanics. Also a huge range of spares/aftermarket stuff available, particularly in the UK, whereas a lot of Toyo stuff doesn't really exist in the UK or is very expensive and imported (often from Oz). They are also easier to modify, drill and prepare. The expertise (particularly in UK) is more available when it comes to spannering and modification.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Vehicle - Toyota or Land Rover??? bigpond 4WD Overland Tech 52 14 Dec 2007 12:46
Keep the riff-raff off adventure motorcycles LuckyStriker Travellers' questions that don't fit anywhere else 63 11 Aug 2006 22:05
Toyota's in the sand NeilT 4WD Overland Tech 16 7 Feb 2005 05:37

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:24.