Compass. Do you use one ?
 

This recent thread about maps got my little brain working in a sort of lateral thinking way and I came to the startling conclusion that I don't own a compass. In fact I've never used one.
I use maps all the time but never a compass.
Am I missing out ?
OK I've never travelled that far but would it be useful ?
Do other folk on here use one ?
Just interested like.

The one I have is in the heel of my shoes with the animal tracks - but I've never used it.

I own one and carry it and know how to use it. The thing is though, when would you need to? Your up a track half way to Timbuktoo. The GPS knows your on the track, but blows a fuse. Your map has the track and you know the name of the last place you passed through and your paper map and odometer do the rest, you aren't lost. Things only get to the point where you need a compass when you are off the track, out of sight of any decent landmarks AND the GPS goes phut AND you are short of fuel (and so can't just run in a general direction or go back the way you came). If things are that bad you'll hope that a simple bit of map reading and "Go north 'till I hit the road/meet locals" plus using the sun/wristwatch trick will get you out. Really accurate map reading and compass work to me is only required when you are avoiding mine fields, locals will shoot at you, fuel is at a real premium etc.

I do find the ability to find a position the old fashioned ways interesting. I'm currently working on a sun compass and might try a bit of celestial navigation next time i'm anywhere with a clear sky, but to be honest it's for interest rather than any practical use.

Andy

I use the sun, no good at the equator tho...

I 've used a compass on many occasions, but never in conjunction with a motorbike.

A compass is a very useful/essential tool:-
1. At sea (especially when out of sight of the coast)
2. In fog
3. In the dark*
4. Off the beaten track, as described in an earlier post.
5. In dense forest.
6. In a white-out snow conditions
Basically in any circumstance where visibility of landmarks is limited or non-existant (Did I mention diving?)

While on a road, or within sight of a road, a compass should not be necessary if you are aware of your surroundings, general direction and orientation of the land etc etc - the overall things and patterns that generate a sense of direction.

*When talking with people it can be quite surprising how many have never been anywhere in the dark i.e. dark which is away from streetlights/civilisation or any other form of artificial light.

night and dim sky.... you get lost
 

never go with out one......... :)
you missing out a lot.

Question:
what are you doing with your map if you can't see the sun, or the sky is overcast and grey and you are lost ?
how do you find your direction than, no GPS around or empty batteries, lost orientation and so on..... well may your mechanic wrist watch help you out... but a good compass is the best investment you can make.
It's OK if you are in the woods, just look out for the moss on the bark to find north... but what are you doing in the plains or city's ?

I use several compasses at ones, one good SUUNTO K14-360/6400 compass the one with 360degree plus 6400mills scale, usable for civilian and army maps for way planing and set up of camp side, and a small cheap £1, 1-inch plastic compass permanent fitted on the arm tensional strap of my bike jacket for ruff orientation and quick judgement, prevent me riding for miles the wrong way down........ ;)

I had my 1st compass when I was a 6-year old, it was an big old WW2 Military wrist diving compass with 3-inch diameter scale, left over from some one.... I'm hooked and fascinated ever since to use this devices called compass in all sorts of manner, never got lost... well may in translation... ;) but other wise .... get you self one you like, you will not regret it.

A compass belongs to your travelling equipment like penknives and fire making devices right on the top of the list of things you are taking.
But may you are a type of guy who is calling the AA and believes that it was a hell of an adventure getting home in that yellow cab.... ;)

Ah, the memories... Clarks Commando shoes with the compass in the heel. Jumpers for goalposts and long hot summers. Waiting to get an FS1E moped, those were the days!

If you do use a compass when you're on the bike remember it's made of metal and affects the needle. Get well away from it. I've got one in my tankbag but I never use it. Yet another "just in case" item I should remove from my kit.

I use the Sun too - but my model works fine on the equator as long as you know what time it is!

Nature is not Disneyland
 

Remember how many naive stupid people have to be rescued by the RAF every year, while getting in to dangerous situation regarding lost orientations and miss judgement of the weather situations in the highlands, snowdonia and the coast every weekend ?
producing costs on the back of the Tax payer ?
just because they believe that they live in pampered Disneyland where there is sunshine all the time.........

Well all this only on that rock in the pond, called the UK..... (sign posts are ALL in English) what are you doing along the rest of the world with sign posts in hieroglyphs and strange languages, it's essential to get the shortest way to a fuel station if run out of fuel on that long dark lane, not riding around in circles getting cold an miserable.

I tell you a compass may looks a bit odd in our time of MP3 player, mobile phones with GPS build in, but this simple little device dose the trick to be comfortable knowing riding or being out side not ending in disaster and you always can help your self.

I always have a compass with me on my trips. I know how to use it but never needed it but I know that if I really get lost, I may need it. It only takes very little space so that is no problem.

Before I went to South Africa, I bought a compass that works on the Northern and the Southern hemisphere.

"Before I went to South Africa, I bought a compass that works on the Northern and the Southern hemisphere."

That'd be the left handed model then.

Not left handed but ..................
 

.............. The truth lies herein:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...hlight=compass

ah, the crux of the matter. If I want to figure out which road to take, I have to park the bike, remove the mapcase, walk a few feet away and figure out which way to turn. Which is why GPS makes more sense, with a compass stashed away for when/if the electronics fail.

Compasses are for backpackers!

Yah..... comes handy if the bike is on strike and the next village is mails away..... make sure your bike boots are well worn in...... and you know where you are and wat direction the GPS last had on it's display...........

Provided there is no cloud , you don't need a compass in the dark at night ,if you know where to look for the North Star .[ Northern Hemisphere only , no warranty intended , your mileage may vary - etc ]

If you are in the S hemisphere you can still use stellar navigation - use the Southern Cross and go off south instead of north

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for reminding me of being in southern Algeria with 2 local guides at night trying to get back to camp after a spot of night hunting - they were arguing about the southern cross and how wonderfull it was to navigate by but neither knew which way was back and there were so many tyre tracks from chasing a rabbit round and round.............happy memories

I'd used them while orienteering for the D of E award while at school (years ago but I can can still use one).

Bought one in a £1 shop before my trip last year. Yes ok, it's almost definitely made in some 3rd world country so the quality and accuracy isn't great but I didn't need it to be as I wasn't going off road or on a RTW with it. Having said that, it's probably more accurate than those bolt-onto-the-bars ones in the Motrax catalogue. I just needed it to give an idea of where north was if my GPS failed which is pretty much what happened. Probably saved me from an hour or so of riding round in circles.

For the space it takes up in your tankbag's map pocket and the price you can get them for (erm, a pound), you would be mad not to take one.

Walkabout - bugger me, never knew that. No wonder I kept getting lost. Didn't help though having to take my shoe off every time.

All of that parking/walking/removing isnt necessary......you can have your map in a case velcroed to the handlebar crosspiece/brace, easily visible, and a bike compass fixed to the bars too. Easy.

Compasses are for travellers.

These even more to this compassing lark than I realised.
Thanks for the replies people, appreciated.

I have one and knew how to use it once a plastic one with a scale on the side only need it a few times to find out what road to take at a "Y" and it dint have signpost. I have it out and "use" it when planing the next day ride looks good I think. Looks like I know what im doing. There nice to have when you need one but GPS will work better for most people.

People get lost all the time in Disneyland one of the things you need to know to work there even just to sweep the street is where every ride is and the ways out of the park. They also know there way around the underground of Disneyland.

A compass fixed to the bars won't always be accurate , you have to remove the compass from the influence of ferromagnetic objects to take readings so that it won't be affected by any residual magnetic fields .

and now I carry compass and gps
 

I use to travel with just maps (el-cheapo at the gas station), till I got somewhere where the map wasn't quite up to date and I wasn't sure where I was on the map. Then I got an excellent gps (garmin 76SCSx color map capable, 2 gig chip, etc). Worked great....except when you weren't moving much.... or when it decided to have a brain fart and locked up. For the most part, the gps is great, especially when you need to back track your way out.
HOWEVER, heard of a couple who got caught on a mountain top in a white out. Couldn't dare move around enought for the gps to lock on. No compass. Had to wait it out as there was only one safe direction down off the mountain and they had no clue where it was.
Always have a compass (an orienteering one at that). I have a Suunto MC-2. Make sure you know what the declination is for where you are. In my present area it is about 20 degrees east of true north. The gps (most of the time) will tell you where you are. A map and compass depends on you knowing where you are when you start and then you can plan where you are going (taking a bearing, working out travel times etc).
For professionals who depend on knowing where they are, carrying both and knowing how to use both is standard practice (when it counts, a back up plan is a good plan). Besides, learning orienteering and mapping out where you are going is fun.

The first time you get lost, it comes as a great big suprise. If you survive that, learning to get un-lost takes on whole new importance in your life. Sure did for me

Peace,
Narly

Mmmn ,I thought the new Garmins 60CSx and 76 CSx had compasses built in that weren't dependant on you actually moving .
So the internal compases don't work very well[ if at all ] , is that what you're saying ?

A vehicle mounted compass needs to be swung. You take a bearing from a known objects position and find the error. You then correct for this error. The correct way is to fix magnets (aircraft version) or iron masses (old maritime solution) so the needle points the right way. Look at a ships binnacle in your local maritime museum, those 8 inch iron shot either side of the compass aren't there to hang your jacket on, they're the rough adjustment to allow for a hundred tons of steam engine a few feet away. The fine adjustment is under the dial and would usually be done at each port, hence lots of harbours have a location known as Compass point.

So called vehicle compasses are set up for an expected magnetic field (most 4x4's have 200-odd KG of diesel engine in the front) so they are better than the walkers compass in the tank bag. However, they don't entirely account for your vehicles magnetic field and i'd guess are worse on a bike where the small engine is below/behind (don't know, I never compared them). Hence, in the emergency where you know the paved road is somewhere North and the next town is west down that road, you will travel in roughly a straight line (actually a really huge arc as oposed to the 50 mile circle a compass pointing at the engine can produce). However, if the target is a 55 gallon drum of petrol in the middle of Australia, I'd want to get 10m away from the bike and do things properly every half hour or so.

This is where the sun compass comes in, if you know local solar time and have the proper scale on the dial for your latitude, you can keep moving just by keeping the shadow on the right time.

Walkers get stuck in Scotland because they need accuracy to account for their lack of range. A bike with 2 gallons of petrol will hit a road and get out so long as the rider uses his map. A walker with nothing but a Mars bar and a can of fizzy pop in their pack can't do a 50 mile detour without freezing to death, and will become more disoriented by the time it takes them to go round an obstruction. Of course a biker with a siezed engine is just a badly dressed hiker........

Andy

They do, but you have to switch them on... :rolleyes2:
Stephan

You can use the compass (and a map) to calculate waypoints of interesting places that’s not on the GPS-map.
The compass can also be used together with a GPS to figure out exactly where you are on the paper map.

Strewth !
I'm buggered then !

I do because sometimes (dare I say this) I actually get away from motorised transport and use my feet, so a compass and map and knowing how to use both are well worth it (I don't have a ciggie lighter socket built into my body to plug a GPS into).

Also, and call me old-fashioned, I think it's always a good idea to have a back up to anything that uses batteries, or microprocessors, or relies on a programmer.

I've got one of those little thermometer key rings too.

I use one all the time in the mountains and forest when on foot. Carried a spare across a couple of continents when motorcycling and didnt it once. So now for this part of the trip, it rests at home in the backpack, Im sure that at some point Ill need it and curse myself...

Nice description there Andy. With Alloy bars, plastic fuel tanks etc the local magnetic attraction might be minimal on some bikes. In basic fiddling and experimentation I have found that the compass needle does not have to be very far from local metal to correctly indicate magnetic north.
Perhaps the bike influence on a compass needle is greater when the engine is running (with increased local magnetic field generation)?

As mentioned in another post, at least a compass can give you a rough indication of orientation of a map, no matter what the weather conditions are, day or night - however, I have still managed to get it wrong when tired/cold/basically knackered. :rolleyes2:


Dodger/henry,
I've tried out navigating by both the Pole star and the Southern Cross - they are both fine if you want to go North or South, but not so useful if you are aiming to go, say, SSE or NNW etc etc.

The bar is a really useful place to be! :clap:

You're probably not the only one. The compass is turned on and off by pressing the button marked 'Page'. :eek3:
Stephan

Absolutely right.....they need as you say, to be swung, or you can search around the h/bars for a neutral spot.....

I found this on my @ on top of the front brake reservoir....

Incidentally, I find that the compass is at its most useful in towns.......elsewhere, an approximate heading is sufficient, even if my compass is not spot on....

trust not in what others tell you - advertising lies
 

The 76CSx has all the toys and uses 5 sat instead of three to pin your location. And yes, I am saying the internal magnetic compass is less accurate than my handheld. Before anyone asks, yes, I do step away from metal to ensure the gps magnetic compass is free to find it's mark.
Don't get me wrong, I use and depend a great deal on this gps. Especially since I have aftermarket maps and contour maps loaded in it. However, I am aware of it's limitations and don't rely on it blindly. The compass is still a useful tool and it works when the gps doesn't (in steep-sided canyons).
A decent compass is still cheap insurance.

I don't know about the rest of our fellow travellers, but I have a great respect for "low teck" that has been proven and used for ages. I work in a "high tech" environment and understand the huge support base that necessary to sustain it.
If you want to see spectacular "low tech", take a look at the use of "ropes" and "knots". The knots we use in climbing have been around for a very long time and are still worth knowing.
Most of my travel gear (clothing) is synthetic. However there is still room for a fine wool sweater in my kit. My boots are heavy leather backpackers that are anything but high tech. They work fine and can be re-soled anywhere in the world.
I don't need things to be the latest and greatest, although that is nice. I do need them to work, all the time and everytime.
Boy that "soapbox" was fun.

Peace,
Narly

For latest read "most under developed" :frown:

I also work in hightech, but to be honest I'll take well known and well made every time.

Andy

Back to the question.
My electronic car compass is dead ass accurate.
Can someone who has one say the 76Csx electronic compass is inaccurate?
bill

I don't own a GPS. But then again, my bike travels don't put me out in terrain where I think a GPS might prove useful, but even with that being said, I doubt I will ever use one. But maybe...

I have used a lensatic compass in conjunction with UTM maps extensively when I was in the military (and some for civilian applications) where I was on the ground on foot and/or in a military vehicle. There were no GPS devices back then. My opinion is that learning to land navigate in the classical sense like this keeps one from getting lost in general, and also helps one learn how to pinpoint one's location via intersection/resection techniques, etc.

My son, who is in the US Army now, says all of his training has been in the classical land navigation tehcniques, as were mine. He say his vehicles are equipped with GPS, but that most opine that a GPS "makes one stupid" unless one has had the classical training.

What about navigating by the sun using a wrist watch.

You need to be set to the local time, so that midday on your watch is when the sun is highest in the sky. At midday only, exactly in the northern hemisphere the sun will be due south, and in the southern hemisphere it will be due north.

In the northern hemisphere, at any time, hold the watch level and aim the hour hand in the direction of the sun, bisect the angle between the hour hand and twelve to find a rough south. In the southern hemisphere this technique will give you a rough north. Not so good at the equator, at night or on an overcast day but still worth knowing.

Although I guess you guys use the digital clock on your GPS to tell the time :rolleyes2:

The dial on your watch is maybe an inch across? You can align it within 3 degrees of the sun? It's acurate to maybe 30 seconds, set to within an hour of local sun time (as against GMT +/- ??) and your estimate of "halfway" is good to another 3 degrees?

Add up all the possibilities and you might be out by 20 degrees. If you are in trouble and there is a road across your path roughly North and 10 miles away that's fine, you'll hit the road where you expect. If you are aiming for a well in a desert valley 50 miles out you'll be in trouble unless you have a lot of water and petrol to spare looking for a three foot hole in the ground (better to aim off and then know which direction to search in).

Good emergency technique though and better that moss on stones and so forth.

To make the sundial methods work you need one of these:

The sun compass (threewheelbonnienonbike)

Fun to play with, but doesn't compare to a working GPS and really too big with all the watches, calculators, compass etc. to be a useful backup. It makes you appreciate just how good the early desert navigators were.

Andy

Good point Andy, like you say its good in an emergency. But for some reason Id have a compass and map anyday over a GPS. Ive been to comet twice now on a GPS hunt and walked out both times thinking "sod it, Im gonna use a map".

That being said I have been lost a few times as well :whistling:

But still I dont think Il use GPS anytime soon.

Sounds like you need something designed for bike/walking use rather than sales reps and people who couldn't find their hotel if they jumped in a black cab and gave the driver the Savoys letter head.

I'd suggest a decent camping shop to take a look, then buy in Argos if they can't match the price. Something like a Garmin C60 type that doesn't do much more than point at your next way point is easy to get along with. Remember these things aren't infallible, if you know a better route use it, the GPS will always be technically correct but it doesn't have local knowledge which frustrates a lot of people new to GPS. I hate to suggest it but Touratech do some good versions they just know how to charge for it.

Andy

compass?
 

Compass?
I was very surprised to read this thread, I had just assumed that “everyone” had some form of magnetic needle pocket compass for navigation, especially useful in towns , and on foot, and even on the bike. On the spur of the moment I bought a “toy” digital compass for cars last autumn before a trip to India, and mounted it permanently in the right handguard. Not only did it actually survive the different weather and roads, and show the right direction, it was very useful in towns and cities, just glance at it rather than fiddling about with my pocket compass. Surprisingly it wasn’t stolen until Gokarna in Karnataka, even though it was visible when the bike wasn’t covered.
I have never owned GPS, so I have little personal experience, but have seen others use it to find addresses straight off that I would have used a long time to circle in. I have also seen it lead to near disaster in mountain country where map reading and interpretation are crucial. Here the GPS is considered a supplement, but this is a more serious environment, maybe you could compare with desert off-piste. Most times the GPS has worked perfectly, but I feel it must be very vulnerable to moisture and impact in a fall, besides being a ‘steal-me’ when you are stopped. My main GPS geek tells me all this is luddite superstition, but he also sees the value of map and compass, not least for planning, and as a backup.
I have tried a few handlebar mounted compasses with no success, even maritime versions, so I suppose the GPS is coming to a motorbike near me, but I reckon to keep a pocket compass handy. It worries me that they seem to be made of "kleptonium", very vulnerable to thieves, I would be interested to hear peoples experiences with the 'secure' mounts.
Peter,in Oslo

Get the right unit and you can drop it in rivers, ride through snow storms, just about anything except use it to hammer in tent pegs. I've had one unit fail in nine years. Seems modern electronics don't like 1950's big single vibrations after they've had four years of year round and off road use. I wasn't that upset it'd had a tough life and done it's job.

There is no such thing as a secure mount. Mine comes out of the mount and goes in my grab bag or on a lanyard round my neck at any point where I'd take the keys out of the ignition. That to me is another reason to have a mobile phone sized unit rather than something that looks like a home entertainment system.

I'm using a Garmin GPS60CS in a Touratech/RAM mount BTW.

Andy

i would still be lost in some Bulgarian / Romanian / Turkish etc forest without a compass. It is my no1 essential tool for travelling. sat nav is for people with no real sense of adventure, getting lost often leads you to the most interesting places. Andy B

It has an off switch or you just ignore it if you spot a nicer looking road.

I could take offence at being told I have no sense of adventure because I choose to sometimes use a different tool to you. If you feel you need to obey all instructions given to you by a rather dumb piece of electronic hardware to the point where you couldn't decide to follow a different route then you are right not to get a GPS, you could end up riding down the steps into the underground or through a 6 foot deep summer ford in winter!

Andy

My comments were very much tongue in cheek, there have been moments when i would have sold a kidney for electronic directions. my preference is for old fashion maps and a compass but i respect others have different preferences and should use them, before the government bans personel choice. Andy B

+1 there Andysr6

I take pride in being able to read and orientate a map and use a magnetic compass to find out which way I want to go. Using topographic overlays and distance measuring tools. Some people think its a redundant practice these days, especially with electronic navigation spreading so fast. Its hard to buy a mobile phone these days without it telling you where to go!

But 'old skool' is where Im at, even with Diving Id sooner have an analouge depth guage and watch to calculate decompression stops then a dive computer.

Got me round the Ukraine and Russia when the TomTom went dark . . .
Be prepared . . . (ex boy Scout)