Motorcyclists at the head of a group of riders will face stiffer penalties for speeding under a crown court ruling.
Being the lead rider in a group is an aggravating factor making you partly responsible for speeding offences of those behind you according to the decision.
The ruling can be applied in any future cases where two or more motorcyclists riding together are accused of speeding. The head rider might be only a few mph over the limit but could be given the same penalty as the worst offender behind.
Road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “Any crown court decision can be stated in future cases. This is potentially a very dangerous judgment for motorcyclists.
"Riders in a group change position frequently.
“If you are riding at the front any group at excess speed, then the very fact you’re at the front is an aggravating factor.”
Ken Clark, 49, reached 85mph on his Yamaha R1 while leading a group of three riders on the 60mph A272 near Rogate, Sussex, last June.
The speed is within the usual threshold for a fixed penalty of three points and a £60 fine.
But Chichester Crown Court ruled he should receive the same penalty as a following rider accused of going 103mph.
Barrister notes on the ruling given to Clark after the hearing state: ‘Although his was the lesser speed, [the bench] found it an aggravating feature that he was the lead motorcyclist, was setting the pace and he knew that the other two motorcyclists would want to catch him up and would be speeding to do so.’
The court rejected Clark’s appeal against six points, a £100 fine and £250 court costs.
Clark said: “This should have been three points and a £60 fine but so far it’s cost me £2,500 including solicitors’ bills and I have six points on a licence which has been clean for the last 24 years.”
Clark’s solicitor, Philip Somarakis, said 103mph was the speed reached by a police officer on an unmarked bike while tailing Clark's two friends, but the prosecution accepted it was not possible to prove from video evidence that Clark himself had exceeded 85mph.
“The gist of the ruling is that to be a lead motorcyclist makes you somehow responsible for the actions of those behind you,” he added.
Gary Baldwin, former police motorcyclist and co-director of advanced riding school Rapid Training, said: “It's a dangerous precedent to suggest you are now responsible for someone who's in control of another vehicle.
"How do I control what they do? If someone is following me and I get in an overtake that they don't, they may go faster to catch up but that is their choice.”

If you support the overturning of this ruling, then use the below link to add your name to the petition.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Lead-Biker-Fined/

Much as I support the motive, count me out.

I see no good reason to allow the present information paranoid, snooping government to gather more information of me and further categorise my interests and potential nuisance to them or the authorities they are politically in charge of.

Such No. 10 petitions are just that. They learn ones name, address, IP number and Email address in one simple way.
If someone with a form of autism, from the comfort of his home, can defeat all the security systems of the strongest military in the World by hacking into the Pentagon computors, think what the state can do with such identity information willingly given.

I am thinking of changing my member name to 'No 7' except Grant generally does not allow changes!
(One for the older riders!)

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

This is annoying but will be thrown out on appeal. The prosecution already admitted defeat and must have been well shocked to actually win.

The notes don't say if all the offenses were tried together but it sounds like they were. I'd sack my solicitor for allowing that.

They key to this is probably what was said at the road side and worst of all stopping when one rider gets pulled. You can't help a mate who was speeding so why stop and present a second target? If you are asked if you are riding as a group the answer is "No, we are not an organised group, we are a friends going to the same place". If you are asked how fast you think you were going it's "60 mph" or "just under the speed limit". Do not converse with these officious numpties on their unmarked tax collection devices, the only point of the whole convesation is to gather enough evidence to hang yourself, so say as little as possible and they'll go pick one someone else. Not doing "about 85 mph" helps of course.

I agree the petition is a waste of time, but I'll sign anyway, they already know where I live.

Andy

This seems an excellent precedent. If it discourages irresponsible riding, good. If it results in irresponsible riders being punished, good. If it results in their being banned, better still. What part of the 60mph limit don't they understand? I don't get the pack mentality, and, other than for track days, I don't see the point of sports bikes. On the three occasions I've run foul of the law on two wheels since I first rode in 1964 (two in 1966), I've paid up without complaint. I know when I'm in the wrong. If you don't want to be fined/collect points/be banned you know the answer, it's not rocket science.

Oh, and it was "Number Six"

Off to the bike show at the NEC now, on my bike.

Regards, Mick

Where did this report come from ?

I do like the statement about not giving information.

IPS are now required to keep the information about you, IP, name, addrress, site history and if that doesn't alarm you, they get to record all of your email headers too! Fortunatly the Governement in the UK hasn't had time to alter the Computer Missue Act or the Post Office Act to allow them to look at the content without an Order of the Court, but no doubt that will come along too, hidden under some bad news about another dead, kidnapping of natural disaster.

I do tend to agree with the overal view that if someone is speeding then they get whats coming to them.

And it's sound advice to deny you are riding as an organised group - not only does this set you aside from the other individuals, but there are insurance implications to group riding too, should something go wrong.

Remember though that Roads Policing Officers are there when it all goes wrong, they are the one telling loved ones of death, hospitalisation or worse, the fact your mate/brother/sister/son/daughter etc has killed someone else. So give them a brake when they give you the third degree form speeding. They are trying to save you from yourself, and others from your potential mistakes.

I used to ride with some guys who liked the buzz of speed, but now I don't, I preffer to ride solo but when I do ride in group I like to be with guys who keep the speed sensible - it helps having a bike that doesn't encourage speeding, but at the end of the day it's all about attitude.

Personally, I don't sign these any more, they do little good as it's just lip service, that generates a prescribed reponse from the PM at the end - then destined for the archive tapes for a few years. It's a fact then the easier it is to start these petitions, the more will be generated and it comes down to information overload, that is never looked at!

Much better for the MAG to take this up in the coridors of Westminister.

I'll get off my soapbox now! Sun's out so it's

Simples - stay within the speed limits .. obey the law.

Maybe live a little longer in the process.




.

__________________
Right Way Round ...

"obey the law" - fair enough but I'm not taking the blame for someone else's carelessness whether I know them or not...

__________________
Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk

I can't believe that some people are supporting this prosecution...

Lets take the following scenario....
Rider 1 is riding right on the speed limit.....
Rider 2 is 5 mph over the limit to catch up...
Rider 3 is 10 mph over the limit to catch up....

Is Rider 1 responsible for the actions of those following him..
Does he still deserve to be prosecuted Mick.

NO

__________________
The electric monk always has faith.

When stopped for speeding who hasn't heard this -

Police officer;" Who the Hell do you think you are laddie -- Barry Sheene ?"

[ OK I'm old ! ]

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

This is outrageous .
How can you be legally responsible for the actions of people following you ?
What defines a group ?
If someone just tags along behind you ,are you now a group ?

All this sanctimonius twaddle about "obeying the law " is laughable , every single person reading this has broken some law at some time .Speeding - we've all done it !
Bloody hell ,when I was a kid I used to find a big hill and tear down it on my pedal bike at over 30 mph .
I don't imagine the old codger pedalling to work at the factory with his flat cap and sandwiches wrapped in wax paper would be happy to be held responsible for me speeding on my pedal bike !!!!!!!!!!!

As for being worried about the government getting your particulars , they already know and have done for some time . I don't think the stormtroopers will be coming yet to snatch you from your bed at dawn ,just because you are a "motorcyclist " - but then again they might !
It might be better to buy a nice sensible motorcar in a shade of grey that won't draw attention .

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

What a mixed bunch posted so far in this thread, I can't believe they way a few support the courts

Good on 'Dodger' and a few others that are against these ideas, sorry, but the rest of you are spineless.

__________________
'He who laughs last, was too slow to get the joke'
Never confuse the map with the journey.

funny enough, me and my mate were on our way back from huddersfield this aft when we were spot stopped by about 12 coppers. my mate was leading (ish) and he had a dodgy front 'L' plate (actually he had a pathetic excuse for an 'L' plate, he might as well have stuck a dead fish on the front of his bike) I believe this was the sole reason we BOTH got stopped. Irony is, he was sent off to get a new 'L' plate and bring it back, and I had to face up to johnny law and friends as they inspected my bike.

To that point, I was very happy with the questions they asked and the rituals I was asked to perform. I was notified of a worn down rear break pad and given a full reason why we were stopped. Professional job in my opinion, none of this "the police are rulling us" s***e experienced.

As for the matter in hand, each person on this earth is acountable for his/or her actions. I wouldnt shoot some one in the head and expect to see the bloke who sold me the gun sent down. I dont expect anyone behind me in a group to keep the same speed, its their prerogative.

peace and love.

[quote=tommysmithfromleeds;266371]funny enough, me and my mate were on our way back from huddersfield this aft when we were spot stopped by about 12 coppers. my mate was leading (ish) and he had a dodgy front 'L' plate (actually he had a pathetic excuse for an 'L' plate, he might as well have stuck a dead fish on the front of his bike) I believe this was the sole reason we BOTH got stopped. Irony is, he was sent off to get a new 'L' plate and bring it back, and I had to face up to johnny law and friends as they inspected my bike.

To that point, I was very happy with the questions they asked and the rituals I was asked to perform. I was notified of a worn down rear break pad and given a full reason why we were stopped.


This is how it should be done ,IMHO, send the silly bugger off to get a new L plate ,no prosecutions , no fines ,just a simple lesson to "not be a twat ".

If they tell you why you were stopped ,and you listen and learn ,then you will avoid grief in the future . Smile, call them sir ,and then once they are out of sight -----------!

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

Whats an 'L' plate ?

__________________
'He who laughs last, was too slow to get the joke'
Never confuse the map with the journey.

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."