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Poll: Do you think this economic crisis has just been planned well in advance?
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Do you think this economic crisis has just been planned well in advance?

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  #31  
Old 28 Oct 2011
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crisis? what crisis!

Eat when you are hungry, scratch when you are itchy, uck when you are orny, sleep when you are tired, ride when you feel like it....if you are able to do this count your blessings and don't let the paranoia get to you......half of the stuff we are scared of actually doesn't happen at all! Oh yeah...be kind to one another, I almost forgot.
Rob
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  #32  
Old 2 Nov 2011
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Welcome to the New Age of Feudalism

Interesting thread,

We like to think that we are masters of our own destiny but the reality is somewhat different. The education system and the media really control most peoples' attitude and behaviour. There are some of us who see beyond this (lots of engineers I bet). But dissenters are demonised as cranks, or increasingly, terrorists who want to destroy our way of life!

Democracy only works on the day of voting, after that the politicians become part of the corrupt system that remains in place. Large corporations (banks and media mostly) control the politicians and once elected the politicians soon dance to their tune. How else can you explain politicians taking money from the poorest and middle classes and giving it directly to the bankers.

In the US the big financial institutions are technically bankrupt but are allowed -encouraged even- to pass their bad debts to the Fed and collect billions in cash. Then the Fed tells Obama to give them more money. The ordinary Joe's then have to foot the bill through austerity and taxes.

Capitalism in principle works but the problem here is that the governments have stepped in to subvent the natural law: if you make bad bets, you lose. They saved, and continue to save, bankrupt institutions with taxpayers money regardless of the social impact or moral correctness.

Despite being technically bankrupt, these financial institutions have increased their stranglehold on the system and are still acting to ensure that their profits and bonuses are protected. Politicians are actively conspiring with them. Guess who Tony Blair and other world politicians now work for? (Well actually they always did..)

Remember the corporate asset strippers from the eighties? We are now at the stage where the Financial Institutions are asset stripping soverign nations and destroying economies to preserve their commission. It is no coincidence that the amout of wealth 'destroyed' during this crisis is almost equivalent to the additional wealth accrued by the wealthies corporations and people.

There are a few genius' who control the whole board but they have relatively low profiles. They invented the various derivitive instruments and got out before they blew up -stupid they ain't.

They have now moved into commodoties because this is where the money is now. People have to eat and need energy. Commodity prices are on the rise and as the 99% become poorer so they have less of everything. The real result is that poorer people will die in greater numbers -not just in Third World countries but in developed nations.

Welcome back to the New Age of Feudalism.
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  #33  
Old 2 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeee! View Post
Interesting thread,

We like to think that we are masters of our own destiny but the reality is somewhat different. The education system and the media really control most peoples' attitude and behaviour. There are some of us who see beyond this (lots of engineers I bet). But dissenters are demonised as cranks, or increasingly, terrorists who want to destroy our way of life!

Democracy only works on the day of voting, after that the politicians become part of the corrupt system that remains in place. Large corporations (banks and media mostly) control the politicians and once elected the politicians soon dance to their tune. How else can you explain politicians taking money from the poorest and middle classes and giving it directly to the bankers.

In the US the big financial institutions are technically bankrupt but are allowed -encouraged even- to pass their bad debts to the Fed and collect billions in cash. Then the Fed tells Obama to give them more money. The ordinary Joe's then have to foot the bill through austerity and taxes.

Capitalism in principle works but the problem here is that the governments have stepped in to subvent the natural law: if you make bad bets, you lose. They saved, and continue to save, bankrupt institutions with taxpayers money regardless of the social impact or moral correctness.

Despite being technically bankrupt, these financial institutions have increased their stranglehold on the system and are still acting to ensure that their profits and bonuses are protected. Politicians are actively conspiring with them. Guess who Tony Blair and other world politicians now work for? (Well actually they always did..)

Remember the corporate asset strippers from the eighties? We are now at the stage where the Financial Institutions are asset stripping soverign nations and destroying economies to preserve their commission. It is no coincidence that the amout of wealth 'destroyed' during this crisis is almost equivalent to the additional wealth accrued by the wealthies corporations and people.

There are a few genius' who control the whole board but they have relatively low profiles. They invented the various derivitive instruments and got out before they blew up -stupid they ain't.

They have now moved into commodoties because this is where the money is now. People have to eat and need energy. Commodity prices are on the rise and as the 99% become poorer so they have less of everything. The real result is that poorer people will die in greater numbers -not just in Third World countries but in developed nations.

Welcome back to the New Age of Feudalism.
YOU MEANT IT, MAN! This is the point I wanted to rise, but much better explained (probably you are an engineer and I am not!).

Here it is: "It is no coincidence that the amout of wealth 'destroyed' during this crisis is almost equivalent to the additional wealth accrued by the wealthies corporations and people".

The great invention: I privatize my benefits and collectivize my looses. Add the "tooo big to fail" doctrine and get everyone to agree. [Those few become richer, most of us become poorer].

Even better: you lend money to those unable to pay it. Then you sell those credits as good and make profit. When they are not paid, others suffer the consequences. In my language that is called SCAM.

And these are not conspiracy theories, just facts in the news everyday.

Cheers, Wheee!

Esteban

Last edited by estebangc; 3 Nov 2011 at 00:05. Reason: Did I say I missed one more pronoun?
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  #34  
Old 2 Nov 2011
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I dont think it was planned, but people should have seen it coming.

Giving people credit that with an educated guess it should have been obvious that it couldn't be paid back.

What concerns me more is the latest revelations over the Greek debt. Anyone see the Euro collapsing in the next 18 months?
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  #35  
Old 3 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacheFlame View Post
I dont think it was planned, but people should have seen it coming.

What concerns me more is the latest revelations over the Greek debt. Anyone see the Euro collapsing in the next 18 months?
well I thought I had spotted a "MAD MAX" like figure approaching on the far horizon for a split second... but he is to far away to tell...

Will know more next year, during the crossing of Greece, riding south to the Caucasus... therefore I'm watching the developments with interests...

Now look at it in a way, that the Euro was introduced without asking the European population in the 1st place... there was a referendum about the question only allowed in a very few countries like Denmark... and the old Vikings didn't like the idea of a new currency at all... would the politician have asked the Germans.. well there would not be a thing such a Euro in Germany yet... even most of the Dutch are very much disappointed by now and would rather go back to there Gulden by now... the old Brits... well who wonders.. rather keep there world in the old and proven imperial measurements too... the result of the resistance against Napoleon...

the whole Euro idea was meant for easy big business of the economy in the 1st place, not for the folk who lives there... anyway one currency makes travelling easy too, but that's it as far I can see... Europe is so full of different mentalities and customs, which is a delight to experience but never will fit under one hat...
yeah I think I can tell for all European in that case... politicians never thought about the possibility that there is one thing in common among the Europeans, they rather drink there own or wine... and don't like others to pour either sugar nor salt in to it... but learned to respect there neighbours to do so in to there own drinks..
yea the Euro eventually will collapse in the long run..
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Last edited by spooky; 3 Nov 2011 at 14:17.
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  #36  
Old 3 Nov 2011
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Well my word, what wise words. And from two Eurozoners (wheee! and spooky) at each end of the spectrum, who both have the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky View Post
the whole Euro idea was meant for easy big business of the economy in the 1st place, not for the folk who lives there... anyway one currency makes travelling easy too, but that's it as far I can see... Europe is so full of different mentalities and customs, which is a delight to experience but never will fit under one hat...
[Slighty off topic:]
And spooky, you’re onto it. I used to love riding around western/central Europe back in the 1990s. Reckon I must have covered around 80,000 km (50,000 miles) over in ‘Europe’ throughout that decade. It was sooooo diverse back then. Each trip was a real adventure. Yunno what I mean; changing your money at each border (okay, so you lost a little bit on the exchange .. but so what?!) Crossing from one sovereign country into another, meant a different culture (and language) to immerse yourself in. Passports were even checked sometimes too. I loved it all.

Now mainland Europe seems to have lost something? Each country used to have its own unique identity. Now it’s kinda morphing into one seamless and bland entity. Wherever you go it’s nearly all the same. Same money, same road signs, same everything. A bit boring really. What a shame ..

Anyone else feel like me?


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  #37  
Old 9 Nov 2011
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"Remember the corporate asset strippers from the eighties? "


Where do you go to watch them? Do you have to tip?
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  #38  
Old 9 Nov 2011
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No it's not planned it's because of the greed and manipulation of large conglomerate corporations. Those that work for them swallow the "chicken little" panic of their cashed up and overpaid directors.
So what can you do ?
DO NOT WORK FOR LARGE CORPORATIONS If you do, start planning a life away from them. It may be a downsize but your life will improve and you will have the piece of mind that you're not a part of the problem.
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  #39  
Old 19 Nov 2011
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How the EU bailout package works

It is a slow day in a dusty little Greek town near Thessaloniki . The sun is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist called Angela Merkle' is driving through the town, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner she wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives her some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the pub.

The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.

At that moment the German traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
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  #40  
Old 19 Nov 2011
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a different view:

Afterburner with Bill Whittle: Three and a Half Days - YouTube=
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  #41  
Old 10 Jan 2012
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First let's put our tin foil hats on ....

of course there's an economic crisis going on ... there's plainly less dollars (eur or what ever) going around.

as for if it was planned question? don't think it's possible to plan anything on a GLOBAL scale. what is possible and recently happened is... MEGA corporations/entities taking advantage of natural disasters.

tin foil hats still on tight?

when I ask people this simple question... What is the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world? most folks are stumped, including a published economist that posed the question to. his answer was when the British banking system collapsed in 1772 in the East India bubble.

now we can get to the point of all this... after Katrina fuel prices in USA spiked from about $1.29 gal to over $3 gal almost overnight.. then raising to over $4 gal ... naturally what ever happens in America trickles down to rest of the world.

result is $$$TRILLIONS was pulled out of the world economies. there is NOTHING else of this magnitude in this time frame that could cause a world recession.

this transfer of wealth from literally each and everyone in the world into petroleum companies (public, private & state owned) coffers. resulted in the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world!

with tin foil hats firmly in place... lets travel from global terms to the individual.

in America recently fuel prices has fallen by over $1 per gal from over $4 gal. what that means to literally every single family in America ... instantly there's about $100 per month to spent on whatever.

there is NO lag in this $$$ hitting America's economies. in simplistic terms, if the fuel prices stays and/or goes down further for an extended term. the US economy will come steaming back with rest of world in tow.

what is so amazing ... one almost never see in print... the cause/effect of world's fuel prices as directly responsible for this world recession.

OK... thanks for reading... you can take your tin foil hats off now
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  #42  
Old 10 Jan 2012
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Even your $4 gallon sounds like they're giving it away on your side of the pond. If a couple of dollars a gallon pull "trillions" out of the economy and everything stagnates how much does our nearly $10 gallons (or the equivalent in Euros) pull out, given that nearly $7 of that is tax. Take pity on your impoverished fellow europosters and send us a few gallons in the post. We can use the money we save to help prop up the Euro.
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  #43  
Old 10 Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
Even your $4 gallon sounds like they're giving it away on your side of the pond. If a couple of dollars a gallon pull "trillions" out of the economy and everything stagnates how much does our nearly $10 gallons (or the equivalent in Euros) pull out, given that nearly $7 of that is tax. Take pity on your impoverished fellow europosters and send us a few gallons in the post. We can use the money we save to help prop up the Euro.
OK .. answering your post requires we put our tin hats back on.

in terms of buying power for a basket of goods. in this case let's use the famous "Big Mac index" found on Economist, most respected publication of it's type in the world. we take a like basket of goods (Big Mac) found all over the world. it takes about the same support system/labor/capital etc to make that Big Mac.

so taking what a Big Mac costs in America as parity zero. compare to what that Big Mac costs is say in Brazil or Greece or what ever. factoring in current exchange rate tell us if that currency is over or under valued to the USD.




now after all that we get to the point.... buying power is what counts... not price tag on goods. If fuel prices was already say $3 gal in that particular country. then it'd have raise to $6 gal for transfer of wealth to achieve same purchasing parity.
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  #44  
Old 13 Jan 2012
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If we now remove your rose tinted glasses, you will see that the average price of fuel in the US is currently running at $3.60 for petrol (gas to you) and $4.02 for diesel a gallon.

Now as you Americans are awkward, and can't adopt anything without messing with it, we have to convert your gallon to ours.

This brings your fuel prices in to $4.33 for petrol and $4.84 for diesel per imp/gallon.

Convert this by the current exchange rate, makes your fuel £2.82 for petrol and £3.15 for diesel if it were here in the UK

Now our fuel prices are currently running at £5.86 for petrol and £6.22 for diesel, and as every commodity has to be transported in some way, this is what is crippling the UK (and European) population/industry.

So you can take your tin hat off and get an idea of the cost of this, try putting your fuel costs up to our rate, that means your petrol would now cost $8.99 and your diesel $9.55 (imp gal) or $7.48 petrol $7.95 diesel (us/gal)

Let's see what that does to the cost of your BigMac's......

Now you know why Europe & the EU are in deep s....


Rob
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  #45  
Old 13 Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XS904 View Post
If we now remove your rose tinted glasses, you will see that the average price of fuel in the US is currently running at $3.60 for petrol (gas to you) and $4.02 for diesel a gallon.

Now as you Americans are awkward, and can't adopt anything without messing with it, we have to convert your gallon to ours.

This brings your fuel prices in to $4.33 for petrol and $4.84 for diesel per imp/gallon.

Convert this by the current exchange rate, makes your fuel £2.82 for petrol and £3.15 for diesel if it were here in the UK

Now our fuel prices are currently running at £5.86 for petrol and £6.22 for diesel, and as every commodity has to be transported in some way, this is what is crippling the UK (and European) population/industry.

So you can take your tin hat off and get an idea of the cost of this, try putting your fuel costs up to our rate, that means your petrol would now cost $8.99 and your diesel $9.55 (imp gal) or $7.48 petrol $7.95 diesel (us/gal)

Let's see what that does to the cost of your BigMac's......

Now you know why Europe & the EU are in deep s....


Rob
Not so simple, I'm afraid. You have to look at the distances involved and the total cost to business or the individual. You will find that the average Joe in the UK spends the same proportion of his salary on fuel as the average Joe in the US.

I think that's kinda how the UK Govt decides on the price of fuel there.
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