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  #46  
Old 7 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
Some RRs are good (e.g Striking Viking, Moto Syberia). Most however are complete and utter boll*cks (Badly composed images, boring subjects, even worse words with horrendous vocabulary and grammar: The teacher in me coming out).
Are you talking about your web site? Because E X A C T L Y the same negatives can be found on web sites. Many can be dismal as well, having the identical failings you attribute to "Most" Ride Reports.

But at least a Ride Report on HUBB can have decent sized pics (unlike many web sites) and no dead links .... and readers can post interactively. Last I checked Web sites hide reader comments down below or in some obscure link.

Yes, there are good web sites too ... just as there are some good RR and Blogs. The point is with the HUBB Rider Tales forum we are supporting a rider community. This forum has the ability to bring together HU fans under one virtual roof .... instead of being scattered about ... some in the E-Zine, individual blogs or web sites all out across Cyber space.

Here, we are a community of travel riders and have some power, as a community, to act, to influence, to entertain and to aid the world around us and most of all to help each other.

Ride Reports strengthen that ability. Believe it or not ... lots more riders have heard of HU than your web site. So steer readers to your web site all your want .... they may go have a look once or twice, but most will return to the HUBB for years.

Patrick
(no web site, no blog and no ride reports )
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  #47  
Old 7 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
Are you talking about your web site? Because E X A C T L Y the same negatives can be found on web sites. Many can be dismal as well, having the identical failings you attribute to "Most" Ride Reports.

But at least a Ride Report on HUBB can have decent sized pics (unlike many web sites) and no dead links .... and readers can post interactively. Last I checked Web sites hide reader comments down below or in some obscure link.

Yes, there are good web sites too ... just as there are some good RR and Blogs. The point is with the HUBB Rider Tales forum we are supporting a rider community. This forum has the ability to bring together HU fans under one virtual roof .... instead of being scattered about ... some in the E-Zine, individual blogs or web sites all out across Cyber space.

Here, we are a community of travel riders and have some power, as a community, to act, to influence, to entertain and to aid the world around us and most of all to help each other.

Ride Reports strengthen that ability. Believe it or not ... lots more riders have heard of HU than your web site. So steer readers to your web site all your want .... they may go have a look once or twice, but most will return to the HUBB for years.

Patrick
(no web site, no blog and no ride reports )
Patrick
Get off my fricking case. I was giving MY opinion about RRs in general and adv RRs in particular. My site, your site, his site, her site etc have nothing to do with anything.

You said earlier in this thread,

quote "My only advice to posters is to EDIT your pics and don't give us the whole lot unless it's exceptional. On ADV about 90% of the pics are just awful .... and guys post thousand and thousands. Finding the rare gem is not easy." unquote.

So it could be suggested my last post agrees with you. Now you're trolling me. I'm confused.

If you think my site is sh*t, fine. Just don't go there. Each to their own.

A personal opinion of mine is: It's a bit rich telling others what they've got is rubbish, if you haven't even got one of your own. It's a bit like getting into a pissing competition and having no tool with which to urinate.

You say you have no website/blog/ridereports. This looks alot like a RR to me: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...survival-34887
I like it alot. Read it last year. It helped to inspire and partly assisted the route planning for my own Baja trip last Christmas/New Year (RR/webpage to come; work in progress. When it appears, remember not to look at it, it'll be sh*t).

I'm off to try to sell the DRZ, then down to the overlander show at the Ace Cafe.
cheers
Chris
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  #48  
Old 8 Feb 2009
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For it

Well' I'll admit to being somewhat of a Ride Report Pics, addict.You see as much as I'd like to be out seeing the big old world,well not rich,not able to get away from the farm for long periods of time,kid in school the list goes on.
So, if there's somewhere in this world I've thought about visiting and someone shows a pic and gives a their impression. Well, it's not a visit by me but at least I'll have an faint image. And that may be the spark that turns to fire.
I even wrote a RR on ADV last year about my 3 day 1000 mile trip to Peoria,Ill. to see the TT race.It had over 1000 veiws and somebody wrote that I had made it seem like a trip to Illinois was a must do.That was a neat feeling. Part of my 15 minutes.
So I vote yes to the idea. All the Earth is worth seeing. Even if y=I can only see it on the monitor.
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  #49  
Old 8 Feb 2009
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I would like to see more ride reports. I would agree that pictures are more likely to do a trip justice than words alone.

However, I do not agree that the Personal Web site is dead or obsolete and dittofor the travel blog. Each serves a purpose.

I think if one has had a relatively short trip, or wants to give an overview of a trip - its highlights, then a ride report is fine. In fact, I would say its preferable as its a lot easier to publish. For bigger trips, its perhaps not the best medium. That said, not everyone using a webhost for photos, so file size limits make it that much harder.

A personal website has infinitely more scope for creativity and content, and I can't see why either of those characteristics should be frowned upon.

One need only look at The Timeless Ride Hubert Kriegel BMW Motorcycle Raid World Travel Sidecar Adventure Gespann to see what I mean. We have followed Hubert since we met in Argentina, and particularly since he now has a Ural like me. There is no way you could have that much content in the way its been produced in a Ride Report. Nor would it accurate to say that being a personal website has somehow limited internet traffic or stiffled interest. Loads of people follow Hubert.

Other reasons maybe that a traveller wants to publish sponsor details for those who have supported them or, indeed, charities that are benefitting from the ride. It is also easier for those who are not members of HUBB to follow or get updates, eg friends and family. Margus' site is also well designed although in Estonian, so perhaps not as easy to navigate for a lot of visitors.

Some of us, myself included do not have great web skills so a website is out of the question, but want to write larger quantities. We wrote a travel blog, and a website specifically designed for travellers was perfect for this: very easy to follow for all and sundry. Loads of memory for uploading pics straight from the digicam, easy to edit, a subscribers list for email updates to those following a our trip, inteactive route maps etc: a nice compromise between the two....

As for links at the bottom of the page? Well, I may not click on all of them, but I have a peek once in a while and now and then, I see a trip that pushes my buttons and off it goes to my favourites folder to look in once in a while. Not exactly one of the trials of Hercules....
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  #50  
Old 8 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
A personal website has infinitely more scope for creativity and content, and I can't see why either of those characteristics should be frowned upon.
There some are some awesome websites and Hubert's is certainly one of the most fun
But I haven't seen it in two years. Forgot totally about him cause I don't go to the E-zine that often. I read much of his early travels, just no time to look at all that is out there. What a character!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
One need only look at The Timeless Ride Hubert Kriegel BMW Motorcycle Raid World Travel Sidecar Adventure Gespann Nor would it accurate to say that being a personal website has somehow limited internet traffic or stiffled interest. Loads of people follow Hubert.
I'm sure he gets good numbers. How many hits?

But I'll pick just a few ride reports from ADV to give you an idea of what REALLY big numbers look like. The Striking Viking bumming the World leads the pack!
Striking Viking bumming the world (Holed up in Mexico) - ADVrider
1,935,000 views
5,867 pages

I'm pretty sure the stats were re-set to zero at one point, so I believe view numbers may even be higher than shown above. The Viking himself may the true number. Still, staggering participation from a site which on average has
a couple thousand on line.

Here is another good ride report, but far fewer hits/views/pages. You won't find better pics anywhere, on any web site. World Rider (Alan) has been on the road a long time. He does Videos and Pod Casts too.
Riding The Middle East: WorldRider Journeys On. - ADVrider
248,000 views
1700 pages

South America: Until our Luck or Money Runs Out - ADVrider
235,000 views
1474 pages
The Sequin Brothers S. America trip linked above, was relatively short. Just a few months. But look at all the posts and views in this short time. I never did find out how much money they collected once they set up a Pay Pal account to further their travels. I sent $25 US. I'd wager it's in the thousands of dollars.

Guys with Web sites do this .... but there are seveal RR on ADV where thousands have been raised to help the rider continue. I wish HU had those kinds of numbers too ... but if we had to put up with Jomomma, then 2nd thought, might not wish that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
Other reasons maybe that a traveller wants to publish sponsor details for those who have supported them or, indeed, charities that are benefitting from the ride. It is also easier for those who are not members of HUBB to follow or get updates, eg friends and family.
Ah Ha! Now we're getting to the truth about all this. As usual, it's all about money .... specifically, making money

I now see the problem Web site fans have here.
1. you can't advertise your sponsors in a HUBB RR.
2. You can't sell your T-Shirts, stickers or whatever.
3. You can't sell your book or film.

But you know what? I bet you can with a special "arrangement" with Grant.
My guess is that you could have specific software place your sponsors in margins when YOUR report is up. Pretty doable I would imagine.

Also, HUBB has had instant email notification since day one. Signing up for HUBB is free and takes about 3 minutes. In the meantime, anyone, member or not, can view any page from anywhere world wide.

Last I checked there is no limit on text on HUBB. Pics? I'm not sure. I've posted thousands, never a problem.

The Cool thing about Ride Reports is the interactivity. Lets say your on the road in Russia and your sister or brother has a child. They can post pics anytime right on your Ride Report. I'm sure some Blogs and Web pages allow this, but is it as easy as V-Bulletin used on the HU ?

Grant now also has Video link capability. I'm too lazy to learn it but will at some point. I've lots of on board riding films and getting more all the time.

Cheers,

Patrick
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  #51  
Old 8 Feb 2009
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Stop Press

DRZ sold . Ace Cafe was ace.

cheers
Chris
PS. With saying the following, I am in no way wishing to cause offence to anyone, flame anyone or anything of that sort.. This is also off topic. As this is the Bar, rather than the more "serious" rest of the HUBB, I really do hope no one takes offence:

There are subtle differences between US and UK English. We all know about aluminium vs aluminum. The word "bumming" was mentioned in the above discussion. In UK English it can mean hanging out, chilling etc, but it is also a declination of the verb to have homosexual "sexual intercourse"...

PPS. Just off to look for my wife's fanny pack...
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  #52  
Old 8 Feb 2009
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Also, DO NOT ask in America " Where can I buy some fags" !!!
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  #53  
Old 8 Feb 2009
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Patrick.

I think your points are all valid but specifically in a given context based on two assumptions: one it is partly or all about money: yet it may not be for many, and, two that people want lots of hits.... Those are assumptions and not universally applicable by any standards. Taking Hubert's site as an example again: no merchandise, no books, T-shirts etc, just a bloke telling his story, his way....

Personally speaking, I wrote my blog because I did not have HTML or JAVA know-how (although DIY site-builders are now more available) and I just wanted a place where my mates, family, work colleagues and any other punters who enjoyed our tale could have a read.... that is it, and TBH my motivation would be the same be it on here as a RR or a full web page for our future Africa or Asia trips...

Some people may have some sort of financial motive be it for themselves or a charity they are hoping to assist, but not all. As for interactivity, I am more likely to view someone's site, than join a forum for the privilege.

We all know what a great place the HUBB is, but to a non-motorcyclist, what is the draw to join? As for interactivity, my blog had an email or comment function and loads of people said their 2p worth and Hubert has his own forum, too.

Nothing has really changed for me: if I go away for a day trip, or a week or few here and there I would happily do a ride report (pic upload allowing), but for longer trips I feel my own website would give me the self expression I want to show what I want, how I want....

With respect to pictures, if you are not inserting a URL, then the limit for a JPEG is 40kb as an uploaded attachment: this is a lot less than other sites where I have posted pics (eg a max of 1000KB per post, and that could be 1 pic or 100). Given that I do not use a web-hosting picture library like smugmug but my HD, posting on HUBB is not an easy job: each pic needs to be edited...

I'm all for RRs on here, if it suits the posters needs, but I don't see how or why they would replace personal websites.
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  #54  
Old 9 Feb 2009
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Trolling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
Patrick
Get off my fricking case. I was giving MY opinion about RRs in general and adv RRs in particular. My site, your site, his site, her site etc have nothing to do with anything.
You better re-read and try to understand the intent of the post you quouted of mine.

Chris, Buddy! It's not about YOU, and I'm NOT trolling you.
It's about C O M M U N I T Y. That was the whole point I was making .... I thought it was pretty obvious, sorry if you thought I was coming after you, I wasn't, but you left yourself Wide Open in the previous post stating all Ride Reports are crap. Get it?

I'm just a guy who would like to see the riding community more "together".

I happen to agree, as I stated earlier, there are dismal reports aplenty to go round, whether web site, Blog or HUBB RR. But reports on HUBB will get more immediate feedback and writers will have the opportunity to learn and get better based on this feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
If you think my site is sh*t, fine. Just don't go there. Each to their own.
Once again, NOT ABOUT YOU, CHRIS. The idea is that with a Community of Riders with LOTS of Ride Report to choose, you have a choice and can read or pass on many, and do it all in one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
A personal opinion of mine is: It's a bit rich telling others what they've got is rubbish, if you haven't even got one of your own. It's a bit like getting into a pissing competition and having no tool with which to urinate.
Good reason for this. I get paid to do "ride reports", have done for 20 years. The internet does not pay. Yet. I usually don't work for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
You say you have no website/blog/ridereports. This looks alot like a RR to me: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...survival-34887
I like it alot. Read it last year. It helped to inspire and partly assisted the route planning for my own Baja trip last Christmas/New Year (RR/webpage to come; work in progress. When it appears, remember not to look at it, it'll be sh*t).
Doubt I'll see it unless you cross post it on Ride Tales or link it.
Glad you liked my Baja thing. I did this little piece because some HUBB guys kept asking me via PM's about Baja. I am not a Baja expert .... but ride with a few. So I put this up. I thought it was half baked.

I'm not currently doing magazine work so may, at some point do a few more reports. I've been working on a book for a while. Someday it may be finished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
I'm off to try to sell the DRZ, then down to the overlander show at the Ace Cafe.
cheers
Chris
Congrats on the DRZ sale. I hated selling mine. Best desert bike I ever had.

Cheers,

Patrick

Last edited by mollydog; 9 Feb 2009 at 18:06.
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  #55  
Old 9 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
Some people may have some sort of financial motive be it for themselves or a charity they are hoping to assist, but not all. As for interactivity, I am more likely to view someone's site, than join a forum for the privilege.
This tendency is changing. Hence my comment about dead websites. Do you know how many new members ADV gets each day? Do you think these guys go searching for obscure web sites?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
Nothing has really changed for me: if I go away for a day trip, or a week or few here and there I would happily do a ride report (pic upload allowing), but for longer trips I feel my own website would give me the self expression I want to show what I want, how I want....
I get this. A good web site can like a movie .... your movie. I like that idea. You have total control in terms of look and feel of the site as well as content. If a site is good enough it will get return visits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
With respect to pictures, if you are not inserting a URL, then the limit for a JPEG is 40kb as an uploaded attachment: this is a lot less than other sites where I have posted pics (eg a max of 1000KB per post, and that could be 1 pic or 100). Given that I do not use a web-hosting picture library like smugmug but my HD, posting on HUBB is not an easy job: each pic needs to be edited...
I could not do anything on line without Smug Mug. I can send in any size file I want, including RAW files and do nothing. Videos too. It is NOT FREE .... good service never is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
I'm all for RRs on here, if it suits the posters needs, but I don't see how or why they would replace personal websites.
Well, not replace .... yet But I see supporting HUBB and other similar sites the same as supporting the rider community and staying in touch with those out on the road.

Thanks for the response!

Patrick
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  #56  
Old 9 Feb 2009
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No offense gents, but if I may make a request, please try to all get along.

I do find most contributions to be insightful, educational, and on occasion uplifting. The shared commraderie is one of the most enjoyable features of this fairly close knit group.

The arguements, which can never be resolved through online banter, are one of the least enjoyable and I would argue a big reason that people move on, or refrain from participating in the first place.

If this were a real bar, I'd be happy to buy youse all a and we could all get back to talking about important things, like bikes.

So an e- is on it's way to all, they can be redeemed for the real thing anytime anyone visits Vancouver.

And how about an informal policy that one of the unwritten rules of the site is to be respectful of all users and when an inevitable disagreement arises, you are entitled to a single to and for, and after that additional discussions between the parties takes place via pm or email?

It may be that another way to make this site stand out from all the others is it becomes known for the wisdom and experience of it's users, their generosity with information and advice, and their kindness and civility to fellow riders and site users.

Peace out.
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  #57  
Old 9 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
This tendency is changing. Hence my comment about dead websites.
Where does this info come from, though? Personally, I can only account for my use and my preferences on the internet: I could only guess at what the millions of other surfers are looking for and how they like it presented.

I'm not saying either scenario is not happening, just that one does not preclude the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
Do you know how many new members ADV gets each day? Do you think these guys go searching for obscure web sites?
Increased traffic on ADV isn't an indicator of dropping p-websites, IMO. Do all these guys on ADV have travel aspirations like those we promote on here? Do they, in fact, ride anymore than a blast on the back roads at the weekend? Who knows...

It seems we are coming back to this point of hit-rates.
For me, a non-commercial publisher, it would be no more important than the pleasant knowledge that many are (hopefully) enjoying what I have written.

Regarding picture uploads, I am still just going to upload from my camera to the site in question. Publishing RRs as much as I'd like to, its not a motive enough to enter into a subscribed service...
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  #58  
Old 9 Feb 2009
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Moderator

Chris....thanks for your thoughtful reply....like many things, we often respond to what we see, not what we don't see...your role as moderator is important to the HUBB and if there's been 'history' - then I can see some frustration emerging.

Someone mentioned that travelling, either around the world or to the country next door, can open up one's humility and humanity....regretfully, it seems to me, based on my rather limited experience on various travel related websites.. little of that sentiment that emerges from 'real travel' seems to translate readily onto the web.....most often the jomomma style seems, sadly, to be more the norm.

Mark Twain said: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime".

Too bad using the internet doesn't produce the same fatalities noted by Twain.

Stephen
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  #59  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Fruit

Well after all the talk is done you need to get over to the Ride Report section and see the 8 little ride reports beginning to blossom over there.If you support them they might grow.
See Australia,Israel,Russia,Mexico the Himalayas and the Grand Canyon.
More fun than all the newly found civilized discussion you,ve been having!!!
Al theturtleshead
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