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  #16  
Old 23 Apr 2008
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If its a breach of international law why has not any one brought the US up on charges?
So if no one sues you it’s ok to commit a crime and you should keep doing it?

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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
Thats on the UN not the USA. when is the last time any one else in all the Americas sent in 50,000 troops to do anything let alone Sweeden or Norway
Most countries think that there are more rational ways to solve problems then to send 50.000 troops. Right now the Norwegian army has a problem in Iraq and Afghanistan because according to international law we are not allowed to hand over prisoners to people that might torture them. It makes the situation a bit odd that we can’t hand over prisoners of war to the guys that runs the prisons (guess you know where they are from).

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Kyoto grate idea but the US I huge with massive population all with most cars getting under 15 MPG we cant make the quotas the writers knew that when they wrote it, a little dig at the USA auto makers. If we where as small and had a population to match we do it. Any ever see nuclear waste dumps in Europe? The Navy hears them dumping in the north Atlantic.
US still among the worst countries in the world pro-capita. The population is less dense as a few European countries, but you have hotter climate and should therefore burn less fossil fuel. So this doesn’t make sense.

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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
Have you read a few newspapers the last years? have you read the crap that the USA papers print?
Yes and I think this is big a part of the problem. If you read only junk it will affect your way of thinking (same goes with TV).
On the other hand, who makes the newspapers? It’s certainly not AL-Qaeda

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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
Visited some countries in the Middle East? Most wont let in some one from the US. The whole death to America, beheadings and burning people alive has me a little down about spending my money there that and my trip planing has gone to hell this last few years doller going down the pooper, losing contracts, and me being depressed.
This should make someone start to think… Why do they not like you? How should you solve this problem?


A strange story:
I spend quite some time in Khartoum (2002). The City is divided in three parts by the Nile and there are some bridges connecting the different parts.
There are no lights on the bridges and what amazed me was that at night the cars turned their lights off when they crossed the bridges. For me it was quite scary and I didn’t like to cross the bridges with a motorbike at night.

The locals told me they shut of the light because they where afraid that US should bomb their bridges. It had been like this since US bombed Al Shifa ( Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ). It was a common belief that the bombing was the indirect reason for a few thousand dead civilians, mostly childrens. (Because there became a shortage in Malaria and TB-medicines).
Try to think how it would be if it was like that in your own city.

They also told me that US was looking for another country to invade to cover up the mess in Afghanistan and that the war against terror was not working. They where afraid Sudan was next on the list. Luckily (for them) it was wrong; Iraq was invaded 6 months later.

You can find stories like that from lots of countries…


Many people will probably look at this as US-bashing and start to argue. For me this proves a point, a lot of people are not interested in becoming any better. It’s better to defend own faults then to try to listen and understand.
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  #17  
Old 23 Apr 2008
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I think your politicians are the main cause of this. They see themselves as the world's policeman and get involved in conflicts where the enemy happens to be a near backward country that is little or no threat to them, such as the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, etc, though Vietnam probably didn't work out the way they planned. At the other end of the scale, they don't do enough to sort the countries who really could pose a threat such as Iran, China, North Korea, etc.

The American's I've met have all been really nice people and the opposite of the fat, stupid, gun toting, pick-up driving stereotype so that's a good thing.

But your cars are still crap
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  #18  
Old 23 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
If its a breach of international law why has not any one brought the US up on charges?
Damn good question. I think the fact that there has been no attempt made to punish the US administration (and the UK I guess, although we were 'just following orders' (as poor an excuse as it ever has been)) is one of the things that the rest of the world finds so infuriating. One of the main reasons the UN was established was so that one country couldn't just invade another one without an agreement that it would be in the best interest of the citizens of that country and global security. Going against a UN resolution and invading a Sovereign country to secure their natural resources is to say the least, out of order.

As public opinion in the US is becoming ever more polarised and the "2-week" war is turning into another vietnam maybe we'll see a revolution. Doesn't the US constitution give its citizens the right to bear arms against an oppressive government?
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  #19  
Old 23 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
Yeah, but what did the Romans ever do for us....apart from Aquaducts, sewers, roads.......

Andy
Andy,
I had to leave a bit of room for all credit to the Romans!
Mind, they were not very nice to this guy:-
A History of St George
who, even today, is better known and remembered in many countries of Europe, and other parts of the world, in contrast to England.

Despite the credit given previously to various other European nations, the Brits have been the best at running other countries in recent history and, arguably, in all known history: ask anyone from Malta what they think about the French who ruled them for a couple of years until the Brits kicked them out.

About St G. Things are changing, slowly:-
Branches of the Society

DLBiten,
I guess you have a sufficiently wide ranging answer to your valid question.
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  #20  
Old 23 Apr 2008
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Maybe Jerry Springer was onto something?

I saw Jerry Springer interviewed once (quite an intelligent guy!).

He claimed his TV show could only work in the USA. When asked why - he had said no-one was paid to go on his show and there were no professional actors, so you need a population happy and willing to humiliate themselves publicly, and in his opinion only about 10% of any population would be of that ilk - and that in the USA that meant 25,000,000 people...

Just a theory...

Seriously, everyone likes to take a shot at the guy on top from time to time - in Australia we call it the "tall poppy syndrome". And it's easy to find fault in anyone's work. I think most here have nailed it on the head - the people charged with presenting an image of the USA to the world (ie the govt.) could be doing a better job. (Thank God we have a new govt ourselves...)

Personally I have some great mates from the US, and hope to get there one day - everyone I've met say the people are friendly and hospitable.

Damien
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  #21  
Old 23 Apr 2008
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Who?

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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
If its a breach of international law why has not any one brought the US up on charges?
Who could do it? The only body with the "legal" right to do so is probably the UN. While a lot of members would love to take a pop at the US, if only to take attention away from their own human rights abuses (what credibility would an action brought by China, Myanmar and Zimbabwe have for example?), where is the willingness to ACT rather than just talking?

I'm not at all sure this is what the UN sees as its role anyway - where is the opportunity to rape young girls in exchange for food aid, or enrich yourself and your family off the back of donors, or even simply enjoy the innocent pleasure of pushing other people round (the thing that attracts such shining stars into politics in the first place)?

The world needs a body with a similar mandate to the UN, but honest and ethical. Quite how you create such a body and keep it that way I do not know.
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  #22  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by dpdaniel View Post
I saw Jerry Springer interviewed once (quite an intelligent guy!).

He claimed his TV show could only work in the USA. When asked why - he had said no-one was paid to go on his show and there were no professional actors, so you need a population happy and willing to humiliate themselves publicly, and in his opinion only about 10% of any population would be of that ilk - and that in the USA that meant 25,000,000 people...
You want to watch the Jeremy Kyle Show. I'm fairly sure the participants get some form of payment but they really are the dregs of society in the UK. I don't watch it often but I remember Jeremy asking one of these bagheads about how her own childhood was and she replied, "My Mum was a good parent, apart from that time when we were taken into care".

Seriously though, watching it is a kind of therapy. It makes you realise that no matter how bad life gets, there's always someone further up shit creek without a paddle than you.
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  #23  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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The International Criminal Court (I.C.C.) located in the Hague, Netherlands can try the US.

If no one stops a crimanal he is not going to stop him self.

The US is a producer we make things when you make stuff and you your a rich wasteful git you tend pollute. Most of the US pollution is from a vary few huge companies. Making them stop will just lose the US more jobs. Posing that and you stuff your chances at reelection. As it happens If you look at Europen history at the start of the industrial revolution it was as bad as the US ever was. You had a few World Wars cleared all that junk out and moved what was left of the production to the rest of the world including the US. WE are in slow process of moving it 3rd world now allowing them the fun and health benefits of destroying there environment just like we have for 100 or so years. As far as environment Scandinavians are not saints Environmental Enemy Number 1? Reine - a Norwegian Fishing and Whaling Community had to look at the head line. But as you see Norway wont follow a no whaling ban that make Norway bad? no there following there way of life the same as most Americans.

One of the major problems the US faces is not the cold its the heat. Cooling takes more power than heating and power generation pollutes when you dont have thermal vents, hydroelectric, or clean gas we have cheap derty coal. We have hydroelectric where I live but thats not good for the environment just Co2 emissions. Here there thinking of boring in to the crust miles deep to make a man made thermal vent to try to cut down on US power emissions. Its not like we are not trying.
The population densities in the US Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia we are spread out on the map moving an item from Seattle to Miami is about Oslo to Baghdad that trucks emishions in the US is all in the US from Oslo you get to split it up 10 times. (Think about doing this trip this year! Seattle to Miami)

Who makes the newspapers? google yellow journalism. Rich basterds looking for fools to do there derty work and pay to do it. Will not mater if its the people running the USA or the rich basterds running AL-Qaeda. Same reason same outcome.

We can use the guns on oppressive governments but to get the job done right we need a nuke you realy want a foolish Texas redneck to have one? Oh thats right never mind.

Bastardisation of the English language? old English? or one of the newer ones? seems the people in the UK do as a good job on as the US. History of the English language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope people question there own press as much as I question mine. If the "freest press in the world" will lie what will yours do?

yeah I got some answer. Having lots of fun to!

I dont get UK TV here so I dont know about the TV shows
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  #24  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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British Television is a true bastion of unbiased fact based news and well-balanced representations of public opinion........ anyone for Kilroy (unfortunately you don't get this, or at least I hope you don't!). Unfortunately as Britain is getting stupider at a semi-exponential rate its only going to get worse.
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  #25  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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.... a nuke you realy want a foolish Texas redneck to have one? Oh thats right never mind.
mmmm, I would worry for all of us if a Texas redneck had his finger on the button........
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  #26  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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As far as environment Scandinavians are not saints Environmental Enemy Number 1? Reine - a Norwegian Fishing and Whaling Community had to look at the head line. But as you see Norway wont follow a no whaling ban that make Norway bad? no there following there way of life the same as most Americans.
If you want this to be informative it could be wise to bash other countries in a separate thread. There is a lot of subjects..

It’s funny that you mention the whale-stuff. The US went out really hard on that one, before they realized they where wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLbiten (link) View Post
The US authorities, too, have openly acknowledged (in May 1993 note to Iceland and Norway) that these minke whale stocks are capable of being harvested on a sustainable basis.
Well, at least it was just a boycott and bad publicity, they didn’t let the bombs fall.


I’m not surprised to see that the rest of your post proves that there is not much will to solve the problems.
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  #27  
Old 25 Apr 2008
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yes yes the uber boycott. Did nothing. You know how many the USA has going on it?

To see what the US is doing with the enviernment. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
try Kyoto in the search.

Will has little to do with fixing problems.
Please dont look to my post for prof of anything. But as your not surprised by my post I did not know many Americans are asking the USA to be taken to task on perceived slights by the a world court.

Did I vote for the war? nope the citizens dont get to presidential order and congress allocates the money. Do I like it nope.

Norway has troops out there so you didnt find another way. We gust put more out there than you.

How can I make someone like me? The Billions of $ over the years dint do it. They hate me because Im not them If they kill the US off they will gust go on to the next. AL-Qaeda are not the good guys. I dont want to post there web sights there ahhhh unsettling.

Dint mean to off my own topic but you are the one bring up Kyoto protocols. There only to do with greenhouse gas. I just openend the enviernmental Idea up a little. for the people at home Kyoto Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kyoto cant be enforce but the world can impose trade sanctions on the US for not doing it. like this EU leaders urge trade sanctions on U.S., China

Think the new US leadership will change anything?

Hope I get more replies.

Last edited by DLbiten; 25 Apr 2008 at 06:28.
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  #28  
Old 25 Apr 2008
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To see what the US is doing with the enviernment. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
try Kyoto in the search.
In 2002 the CO2 emissions from us was 5,773 million tons, China had 3,783 million tons.
Lets say that Chinas level (per capita) rises to the US-level (why should the US be allowed to have a higher level then China?).
The CO2 emissions from China alone will then reach 26,6 million tons! Disaster…

In India they have said that they will keep the emission level below OECD-average (per capita).
Well, it’s a fair statement but this means that India can increase their total level above the sum of USA, China and Russia! Another disaster…

For various reasons this will probably never happens, but the point is that a lot of countries will increase their emissions and the western world has to reduce their emissions.
The Kyoto was not perfect. It was a start for doing something, but….

This is not only valid for CO2 but various natural resources (power++)

I’m not saying that Europe is doing well here, but on these important subjects the western countries has to cooperate and someone has a problem with that.



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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
Will has little to do with fixing problems.
That’s explains a lot….


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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
Did I vote for the war? nope the citizens dont get to presidential order and congress allocates the money. Do I like it nope.
Sure I guess most Americans don’t like it, most Americans are nice people!

On the other hand it is Americans that controls the American media, it’s Americans who votes for the president, the different candidates are Americans and the president himself is an American.

Democracy has a lot of weak points. Joseph de Maistre once said that “Every country has the government it deserves.”
I’m not saying its true but it’s worth a reflection.


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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
Norway has troops out there so you didnt find another way. We gust put more out there than you.
Yes we have troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan; someone invaded the countries (but most of the world didn’t like it) and UN asked for peacekeeping forces (stupid word).

Do you remember the bashing of France and freedom fries? Freedom fries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
How can I make someone like me? The Billions of $ over the years dint do it. They hate me because Im not them If they kill the US off they will gust go on to the next. AL-Qaeda are not the good guys. I dont want to post there web sights there ahhhh unsettling
Well, the rest of the western world is not “one of them” either and most of them don’t share your problems.



Back in 2001 the US-embassy in Oslo got equipped with huge fences (on the sidewalk!), armed guards and they closed one of the streets going close by. It’s still like this.
I tried to enter once but was not allowed (don’t know why). In most of the other embassies you can walk directly in.
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  #29  
Old 25 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by DLbiten View Post
I dont mean any thing about this and its a little tung in check but why do Europeans bash the USA? They dont like, the politics, the people, the war mongering, the food, hell any thing.


Gust from my point of view its still a bunch of rich White Norther Europeans stealing stuff thats not theres. I mean the USA is good and stealing stuff but nothing like Great Britain dam your the best!


Gust something to think about.
Just going back to your original points and questions:

Yes, Europeans can be jealous of what the States has done and achieved in its short modern history; sometimes this jealousy is by individuals, but more usually it is institutionalised and comes from individual Governments. However, we love you anyway. Many are still coming your way for vacation, travelling with or without a bike - the currency exchange rate is great for us.

No one here seems to disagree: The Brits were the best, ever. In the right place, at the right time and, most of the time, getting in ahead of the others. Then, we would rule in a more or less benign manner, letting the indigenous population do whatever they could manage within their own limited capabilities and technologies.
We just can't hack it anymore. Empires come and go. One of the few times that the French got the better of us was when they helped you guys to force our withdrawal from Yorktown - Cornwallis, our commander, went off to rule and pacify India, which arguably, was a bigger, more important responsibility. Hell, we could not be everywhere, all of the time.
We did manage to burn the Whitehouse though!
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  #30  
Old 26 Apr 2008
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The Kyoto was not perfect. It was a start for doing something, but….
One reson its so flawed is the monitoring and reporting moving a air monitoring station a mile or so up wind can change you co2 reports not a big deal but you know who has the bigest target on them. A satilite net work can be made to moniter C02 with reports sent to all concerned about who and where the greenhouse gas are coming from.
I know I know we help draw the thing up the administration changes and we dont go threw with it. (Happens with internal laws as well I dont think statistics are around on the loss of this, maybe trillions $ the price of an ego the size leader of the free world.) The reason the USA has not gone along with this in money if the world made it more expensive for the US to continue as it is it will change. The US operates under a free market where cheap = good not where doing good = good its a cold cold system. Western countries coorpertion has never worked as well as it can. 2 world wars and a cold war that still has scars. The EU has just been formed and I was ages in the making. We are going slow but with the EU applying pressure to the US it may move thins along with the new administration.

Quote:
On the other hand it is Americans that controls the American media
Well 5 directly control all the American media out right or using corporations and one is German. Now and then a story makes it passed them but not to often
Media Reform Information Center

Quote:
Americans who votes for the president, the different candidates are Americans and the president himself is an American
Kinda we do Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you need 270 votes from the electoral college to win. The popular vote by the people is near meaningless. Oh the president is an American but is almost always from an elite family. You and I share more in common than me and the EL president.

Freedom Fries ARGGG who was it that started that hate the French idea. I hate them! My last name is French got in more than one fight over the French thing, Got some good deals on French wine out of it not a total loss. Never understood what the problem was so the French were making a deal same deals we had going.
Wonder if in WW2 that called hamburgers freedom sandwichs?

Quote:
Well, the rest of the western world is not “one of them” either and most of them don’t share your problems.
Oh they have chopped off more than just USA peoples heads off. But what did we do pre 9/11 to warrant an attack on 2 civilian targets?

But it was Bush who blundered with Iran. Iran gave us Sodom told us right where he was Then Bush gos and calls them the enemy. Dam him.

Quote:
Back in 2001 the US-embassy in Oslo got equipped with huge fences (on the sidewalk!), armed guards and they closed one of the streets going close by. It’s still like this.
I tried to enter once but was not allowed (don’t know why). In most of the other embassies you can walk directly in.
The then
'Fort America' infuriates Oslo residents - Aftenposten.no
The why page 2 shows it a bit better
9-11-2001
The now
About the Embassy - U.S. Embassy Oslo, Norway
New US embassy on ice - Aftenposten.no
US embassy moves to Huseby - Aftenposten.no
Seems we need to move from the old one
With the bombing on 9/11/01 all US-embassy had security upgrades a bit of over reaction on the policy makers part but the US was at war. The fences was put there because someone half a world away made up some number in feet and said "all US-embassys put a fence up at such and such a feet away" nothing against Norway or its people but all embassys got fortifications. No one wants this eye sore near them it seems.

Burn the Whitehouse? bahh wasnt even done. A wack job shot it up for sport a few years back another ran a plain in to it and the secret service just watched. bums have peed on it I was thinking of pinching my tent up there but dont like the neighborhood.

Brits do do a good job, good thing to you did it a lot. Cornwallis ran a way, buggered right out. What is it with you and the French any way? Still mad that a little French girl ran you out? I know there nasty when they get mad but you got to let it go man.
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