Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB
The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Photo by Daniel Rintz, Himba children, Namibia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

Photo by Daniel Rintz,
Himba children, Namibia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10 Oct 2008
Ekke's Avatar
HU CanWest Meeting Organiser
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Redwood Meadows, AB, Canada
Posts: 358
Angry Selfish and Brainless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uganduro View Post
just how selfish and brainless can one be ?

people living in africa should remain with dirt tracks as main transport links such that filthy rich overlanding types can have their allroad "adventures"?

people die every day because of the time it takes to reach hospital over their lousy roads.
But that's not your problem, is it?

Because of poor infrastructure, high transport costs make goods & trading more expensive for the poorest, the further upcountry you go.
But that's not your problem, you've got money enough anyway.

Probably the africans should remain poor and jobless too, such that they can entertain you with their smiles, sitting under an old mango tree?
I had started a thread in the Sub-Saharan Africa forum lamenting the fact that all the challenging routes from Cairo to Cape Town were in the process of being paved. Bye bye adventure!

Uganduro piped up with the friendly quote above insulting anyone who would think of doing the Cairo - Cape Town for the adventure. You "filthy rich overlanding types"!

So, are we all being selfish and brainless if we are sad to see the end of the adventure?
__________________
Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

www.ekke-audrey.ca
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10 Oct 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California
Posts: 866
"They paved paradise, put up a parking lot..."

xxx
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10 Oct 2008
butchdiamond's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NFA
Posts: 126
Hmmm. That's a tough one. You both raise good points.

It is, without doubt, a tragedy that parts of Africa have so many huge incomprehensible problems. But, IMO, it's also a tragedy (to a much lesser extent, of course) to lose a great opportunity to explore and have adventures in these wild places.

But does the introduction of new roads and infrastructure really ruin the experience? I'm not so sure. It's not as though central Sudan will look like Vegas in a couple of years. If there's mile after mile of nice new blacktop from A to B, then you'll just have to take a different route via C, D and E. This, of course, may be longer and tougher... but it was "adventure" you were after anyway, no?

It's similar in "Western" countries too. Take France for example. You want to go from North to South. People on a mission can use the Autoroutes, and others, like me, can stay as far away from them as possible on the lesser, more interesting roads.

I don't think that the two issues need to fight each other.
__________________
BD.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10 Oct 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California
Posts: 866
I actually think Uganduro has a fair point - I guess it's inevitable that the primary routes become main thoroughfares, and if that helps aid and transport, it can only be good for the country/s and it's people...

...just as long as those countries don't become overrun with tarmac and greed (which sadly is also inevitable?), as per my quote above...

However, I'd also suggest it will be a long time coming before every inch of every road in Africa is tarmac - if you want an 'off-tarmac' adventure, there are still going to be plenty of roads and trails that will never be tarmaced, you've just got to stop following the well-worn routes and explore a little more?

xxx
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10 Oct 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California
Posts: 866
I think Butchdiamond and I are thinking and posting the same... x
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10 Oct 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: coventry uk
Posts: 150
African roads

Dont worry!! give it a couple of years and the roads will be knackered again!! its africa!
__________________
jeff watts
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10 Oct 2008
pottsy's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: london, uk.
Posts: 360
Hmmm, Uganduro has a point i feel. After all, our general interest in taking a backward step(?) and travelling on unsealed routes so we can get our fix of adventure is a personal choice of ours - but the locals needing improved infrastructure is surely paramount, especially in developing countries
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10 Oct 2008
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bucks, UK
Posts: 642
Yes, a fair point made BUT just because we were born in the country we were and are able to do what we do doesn't mean we're "selfish and brainless" I think this many have been taken somewhat out of context
__________________
Vietnam, Cambodia & Thailand 2016
Buenos Aires to NYC 2012-2013: www.facebook.com/curryhunt
India and back 2009-2010:
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10 Oct 2008
pottsy's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: london, uk.
Posts: 360
I'm not suggesting that we are are Selfish in our somewhat specialised interest i.e. overlanding, just that there are others who benefit at our "loss".And if a certain route becomes less adventurous to us then search out another, if practicable - adapt,improvise,overcome... eh!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10 Oct 2008
albert crutcher's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: colombia-ecuador
Posts: 218
Talking Indeed you maybe

As overland motorcyclists you may to a lot of other people seem selfish and brainless.As mostly all you seem to do is just pass through on the way back to your first world homes.After all who cant do it these days,all you need is a bike a creditcard and the will to do it.
Some of you may be helping some charity,but mostly not.
So really solo motorcycling is pretty hedonistic.
But most of the guys I meet are nice and I,ve seen a ton of go by.
I think the answer is to actually stay in one place during your trip for six months to a year.It will take that amount of time to get a true feel for that place wherever it may be and your trip won,t simply be a story of I went here,I went there.Instead of blasting past on the way to God knows where,get to know them speak a bit of there language,eat some of there food.What do they do,where do their kids go to school,what are their hopes,dreams etc.
Actually have a valid point of view instead of being another bike guy on his once in a lifetime big adventure.
Al theturtleshead
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10 Oct 2008
pottsy's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: london, uk.
Posts: 360
Quote:
...all you seem to do is just pass through on the way back to your first world homes.
- Of course we do, that's what travelling's all about! Expanding our geographical horizons. And most of us have to return Home eventually (even though it's often a bind to do so).

Quote:
I think the answer is to actually stay in one place during your trip for six months to a year.
- And wouldn't that be nice, were it practicable/affordable.But to me Travelling is more the journey and less the destination.IMHO

Quote:
Instead of blasting past on the way to God knows where,get to know them speak a bit of there language,eat some of there food.What do they do,where do their kids go to school,what are their hopes,dreams etc.
- So we don't try? I'm not the most sociable bloke on the planet, but communicating with the folk along the way is something i try to do - you never know when you need a spot of help.

Quote:
But most of the guys I meet are nice
- So why the griping, Al? Most of the Hubbers here aren't Resort-types who isolate themselves behind security walls. We don't shut ourselves off,we mix with the locals - that's what bikers do...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11 Oct 2008
albert crutcher's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: colombia-ecuador
Posts: 218
effort

Maybe you need to try harder.
Al theturtleshead
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11 Oct 2008
PocketHead's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sucre, Bolivia
Posts: 535
I wish they'd hurry up and build spaceships so we can ride on other planets like Mars
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11 Oct 2008
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 619
Hi all, well this particular sefish motorcyclist began to read up about Morocco before his first visit-still to come. Soon it became clear that many people there are very poor. This concerned me. Then I heard that kids beg for "Un stylo" at the roadside. I realized that they can't go to school without the stylo/pen to write with. This concerned me. I heard that Moroccans are hugely friendly and are likely to welcome me to share a mint tea-with no payment or commitmet. That would not happen back home. This concerned me.
I felt I needed to be able to help the children and thank folk for a tea. After a time I settled upon an idea----My bike can take a pillion! So I can carry about 80kg on it to help/ say thanks. This idea has matured to me taking a HUGE load out to two schools. One teacher I found out about on HUBB! I am going to schools because I can really help rather than just be courteous. I have collected pens, books, wall charts and posters, finger and hand puppets, footballs, frisbees, dominoes, crayons, some paints etc and some embroydery threads. All this will JUST fit on my road bike which will be lightly loaded after school.
Someone will say something about guilt release or somthing but ,No, I stop to help if somenone has broken down and I just thought that vsiting a wild, barren place and going,"Ooh,Wow!" was rather patronising to the locals really what looked like adventure to me was also ogling poverty. So we're all individuals. ( I am NOT a religious person but a hang gliding pilot, biker, traveller and thoughtful individual.) I can now look forward to a very different trip as I shall experience Moroccan society in a deeper fashion than without this contact with teacherw, kids, school and families.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11 Oct 2008
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 619
For a different take on adventure bike travel see this. Takes about an hour to view and is worthwhile I guarantee.
Angola, it's not like they said. - ADVrider Linzi
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:25.