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  #31  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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Cbt

I was one of these folk that took 4 days to do the CBT I could have passed it after 2 days but I was not happy about my skills and instead of moving onto the bigger bikes I stayed on the 125 to work on the riding and left the africa twin in the garage.
In the 6 months after that I drove all winter which in the north of scotland is some pretty unpleasant weather, most of it in low light and the dark and luckily at low traffic times on main route north of aberdeen.
I had 2 accidents during this time one my fault[misjudges corner hit cow slurry at side of road] the other caused by a lorry running me off the road by pulling up my side to overtake and pulling in while I was still up the side of him. The first resulted in a huge bruise along my ankle and a very sore butt which would ahve been alot worse if I hadnt been wearing mx boots and full gear. The second sore nads from sliding up onto the tank but if it wasnt for the nice long driveway and soft verge I would have been under the wheels of the lorry.
I gave up on the idea of bikes[2wheels want a sidecar outfit] because its simply so dangerous, not the speed, not the chance of sliding but simply because despite wearing high viz gear or being in broad daylight car drivers either treat you like crap or dont even look for you I have had so many near misses with idiots pulling out in front of me it is unreal even on straight roads with no excuse for not seeing me my bike does 50mph max its like they look right through you! I am not talking about filtering but riding down the middle of the road.

The current CBt is ideal for those that already have riding experience as then it can concentrate on riding in traffic ,hazard awareness, road handling ect and not changing gears riding smoothly and knowing how to handle the bike. To let someone who has never set foot on a bike before ride on the road after 8 hours instruction is nuts.

I will say this though there has been a large number of fatal bike accidents in my area since the start of this year, not one of them was a learner or inexperienced biker many had been riding a long time, 9 out of 10 have involved cars most have involved cars pulling out.

there has been twice as many people killed by learner drivers in cars, nearly all of them involving speed or utter stupidity
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  #32  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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know how you feel

as you pointed out pictise more learner bikers die then leanrer car drivers, probably more to do with the fact bikes dont have metal shells more then riding stupidly.

its a shame you were put off bikes but is does require having to get through your first few months, maybe even years, until you can see the hazards coming. i ride around leeds city centre a lot and at first i was shaken to the bone when i got home, but you find your groove and settle down.

theres no point a CBT being there for people with bike experience, cause its there for learners. as preiviously stated it needs major work though.

where bouts in scotland are ya from?
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  #33  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pictish View Post
there has been twice as many people killed by learner drivers in cars, nearly all of them involving speed or utter stupidity
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommysmithfromleeds View Post
as you pointed out pictise more learner bikers die then leanrer car drivers, probably more to do with the fact bikes dont have metal shells more then riding stupidly.
Tommy, mate, he said the opposite.
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  #34  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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Cars are a problem too. Had to "have words" with a yoof driving his Citroen C1 beastie like a t*** last night.

Dunno if its just me getting old or whether 17 year olds are getting more immature but I think its time that the driving age went up to 18, or even keep it at 17 but must be supervised for a year like learners. Maybe after a year, the novelty of being let loose on the road will start to wear off.

You can do your test on a 125cc. Just means you're restricted to 33bhp for a couple of years. At least then you'll get some decent tuition in and the bigger bikes have more "road presence". Having said that, I know people who have been knocked off bright white, ex-police Pan-Europeans, while wearing white lids and hi-vis H-belts so I'd agree that you've got to start looking at the (lack of) competence of car drivers.
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  #35  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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D'oh!

Thanks Alex didn't read the post properly. I just naturally presumed the sats would be in a car drivers favour!

I do apologise pictish. although if were talking UK stats here, thats a little bit to say learner drivers have to book lessons and sit with instructors. or have an expreienced driver present. do you mean people who have just passed their test?

sorry for the confusion.
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  #36  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig76 View Post
Dunno if its just me getting old or whether 17 year olds are getting more immature but I think its time that the driving age went up to 18, or even keep it at 17 but must be supervised for a year like learners. Maybe after a year, the novelty of being let loose on the road will start to wear off.


.
Totally agree. And while they are at it combine the theory tests, so if you do if for a 50 you don't have to do it again for your car test. The more worthwhile it is for 16 year old's to get a 50, the more they'll look out for bikes once they've got the boom box Corsa, C1, daddies mondeo etc.

Won't happen of course as well as the outcry from all the little darlings who are a day too young, HM forces would loose a recruiting point or gain a liability issue and the test centres would be short of business for 12 months.

Andy
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  #37  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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Absolutely but I'd add that the theory test should also be a prerequisite for the CBT. That's going to put some off, possibly due to cost, but like Pictish said, raw novice to on the road in a day is madness.
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  #38  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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soz meant people who have just passed car test compared to those let loose after cbt, you can get "P" signs up here is you have just passed your car test to warn other drivers.
Those metal shells really dont help them too much when they go off a corner or hit another car at 60+mph especially when theres drystone walls and trees incolved.

Im from just south of peterhead little village called crudenbay.

It is putting people with very little experience behind very powerful machines that kills so many.

The seperate written test is a joke why is it taken seperate for a car and bike everything in it is nearly the same apart from the mechanical based questions.The hazard spotting exercise is stupid as well as being on a road riding/driving down a street is not the same as sitting in front of a computer with headphones on in a quiet room where your not trying to control a vehicle at the same time. A full on simulator would at least give some sort of idea, you might as well go to the arcades and play one of those driving or biking games for realism. In towns everything is a hazard, parked cars, lemming grannies, kids ,dogs, other road users, giant pot holes, push bikes and alot you dont see until the last minute.


The Uk does have tougher driving test than some countries, but others like finland go that one step further and teach alot more about vehicle control and have a longer learning period before you get a full license I think they also start earlier. The advanced driving courses you can get over here for insurance reductions should be made compulsory.

Regarding wearing proper gear unless it is made law[ a seatbelt is so why isnt proper riding gear] then people will not wear it, the amount of times I see guys on big sports bikes doing silly speeds with trainers, jeans tracksuits and maybe just their lid and a jacket shows this. I even got laughed at when I got off my 125 next to some guys on their sports bikes not one of them had a full set of gear on, while i was wearing full gear. Besides once I got in the club the high viz vest just looked retro raver.

The only way the roads will become safer for everyone is if driving like a complete tosser becomes as unacceptable as drink driving has become. The uk has the same issues with those that have just passed their test as those that have just started drinking its the none to everything syndrome, If kids started getting lessons in school 2 years before sitting their tests then the urge to drive like a lunatic may not be there and they will have far better skills making them safer drivers.
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  #39  
Old 29 Jul 2009
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sorry to be pedantic pictish, i think your ideas are spot on. there are some ideas raised that should be considered for real"

getting new riders/drivers starting to learn early, maybe in school if they can afford. it would make better use of their time rather than religious studies and general studies.

braking down the testing process. is it finland where they spend close to a decade driving off road and on road before they have to pass a test? sounds good. i would relish professional motorcycle tuition if it covered every aspect of riding then just council estates!
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