Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB
The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Photo by Daniel Rintz, Himba children, Namibia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

Photo by Daniel Rintz,
Himba children, Namibia



Like Tree5Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15 Jul 2013
Registered Users
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 0
Why a chain?

I am between bikes right now, and considering what I want for these Horizon types of rides from the USA into Mexico, SA, and who knows where. I have read many answers to the question of which bike, but my question is WHY a bike with a chain drive? I have always been a shaft-guy, because of my type of highway touring/cruising in the US, they have always been much less maintenance and general dinking around with adjustments. So, my question is why are so many recommendations for bikes with chain drive? Are the out-of-USA roads so bad? The shafts not strong enough?....???
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16 Jul 2013
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
SHAFTS:

1- Overall bike weight - Well because light bikes are inherently superior on bad roads. There is no such thing as a light shaft drive bike.

2- Unsprung weight - Having been on a ride last year when one of the guys had an old airhead, which has a relatively light shaft drive unit compared to modern shaft drives, his back wheel was unable to follow the terrain properly on rough roads, even with cutting edge suspension (the same suspension I had on a chain drive bike), because of the enormous unsprung weight of the shaft drive. - i.e poorer suspension performance and more limited suspension travel over crummy roads and off road.

3- Very difficult to repair / replace .... While they are less maintenance, the reality is if you follow a lot of reports on here, as I do, you often see guys stranded in Kazakhstan, or Mongolia or Africa, or wherever for weeks with a broken shaft or final drive, and there is no way to fix it short of shipping out a new part. A chain is a simple, light, common replaceable part that you find in bike shops the world over. They are not a lot of maintenance at all, they just need to be changed every 10,000 miles or so depending on how and where you ride.

4- They are not bulletproof ... You may end up like this guy:



5- They are less efficient at transmitting power from the engine to the back wheel

6- They are more expensive to design and produce

7- They do not allow you to change drive ratios as your needs, load, terrain, road conditions etc changes. In contrast, there is a huge variety of possible final drive ratios on chain drive bikes by changing the front and rear sprocket sizes. Changing ratios is quick, easy and cheap on chain drive bikes - that's very useful when part of your trip is on western motorways and other parts are on dirt tracks in steamy Bolivian jungles.

At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with the concept of shaft drives. If they suit your application then they suit your application. If you are someone who likes shaft drives, by all means use shaft drives.

But from a rational perspective, for an adventuring application, there are more reasons not to choose them than there are to choose them.

Last edited by colebatch; 21 Jul 2013 at 08:00.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
A chain is 2 minutes a day, a shaft is tens of minutes every few thousand miles and hours maybe three times in the bikes life.

Modern chains never snap they wear, some shaft designs are bullet proof others not.

You can buy industrial chain anywhere to get you going, splined shafts come from Germany, I don't think Moto Guzzi ever sold one, so goodness knows how long it'd take to find the right bit in their stores.

There is nothing in it. Pick your bike based on overall performance not some niggling technical detail. Some chains (eg BMW F650 single) were as underspecified as some shafts. Others go on for ever (MZ enclosed chain 100000 miles and it's industrial with a clip not rivetted O-ring).

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,131
Chain Drive:
Very efficient
Simple
Cheap
Very easy to change ratios

Shaft Drive
Less daily maintenance
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTB View Post
I have always been a shaft-guy, because of my type of highway touring/cruising in the US, they have always been much less maintenance and general dinking around with adjustments.
In that case, there is a wide-ranging discussion in this thread:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ft-drive-32357
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 1,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
enclosed chain
In my opinion this would be the best solution for an adventure bike. Too bad the manufacturers apparently don´t see it that way.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 2,102
People have been going on about the shortcomings of exposed chains ever since I started biking back when dinosaurs roamed the land. In the letters pages of ancient mags like Motorcycle Sport every month there would usually be someone bleating about how their BSA or something wore out a chain in 500 miles and why can't manufacturers enclose them. 50 yrs on nothing has changed except chains have become a bit more hi-tech.

Instead of enclosure all sorts of aftermarket lash ups like chain oilers have appeared and appear to be commercially successful. The occasional attempts to produce an aftermarket chaincase have all sunk without trace though (Peter Furlong anyone?). I can understand why; with the possible exception of MZ's efforts they all look as ugly as sin. A pity in some respects as they do work - my 1976 Suzuki has one and it's still running on the hardly worn original chain. OK, it's only a 125 but the chain is hardly any bigger than those fitted to bicycles and back it in the winter it survived 2000 miles of salt laden autobahn without needing oiling or adjusting.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SW France
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
Modern chains never snap they wear, some shaft designs are bullet proof others not.
I've had the chain snap 3 times on my KTM 690 in 15000 miles and I've had one replacement shaft on my R100GS in 50000 miles.

If I was setting off on a long trip on the airhead I would fit a new or refurbished shaft and thouroughly check the gearbox and final drive as part of the preparation. I would then be confident of at least 25000 miles trouble and maintenance free (and this is one of the less robust shaft drives). For me in normal use the unsprung weight and limited travel is not an issue. At travelling speeds (as opposed to racing speeds) the rear suspension performs well off road.

Chain drive does have a number of benefits and I would favour it for day to day off road riding as long as you carry all the stuff to get you home in the event of a failure.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 217
enclosed chains

hi I had a Yamaha tr1 fully enclosed chain case on my Yamaha sr500 ( I tried a peter furlong case too complicated lots of parts was a hassle in the front garden let alone at the road side) ,the tr1 case took a lot of hours to make it fit but what a difference ,I was using standard heavy duty chains ( before x-ring chains) which I would get about 12,000 miles with lots of oiling and adjusting ,I then put a new standard heavy duty chain in when I put the chain case on and got 36,000 miles with hardly any adjusting and just take the chain off clean and boil in chain oil maybe twice a year (I was doing around 12,000 miles a year then) the rear wheel would stay cleaner as well ,it always gets me how in the bike world we seem to treat the effects and not the cause, example in the car world cv joints ,open to the elements so clean and regrease or cover up with a boot to stop the grease being washed out and contaminated with dirt,treat cause and effect ,bike world cover up chain to keep it cleaner with less maintenance or keep adding new (special expensive )oil to replace the oil washed off, yes that sounds about right,treat effect not cause , it used to be the same with helmets linings getting dirty ,take out and wash ,so cant take out linings so buy special expensive cleaners to clean the linings again treating the effects and not the cause problem although this seems to be getting better? as some helmets the lining is removable , there I have had my rant steve
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 1,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon View Post
Chain drive does have a number of benefits and I would favour it for day to day off road riding as long as you carry all the stuff to get you home in the event of a failure.
And there you have one more advantage of a chain drive, as opposed to a shaft drive: if you want, it´s very easy to carry a spare chain & sprockets (=all secondary drive parts) with you. That should make you pretty self-sufficient, no matter where you go, and you don´t need to be much of a mechanic to change them all in the bushes. And even if you don´t want to carry them all, finding replacement chains is also possible almost anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 18 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hessen, Germany
Posts: 187
It comes down to how easy you can fix a problem if anything happens. Chains are easier to deal with.

I've had two R12GS's (normal and a GSA), the first one blew the output seal in the south of Spain.. and the other one blew the final drive bearing 2 weeks after I got (2nd hand). I dumped the R12GSA with 90k, as I got more and more concerned that the final drive would pack in....


Casper
__________________
www.exilepixel.com
www.c-note.dk
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19 Jul 2013
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,654
Shafts suck.... Beemer shafts REALLY suck.

And it's not just the shaft that is a headache, it's all the extra gubbins that goes with them..

Try changing your final drive bearing in a workshop in Mongolia or finding someone who can swap out your RWD oil seal in Mexico when it inevitably starts leaking..

They're great for long distance, non-maintenance riding but out in the wilds, simple is ALWAYS better.

Chain and sprockets are simple, easy, and everyone understands them...
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19 Jul 2013
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon View Post
I've had the chain snap 3 times on my KTM 690 in 15000 miles and I've had one replacement shaft on my R100GS in 50000 miles.
Something is wrong with your KTM. Check the runout of both sprockets/output shaft/rear axle. Also check chain alignment throughout the range of rear suspension travel.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
The only snapped chain I have ever seen in person was on a KTM. The dealer had changed it about 500 miles before, so maybe they are a PITA to fit correctly?

F650 chains fail very quickly once they start to go. It's because BMW or Aprillia took a chain meant for a 250 twin and used it on a 650 single.

The difference with the MZ enclosed chain and a lot of the others is that it was designed on, not bodged together afterwards. If you don't get the tubes in the engine case grooves it fails. Assemble correctly once, leave it alone and it'll work for years. I'm surprised no one has designed a bike specific add on though. Modern adhesives should make it possible at add something like the MZ grooves to the back of any case.

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19 Jul 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post

F650 chains fail very quickly once they start to go. It's because BMW or Aprillia took a chain meant for a 250 twin and used it on a 650 single.

Andy
That's interesting as one of the guys I met in southern Germany on this year's Elephant rally was stranded with a snapped chain on his F650. One of the side plates had snapped, the chain had opened up, jumped the front sprocket and taken out a chunk of engine casing. We wondered whether battery acid vapour was responsible as there didn't seem to be any significant wear on the rest of the chain or the sprockets but the failed side plate had a kind of fault line break in it.

The chain looked to be the same size as those on my XR600 and CCM600 so I wouldn't have thought it underspecced. It certainly hadn't been ridden hard.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alternative to Chain Lube in the developing world theoverman83 Travellers' questions that don't fit anywhere else 20 11 Jun 2013 14:33
Chain Tensioner For KLE 500 rashidanis Kawasaki Tech 1 12 Nov 2012 10:57
Chain set needed in Ulan-Baatar nachov Travellers' questions that don't fit anywhere else 4 10 Sep 2012 05:35
Stuck in Tashkent, need chain tools jparke Northern and Central Asia 16 21 Aug 2012 17:22
Clutch kit and Chain recommendations zcarter Yamaha Tech 9 22 Mar 2012 23:21

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:27.