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**stuxtttr** · #1 12 Jun 2008

We need to unite and fight thi9s one together.

Our government takes us all for mugs but we need to do something about the stupid pricing of Road Taxation.

Why can I buy a car that costs zero tax or £35 per year but if I buy a little 50cc scooter capable of 120mpg I have to pay £15 per year.

It gets worse, Brown is now on about doubling the Tax on bikes.

We need to get onto the manufacturers and get them to fight this too.

The goverment say that there are no tests or figures for bikes on co2 emmisions, well why dont they insist on it.

If this doesnt stop its just another nail in the bikers coffin as the government try to outlaw bikes on safety grounds. Look at what they have done with the new DSA test centres, put training firms out of business and deter the next generation away from bikes.

We need everyone on board to fight this come on Charlie and Ewan join in and Join the Fight, organise a mass rideout and we will come.

While were at it we could get the truckers and farmers on board, 2 more industries threatened by rising fuel costs.

It seems like our gvmnt want to screw us for every penny we have and ruin our lives to the point where we all leave and let the illegals take our houses and jobs.

Sorry folks Rant over but its early and I needed to get that off my chest

**DLbiten** · #2 12 Jun 2008

"Remember remember the 5th of November. People should not be afraid of there governments there government should be afraid of there people." V

Go get them and give them for me

**edteamslr** · #3 12 Jun 2008

I think in this environment of rising everything it's to be expected that bike tax will rise. Whilst bikes are often, and ultimately can be, some of the more efficient users of gasoline their emissions record is far from squeeky clean (I'm informed that bikes are governed by older Euro CAT regs 3 vs 4? than new cars for example) and I would prefer to pay slightly more tax to stay out of the microscope with my 1000c sportsbikes that do 30mpg! Better than road pricing (I commute on my Africa Twin) but then politics and reason seldom go hand in hand these days.

**CornishDeity** · #4 12 Jun 2008

As far as I know the farmers are a lot better of than in the 80s/90s. And of course, locally they use red diesel. Obviously anything trucked about shouldn't. But a unusual comment given that farming is on the rise again.

Obviously this is just from chatting to farmers and I don't have any facts to back this up.

Now I know the truckers are a different kettle of fish.....

**Jimbobby** · #5 12 Jun 2008

Ollie

I think the reason farmers seem better off compared to the 90's is that all of the smaller farms have gone out of business! Maybe a bit different around your way, but here in the midlands if you were less than 500 acres you went to the wall a long time ago. Mainly just large estate type farms left.

**mustaphapint** · #6 12 Jun 2008

It's time we scrapped this antiquated road tax altogether in the UK. The government already has an efficient way of collecting tax from road users via fuel duty and those who use the roads more or have uneconomic fuel consumption pay more tax so it's self policing.
Road tax means we need a whole army of unnecessary staff to administer it.
Scrap road tax, scrap the administration and put 1p on a litre then I think we'd all be better off. (apart from the civil servants who would lose their jobs!)
I can only ride 1 bike at a time yet I have to keep all my machines taxed just so they can sit in the garage most of the time.

**CornishDeity** · #7 12 Jun 2008

Oooh - I'm probably getting into ground I shouldn't, but hey, I'll continue anyway

I think in Cornwall most of the farms are small (comparatively) and hence were hardest hit in the 80/90s. Most have now diversified, although perhaps after going bust. But, I really don't know my facts, so I will leave it there.

Sure they still use red diesel mind you!

**Jimbobby** · #8 12 Jun 2008

if I had access to cheaper diesel, I know what I would do

**oldbmw** · #9 12 Jun 2008

Here in France ther is no road tax for bikes.. or cars for tha matter.
As to red diesel, the cost of oil has risen so muchthere is now little difference in teh price

We use red diesel for our Cooker

and old engine oil

**stuxtttr** · #10 15 Jun 2008

Yeah I think the idea of scrapping road tax is the way foward. What system do they operate in France ?

I also think the government should include 3rd Party Cover into the regs/MOT system that way there would be far less uninsured vehicles on the road.

Whos up for a mass rideout down to the Big Smoke we could turn it into a Hubb Bar gathering and all have a great day out.

**oldbmw** · #11 15 Jun 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuxtttr

Yeah I think the idea of scrapping road tax is the way foward. What system do they operate in France ?

I

No road tax, and fuel is similarly priced to UK. Most motor ways though are toll roads, ( only where no suitable alternative exists). France has a different approach to roadbuilding than the uk. In the uk most motorways were built at the expense of the previous A road. In France the old road system mostly co-exists with the new motorways which carry a lot of traffic transitting from spain and other southern countries to Germany and the surrounding area. In effect it had to build motorways to serve foreign traffic. So it seems fair enough to charge them. What it means is all those in a hurry (and most lorries) take the motorways leaving all the old pretty roads fairly empty for the more leisurely riders/drivers. Some RN ( A road/ Route National) and D (B roads/ Departmental) function as local trunk roads, here the best midday lunches can be had at the various 'relais' ( truckers resturants ) expect a two hour 4 course lunch with wine and coffee for around 9-12 euros.

**Walkabout** · #12 15 Jun 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyrider

It's time we scrapped this antiquated road tax altogether in the UK. The government already has an efficient way of collecting tax from road users via fuel duty and those who use the roads more or have uneconomic fuel consumption pay more tax so it's self policing.
Road tax means we need a whole army of unnecessary staff to administer it.
Scrap road tax, scrap the administration and put 1p on a litre then I think we'd all be better off. (apart from the civil servants who would lose their jobs!)
I can only ride 1 bike at a time yet I have to keep all my machines taxed just so they can sit in the garage most of the time.

If everyone in the country was to claim a road tax rebate at the end of each month, by declaring SORN, and re-tax the vehicle the next day, doing it all by paperwork and not via the online means (that is designed to get you to do as much of the tax collecting as possible) then the system would probably collapse under its' own bureaucracy - if not in the first month then it would almost certainly do so in the next month.
You would just have to do without the vehicle for one day per month.
Also, declare all those spare bikes SORN and then re-tax them, over and over.

**MarkE** · #13 16 Jun 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkabout

If everyone in the country was to claim a road tax rebate at the end of each month, by declaring SORN, and re-tax the vehicle the next day [...] then the system would probably collapse under its' own bureaucracy - if not in the first month then it would almost certainly do so in the next month.
You would just have to do without the vehicle for one day per month.

You would also end up paying more RFL over the course of the year because the refund is not the full unexpired value. While I would love to protest, I don't want to do so by giveing them MORE of my money!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkabout

Also, declare all those spare bikes SORN and then re-tax them, over and over.

[Ahem] you should be declaring them SORN anyway, as I found to my cost with a permanently stalled restoration project. Not sure whether or how you could gum up the system by re declaring every month instead of annually, but that might be worth investigating.

IO'd bet, however, that if they transferred the tax onto fuel, they'd then decide they had some need for an annual charge for some invented purpose, with attendant bureaucracy and cost.

**mr moto** · #14 16 Jun 2008

the whole road tax system is a complete mess , i am still getting letters demanding payment of fines for not taxing a vehicle i sold over a year ago . i have even sent them a copy of the letter they sent me , thanking me for informing them of the sale of the vehicle , which was taxed at the time of sale ,and what happened then ? they sent me another letter threatening legal action if i fail to pay the fine !
the whole system is so overloaded with nonsensical bureaucracy ,that even they themselves do not seem to know what they are doing .

**henryuk** · #15 16 Jun 2008

I've been taken to court by the DVLA for not taxing a vehicle that was written off (V5 surrendered to the insurer, DVLA informed), a vehicle that was destroyed by the DVLA whilst I was on an overland trip (had the V5 in the glove compartment as someone was SUPPOSED to sell it for me) and a vehicle that was on a SORN when I bought it (they took the SORN off without telling me then issued a court summons!!). I have tried to register one bike 3 times now and they lost the original V5, lost the new keepers supplement and now say because I do not have either I owe them 25 quid.

When the revolution comes the DVLA will be the first against the wall!!

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