Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB

The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Like Tree11Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 4 Nov 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Andrews
Posts: 667
Of course I am not in principle against legal riders or drivers on legal bikes, quads, 4by4s being driven on legal highways, but just because a thing is legal does not make it always right and when the majority of people realise this the law is changed. Many examples of this spring to mind, child labour, votes for women, persecution of ethnic minorities to give just a few. The tirade against ¨geriatric pensioners¨ of which I am one and in time most members of HU will be also become, wishing for their death in order for the few to enjoy their ¨legal¨ persuits does not endear them to the general population so when the majority etc. etc.
I´m afraid I must express a degree of ignorance if not indiference to the problems being experienced by bikers in the low countries, however, your comments about the banning of the use by mechanised vehicles in Scotland for leisure purposes in particular on the old unpaved drove and military roads was in the main because of the damage and subsequent erosion of the tracks and adjacent sections of land caused by such vehicles. I have driven 4 by 4 vehicles on these roads many times in what was my line of work and have seen at first hand the result of allowing untrained and and in many cases uninhibited drivers and riders to use these roads regardless of the cost to the land. Now, many, usually absentee landlords, charge big money for adventure thrill seekers to blast around their land in or on many types of vehicles so the degredation of land goes on but it is limited. These roads were constructed not for mechanised vehicles but for animal droving, carts and people marching or walking and as such are quite fragile. Here in Chile roads such as the C.Austral are constructed to take everything on foot, hoof, or wheel and are more robust however, even they get damaged by overenthusiastic, usually drivers, after rains with the resultant carving up of the surface, witness the state of some sections of Ruta 40 in Argentina.

In conclusion, I feel that tirade is starting to take over from debate which is usually the mark of desperation on the part of those tirading, if there is such a word, so how about letting a bit of peace and good will to all creep in, including those geriatric pensioners after all, it is nearly xmas.

p.s. Keep on paying the taxes, I love my pension.

Ride safe and quietly.
__________________
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 4 Nov 2011
chris's Avatar
Probably out riding
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: God's Own County
Posts: 2,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
Of course I am not in principle against legal riders or drivers on legal bikes, quads, 4by4s being driven on legal highways, but just because a thing is legal does not make it always right and when the majority of people realise this the law is changed. Many examples of this spring to mind, child labour, votes for women, persecution of ethnic minorities to give just a few. The tirade against ¨geriatric pensioners¨ of which I am one and in time most members of HU will be also become, wishing for their death in order for the few to enjoy their ¨legal¨ persuits does not endear them to the general population so when the majority etc. etc.
I´m afraid I must express a degree of ignorance if not indiference to the problems being experienced by bikers in the low countries, however, your comments about the banning of the use by mechanised vehicles in Scotland for leisure purposes in particular on the old unpaved drove and military roads was in the main because of the damage and subsequent erosion of the tracks and adjacent sections of land caused by such vehicles. I have driven 4 by 4 vehicles on these roads many times in what was my line of work and have seen at first hand the result of allowing untrained and and in many cases uninhibited drivers and riders to use these roads regardless of the cost to the land. Now, many, usually absentee landlords, charge big money for adventure thrill seekers to blast around their land in or on many types of vehicles so the degredation of land goes on but it is limited. These roads were constructed not for mechanised vehicles but for animal droving, carts and people marching or walking and as such are quite fragile. Here in Chile roads such as the C.Austral are constructed to take everything on foot, hoof, or wheel and are more robust however, even they get damaged by overenthusiastic, usually drivers, after rains with the resultant carving up of the surface, witness the state of some sections of Ruta 40 in Argentina.

In conclusion, I feel that tirade is starting to take over from debate which is usually the mark of desperation on the part of those tirading, if there is such a word, so how about letting a bit of peace and good will to all creep in, including those geriatric pensioners after all, it is nearly xmas.

p.s. Keep on paying the taxes, I love my pension.

Ride safe and quietly.
Comments about geriatrics doing each other over, were meant in jest. I think I need to use emoticons more.

A side argument, possibly out of “desperation”, is indeed to point out that much of the damage on Green Lanes is caused by 4x4s (in particular) and tractors (driven by the farmers/tenant farmers who rent the land). Bikes weighing very little ridden by competent riders will cause little damage (certainly no more than a couple of walkers or a horse). A rider who doesn’t know how to ride off-pavement will soon be falling off regularly and give up/retire for retraining.

However a novice in a several ton 4x4 (possibly a townie who wants to try out his Chelsea Tractor in the ruff stuff?) will just press the accelerator pedal and carve everything up.

The legal bikers (including me) get tarred with the same brush as the 4x4 types (having driven a Landcruiser in southern Africa for 5000 miles in 5 weeks, I can't understand why you want to drive something so uncomfortable, but that’s another topic entirely ), the stunt jockeys who should be on the race track not a public road or kids who have stolen a dirt-bike and are riding it wherever they want.

Enjoy your pension. At least you’ve got one! When I’m your age there won’t be any pensions.

Enjoy your time in South America, you lucky lucky bar-steward...

Peace!

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 4 Nov 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
Of course I am not in principle against legal riders or drivers on legal bikes, quads, 4by4s being driven on legal highways, but just because a thing is legal does not make it always right and when the majority of people realise this the law is changed. Many examples of this spring to mind, child labour, votes for women, persecution of ethnic minorities to give just a few. The tirade against ¨geriatric pensioners¨ of which I am one and in time most members of HU will be also become, wishing for their death in order for the few to enjoy their ¨legal¨ persuits does not endear them to the general population so when the majority etc. etc.
I´m afraid I must express a degree of ignorance if not indiference to the problems being experienced by bikers in the low countries, however, your comments about the banning of the use by mechanised vehicles in Scotland for leisure purposes in particular on the old unpaved drove and military roads was in the main because of the damage and subsequent erosion of the tracks and adjacent sections of land caused by such vehicles. I have driven 4 by 4 vehicles on these roads many times in what was my line of work and have seen at first hand the result of allowing untrained and and in many cases uninhibited drivers and riders to use these roads regardless of the cost to the land. Now, many, usually absentee landlords, charge big money for adventure thrill seekers to blast around their land in or on many types of vehicles so the degredation of land goes on but it is limited. These roads were constructed not for mechanised vehicles but for animal droving, carts and people marching or walking and as such are quite fragile. Here in Chile roads such as the C.Austral are constructed to take everything on foot, hoof, or wheel and are more robust however, even they get damaged by overenthusiastic, usually drivers, after rains with the resultant carving up of the surface, witness the state of some sections of Ruta 40 in Argentina.

In conclusion, I feel that tirade is starting to take over from debate which is usually the mark of desperation on the part of those tirading, if there is such a word, so how about letting a bit of peace and good will to all creep in, including those geriatric pensioners after all, it is nearly xmas.

p.s. Keep on paying the taxes, I love my pension.

Ride safe and quietly.

Enjoy the peace while you can down in South America

I will be arriving very soon
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 5 Nov 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Andrews
Posts: 667
If you drink , give me an e-mail when you get here. Ride safe
__________________
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 5 Nov 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
Of course I am not in principle against legal riders or drivers on legal bikes, quads, 4by4s being driven on legal highways, but just because a thing is legal does not make it always right and when the majority of people realise this the law is changed. Many examples of this spring to mind, child labour, votes for women, persecution of ethnic minorities to give just a few. The tirade against ¨geriatric pensioners¨ of which I am one and in time most members of HU will be also become, wishing for their death in order for the few to enjoy their ¨legal¨ persuits does not endear them to the general population so when the majority etc. etc.
I´m afraid I must express a degree of ignorance if not indiference to the problems being experienced by bikers in the low countries, however, your comments about the banning of the use by mechanised vehicles in Scotland for leisure purposes in particular on the old unpaved drove and military roads was in the main because of the damage and subsequent erosion of the tracks and adjacent sections of land caused by such vehicles. I have driven 4 by 4 vehicles on these roads many times in what was my line of work and have seen at first hand the result of allowing untrained and and in many cases uninhibited drivers and riders to use these roads regardless of the cost to the land. Now, many, usually absentee landlords, charge big money for adventure thrill seekers to blast around their land in or on many types of vehicles so the degredation of land goes on but it is limited. These roads were constructed not for mechanised vehicles but for animal droving, carts and people marching or walking and as such are quite fragile. Here in Chile roads such as the C.Austral are constructed to take everything on foot, hoof, or wheel and are more robust however, even they get damaged by overenthusiastic, usually drivers, after rains with the resultant carving up of the surface, witness the state of some sections of Ruta 40 in Argentina.

In conclusion, I feel that tirade is starting to take over from debate which is usually the mark of desperation on the part of those tirading, if there is such a word, so how about letting a bit of peace and good will to all creep in, including those geriatric pensioners after all, it is nearly xmas.

p.s. Keep on paying the taxes, I love my pension.

Ride safe and quietly.
Perhaps the committed trail riders will have to throw themselves under the hooves of some horses on the bridleways of England before the issue is resolved
Though I fear that throwing oneself at the feet of the Ramblers would have little effect.

It is a poor comparison however, to equate trail riding with obvious historical wrongs which, as you say, were acceptable practices in the UK at one time and still continue somewhere in the world today. The UK was at the forefront of abolishing slavery, so are we to take a lead in banning riding on anything other than tarmac (which, in fact, is more accurately labelled as bitmac or asphalt) across the globe? It may be quite possible to establish the necessity on environmental grounds and we should be able to get a few highly paid soccer players and minor TV celebrities to act as UN ambassadors for the cause of "save our gravel tracks".

Yes, to my understanding TRF members do ride safely and quietly, having a voluntary speed limit, offroad, of 20 MPH. According to the documentary, it is unfortunate that this is done, on occasions, without a horn that works and with number plates that are too small. They are sometimes caught doing this illegal activity by a policeman who is driving the same route using a 4x4.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 5 Nov 2011
chris's Avatar
Probably out riding
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: God's Own County
Posts: 2,256
Here's more on legal motorcyclists and why the terms offroad bike/offroader are not appropriate. Also why every biker in the UK who leaves the tarmac on their dual sport bike should join the TRF.

The following is copied direct from ABR at TONIGHT BBC4 21:00HRS!! Banning Bikes from the National Park.

I hope their member "Gavinskii" doesn't mind me copying his post here. It will hopefully help to clarify one or two issues.

Quote

I was just catching up on some emails and have copied below a really good letter from the Devon TRF (IMHO probably the strongest TRF group in the Country)who are fighting a TRO on a local lane.

I hope that for those that are members they will get a flavour of why certain of us on ABR are so passionate about trying to do things the right way & how hopefully some of you new to trail riding can see the merits of joining ( I believe if you join now you can benefit from an extra couple of months free membership....?)

Dear Councillor ........
By now you will probably be aware of Bouchland Lane and have begun to wonder what on earth all the fuss is about. Why are these troublesome people filling our inboxes?
Well, here is an attempt to briefly address that question.
The Trail Riders Fellowship was created in the 1970's, when it became apparent that a lot of historic routes were simply disappearing and no one seemed to care or be prepared to do anything about it.
Some were lost to lack of use and some were deliberately erased by landowners, a process that continues to this day.
Since its beginnings, the TRF has grown into a national organisation, numbering several thousand members, with a National Executive of directors and considerable funds, including a fighting fund, used to challenge authorities when the rights of its members, and the wider public are removed illegally, or without due process.
TRF members ride to a strict code of conduct. Any motorcycle ridden on a road, be it metalled or unmetalled (unsurfaced) has to be taxed, insured, MOTd and the rider have the appropriate license. Frequently members will ride for 8 hours, covering distances of 80-100 miles. Clearly, it is not about speed.
Use of the term 'off road' is particularly misleading when referring to TRF members machines being used on unsurfaced roads. The TRF does not support or condone the use of 'off road' machines on public roads.
Trail riding is not a race, it is a way of exploring our countryside on a motorcycle. It is about map reading, using local services, petrol stations, hotels, bed and breakfast facilities, shops and above all planning our route so we can be sure that where we ride is legal.
Route planning can be very difficult, when no signs or misleading signs are placed at the start of unsurfaced roads by authorities and landowners, Ordnance Survey maps stop short of being definitive and access to the official List of Streets is restricted. The Devon TRF group have spent a lot of time and money establishing the extent of our legal network of unsurfaced roads and this information is available to all members.
The perception among many is that if a carriageway is unsurfaced, it is something other than a road. This is not the case.
Motorcyclists have the legal right to use only 2-3% of unsurfaced rights of way in this country. Compare this to 100% access for walkers and well over 50% for cyclists and equestrian users.
Due to the complex nature of highway law and the case law surrounding it, the TRF and some of its officers, have become extremely knowledgeable in relation to its members rights and highly proficient in holding authorities to account for unlawful actions in removing vehicular rights.
You may be surprised to find out the type of people who are attracted to the TRF.
They tend to be mature professional types, who are able to undertake research and build up an understanding of the arcane world of rights of way.
Amongst our Devon members, we have Doctors, Solicitors, Local Gov. Officers, Civil Servants, Policemen, Parish Councillors, Heli crew from the Air Ambulance and Business owners. Many retired or semi retired, with time on their hands.
Probably not your 'stereotype' dirty biker and generally very able and intelligent people, who simply love to be out on their bike exploring the nooks and crannies that our unsurfaced road network offers.
So what turned these level headed Professional types into snarling Rottweiler‟s? Simply 'the system' treating us as though we are a plague on society and for the resource we share with all other users, to be culled at every opportunity.
Incorrect signage creating the impression that we are on a footway or bridleway. Establishing vehicular rights of routes made progressively harder for us and easier for the authorities to deny. Frontages to unsurfaced unclassified county roads taking possession of the route and no one in authority prepared to do anything about it. And when all else fails, sneak in some legislation after breaking every promise made during 'consultation'
No serious group of net contributors to society should be treated like this.
Over time our concern turns to indignation, then outrage, with the possibility of radicalisation in the future. We are concerned that a lack of basic maintenance is used as a justification for a permanent closure. We are concerned that the impression is created that this is somehow good for the „local‟ people. We know from experience that it is not. We have often heard story‟s of a route being physically closed off but locals having permission to cross the land and eventually that permission removed by a change of ownership or a 'dog worrying incident ' justifying the final loss of permission.
Please do not forget that we, the 340 Devon TRF members, are locals too. We have several Members in North Devon and even some in the Parish of Burrington.
We are outraged that property owners, whose land fronts a public route, are led to believe that they can purchase a permanent closure order, effectively giving them a private drive, maintained at public expense, with no public right of way, for the bargain price of £800. We are outraged that deliberately blocking a public route is rewarded by even a discussion about permanent closure. And because the system has evolved to the point where there is now a presumption against trail riders at all levels, we have become most vociferous and active in opposing any and all attempts to close or restrict public routes.
Should you decide to make the order, you should know that the rationale for making it will be closely scrutinised. Our national legal advisers and Executive are fully informed of the current situation.
I would therefore urge you to consider your responsibilities carefully and the impact, in these fiscally challenging times, of the process of Judicial Review and the cost to any authority held to be acting outside of the law and failing in its legal duties.
Noel Squibb
Chairman.


Unquote

Last edited by chris; 5 Nov 2011 at 21:33.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HU Member onn BBC news henryuk The HUBB PUB 0 28 Oct 2011 08:19

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:29.