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  #1  
Old 4 Oct 2013
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Lightbulb A traveller's observations

This is in no way intended to offend anyone but is the sort of subject I might start in the pub hence posting it on this forum.

Prior to my latest trip I was convinced to get a computer tablet thingy in the hope of remaining in touch with friends and family for once. The additional reason is that for the first time ever I'm also doing a blog in the hope that those less fortunate may benefit from my ill conceived wafflings.

Anyway, I digress. The reason for this entry - I don't make many - is due to my thoughts and observations whilst browsing this site and enjoying free wifi on my travels.

In my opinion most of the information contained within is excellent however a lot of the new posts/topics/threads don't really appear to hold much relevance to what is an overlander travelling site.

I'm not naming individuals but all I'll say is do we really need regular posts about the more mundane silliness or am I just being old school and a tad grumpy?

The question I would like to ask is if we didn't have 24/7 www access would we really need answers to questions we should all maybe already have the answers to? Or, as is more likely the case, questions that didn't really needed posting in the first place?

Albert Einstein said "I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots"

Now I'm not saying for one minute that this site is full of idiots but do we really need all the information we think we do? What would you do if you couldn't ask everything? What I'm basically trying to say is crack on, stop typing, start riding!

If you keep asking all the questions but know in your heart of hearts you'll never do it, accept the fact and enjoy your life for what it is - it doesn't make it wrong. To those still thinking, imagine your computer screen as a mirror - the biggest problem is staring you right in the face!

As I said at the start, not meant to offend anyone but do we really need all the silliness?

Not sure I really expect (or require ) many replies - for obvious reasons - but just thought I'd air my thoughts and observations in 'the pub'.
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  #2  
Old 4 Oct 2013
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there was a bit of research quoted on the radio the other day that said because we now have such easy access to information, our powers of reasoning, deduction and memory are reducing.

Why work something out or remember it when you can just look it up in an instant.

Just as a minor example, in my work as a solar installer I often have to use trigonometry. Now, when I was at uni many years ago studying optics trig and algebra was the basis for a lot of the physics work we had to do, with no computers to help you and it presented me no problems.

Now, because I can't remember the formula, I just go online, enter a couple of the measurements I know and it works the rest out for me. without computers I would be back to a calculator and paper and would be able to remember the formulae and methods needed.

We no longer have to work out or methodically research anything, we can just go online and find it.
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  #3  
Old 4 Oct 2013
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Running the risk of having a finger pointed in my direction...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post
In my opinion most of the information contained within is excellent however a lot of the new posts/topics/threads don't really appear to hold much relevance to what is an overlander travelling site.
So is this any different from said posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post
I'm not naming individuals but all I'll say is do we really need regular posts about the more mundane silliness or am I just being old school and a tad grumpy?
YES ! If you are on a trip posting this then may be you should do a few less miles and relax some more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post
Albert Einstein said "I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots"
He was indeed so right, I share that view whole heartedly


Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post
Not sure I really expect (or require ) many replies - for obvious reasons - but just thought I'd air my thoughts and observations in 'the pub'.
I think you may be surprised
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  #4  
Old 4 Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post
This is in no way intended to offend anyone but is the sort of subject I might start in the pub hence posting it on this forum.

In my opinion most of the information contained within is excellent however a lot of the new posts/topics/threads don't really appear to hold much relevance to what is an overlander travelling site.

I'm not naming individuals but all I'll say is do we really need regular posts about the more mundane silliness or am I just being old school and a tad grumpy?

The question I would like to ask is if we didn't have 24/7 www access would we really need answers to questions we should all maybe already have the answers to? Or, as is more likely the case, questions that didn't really needed posting in the first place?

Now I'm not saying for one minute that this site is full of idiots but do we really need all the information we think we do? What would you do if you couldn't ask everything? What I'm basically trying to say is crack on, stop typing, start riding!

If you keep asking all the questions but know in your heart of hearts you'll never do it, accept the fact and enjoy your life for what it is - it doesn't make it wrong. To those still thinking, imagine your computer screen as a mirror - the biggest problem is staring you right in the face!

As I said at the start, not meant to offend anyone but do we really need all the silliness?

Mate,

Interesting observations, thanks for sharing.

I would say though, that if a person considers the mission of the site, which if I glance at the top, is probably along the lines of to "inspire, inform and connect" travellers, then a lot of the stuff you may consider silliness, is actually useful to someone on some level.

You may be a little stuck on the "inform" part of the mission. Not everything has to be useful here. Many times it is about travellers connecting to share topics that they think may be of some random interest to other overlanders, whether those overlanders have gone RTW or are merely in the "need to be inspired" stage.

In fact, as the community is quite small, a lot of posts can venture off onto random topics that a person might share with a friend via email but because this in the main source of interation between old riding buddies or simply website friends, this is where it ends up.

In regards to the posting of questions, I assume that people do it for a lot of reasons. The most basic reason is that they don't want to simply sit in isolation, reading a whole bunch of old posts to improve their knowledge. The are likely exhibiting fairly normal human behavour which is to connect with fellow riders and work through the questions as it relates to them at that point in time. Otherwise, we could just download the whole thing and make it a wiki page.

You will see newcomers post the same questions over and over, sometimes they are lazy, but many times they just want to talk through their own internal debate about which bike to buy, is it really dangerous to visit that country, etc. It is much more satisfying to engage in that debate personally than to read up on someone else's debate from a while ago. Once they have accomplished that, then they can move to the next stage of posting whereby you get to be a cranky old guy and tell people that the topic has already been covered in such and such post which is technically correct I guess, but is missing the other aspect which is engagement on the topic on a personal level.

Best of luck on your trip, ride more and post more.
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  #5  
Old 4 Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMan View Post

I would say though, that if a person considers the mission of the site, which if I glance at the top, is probably along the lines of to "inspire, inform and connect" travellers, then a lot of the stuff you may consider silliness, is actually useful to someone on some level.

You may be a little stuck on the "inform" part of the mission. Not everything has to be useful here. Many times it is about travellers connecting to share topics that they think may be of some random interest to other overlanders, whether those overlanders have gone RTW or are merely in the "need to be inspired" stage.

In fact, as the community is quite small, a lot of posts can venture off onto random topics that a person might share with a friend via email but because this in the main source of interation between old riding buddies or simply website friends, this is where it ends up.

In regards to the posting of questions, I assume that people do it for a lot of reasons. The most basic reason is that they don't want to simply sit in isolation, reading a whole bunch of old posts to improve their knowledge. The are likely exhibiting fairly normal human behavour which is to connect with fellow riders and work through the questions as it relates to them at that point in time. Otherwise, we could just download the whole thing and make it a wiki page.

You will see newcomers post the same questions over and over, sometimes they are lazy, but many times they just want to talk through their own internal debate about which bike to buy, is it really dangerous to visit that country, etc. It is much more satisfying to engage in that debate personally than to read up on someone else's debate from a while ago. Once they have accomplished that, then they can move to the next stage of posting whereby you get to be a cranky old guy and tell people that the topic has already been covered in such and such post which is technically correct I guess, but is missing the other aspect which is engagement on the topic on a personal level.

Best of luck on your trip, ride more and post more.
All of that + when folks are bogged down at home, during their winter weather, in 1, 2 or more feet of snow then the banter flows. It acts as a kind of release from not being on the road.

I do understand the OP though: I have had similar thoughts, now and again - the solution is not to read here and do something else, more useful or not.
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  #6  
Old 4 Oct 2013
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My method is probably unacceptable for many.
I only carry a mobile phone in case of emergency and to call home each evening. After I have made the cal it is switched off. I do mean off, not in standby.
My trip itinerary is usually an " I would like to visit there"
My route is vague and in the general direction of my intended destination.
I have no set time table.
I nearly always travel alone.
I don't use satnav on the bike, but have with varying degrees of success used one in my car. I may one day get one for the bike if only to replace the one I sometimes use in the car.
I have found range and comfort of a motorcycle have greater effect on your daily mileage than speed.

my two penny worth or in the new UK Lire 0.8p
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  #7  
Old 5 Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post
This is in no way intended to offend anyone but is the sort of subject I might start in the pub hence posting it on this forum.

Prior to my latest trip I was convinced to get a computer tablet thingy in the hope of remaining in touch with friends and family for once. The additional reason is that for the first time ever I'm also doing a blog in the hope that those less fortunate may benefit from my ill conceived wafflings.

Anyway, I digress. The reason for this entry - I don't make many - is due to my thoughts and observations whilst browsing this site and enjoying free wifi on my travels.

In my opinion most of the information contained within is excellent however a lot of the new posts/topics/threads don't really appear to hold much relevance to what is an overlander travelling site.

I'm not naming individuals but all I'll say is do we really need regular posts about the more mundane silliness or am I just being old school and a tad grumpy?

The question I would like to ask is if we didn't have 24/7 www access would we really need answers to questions we should all maybe already have the answers to? Or, as is more likely the case, questions that didn't really needed posting in the first place?

Albert Einstein said "I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots"

Now I'm not saying for one minute that this site is full of idiots but do we really need all the information we think we do? What would you do if you couldn't ask everything? What I'm basically trying to say is crack on, stop typing, start riding!

If you keep asking all the questions but know in your heart of hearts you'll never do it, accept the fact and enjoy your life for what it is - it doesn't make it wrong. To those still thinking, imagine your computer screen as a mirror - the biggest problem is staring you right in the face!

As I said at the start, not meant to offend anyone but do we really need all the silliness?

Not sure I really expect (or require ) many replies - for obvious reasons - but just thought I'd air my thoughts and observations in 'the pub'.
Welcome to the real world. The web is full of both useful and useless information. I think it pays to be a little more tolerant of folks in general, as we all come from different experiences, backgrounds etc.

We also have some responsibility to educate ( answer questions ) of those that come behind us. Patience is a required strength and there is no doubt some do push the limits but we soldier on.

Its been my experience that there are many right answers, and you have to pick the ones that apply to you.
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  #8  
Old 5 Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon chegwyn View Post

In my opinion most of the information contained within is excellent however a lot of the new posts/topics/threads don't really appear to hold much relevance to what is an overlander travelling site.

The question I would like to ask is if we didn't have 24/7 www access would we really need answers to questions we should all maybe already have the answers to? Or, as is more likely the case, questions that didn't really needed posting in the first place?

What would you do if you couldn't ask everything? What I'm basically trying to say is crack on, stop typing, start riding!

I'm more surprised about how few postings there are on the site - at the time I started this reply there were just over 5000 people rummaging around here, with over 300 of them being registered members. How many postings per day are made - some days hardly any. I'd rather have a load of barely relevant stuff posted than nothing at all. Sure, people should be riding rather than typing but very few of us are on the road all the time and there's more to overlanding life than just some terse factual report about the reliability or otherwise of your transport of choice. I'd like to see much more diversity in what's acceptable here to encourage more posts - and perhaps a little less "snipper" use on some marginal issues. Otherwise we run the risk of the site becoming more museum than meeting place.

Regarding 24/7 www access - be careful what you wish for! I first started bike travelling / touring back in the late 60's and information was almost impossible to come by. Navigation on our first trip to Morocco was done by a page torn from a school atlas - we couldn't find a suitable map in London. Now before someone tells me that Stanfords has been going since the Romans were here, that's exactly the problem - we'd never heard of them or any other map supplier. Had the web been available then I'd certainly have used it - traveling in ignorance sound terribly romantic but what it really means is just wandering around with no idea of where you are. We'd have sold our souls back then for an iPad and a wifi connection.
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  #9  
Old 5 Oct 2013
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Cortez, Pizarro, & Bartolomé de las Casas

Dear Simon, are you familiar with Cortez, the Pizarro brothers and the Spanish priest de las Casas or perhaps Bolivar and San Martin?

Perhaps, or perhaps not?

My point is, that my description of the Hubb Pub includes the latitude to post what is relevant to each of us. As an expat living in Argentina, I have read the history of South America written by a wide variety of authors offering very different points of view. Even the sophomoric YouTube South American history shorts have added to my understanding of past realities, but perhaps more importantly to present day realities regarding common, even if totally untrue, beliefs of others.

We can only understand our own culture by comparing it against another culture of comparable magnitude. Therefore, considering that each reality can only be evaluated in the face of comparable realities, I maintain my position that what ever is true for you , is true for you based on your own experiences and because you believe it to be true, it is true, and if you lose that, you have lost everything.

xfiltrate eat, drink and believe what is true for you
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  #10  
Old 8 Oct 2013
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The biggest issue with ALL forums is........the search function, it would appear that a large percent of people have great difficulty understanding how it functions, it primary use and how to access it!

I have been a Mod on a few forums and gave that up as a joke after reading the same question for the millionth time (slight exaggeration). It's the same here, pick a sub-forum and you can find the same question, written differently page after page (another slight exaggeration).

Get out and ride, cut the umbilical cord with the www and share life with a loved one

Just came back from 10 days riding around Singapore, some say it is to small to spend 10 days riding, is say the more you look the more there is to see, I'll be back for another 10 days
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Old 8 Oct 2013
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A traveller's observations

Interesting replies from the majority and an accurate assumption by one. As I said at the start it wasn't a post intended to offend but clearly some may think it was pointed at them - this was not intentional. Anyway, my finger is still not pointed at any individuals - life's too short. I'm quite happy riding my bike and enjoying life - and this 'traveller' will continue doing what he does - and making infrequent posts as and when he feels it's required. Not a case of bah humbug but there's clearly much more to life! Safe and happy riding to all.
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Old 8 Oct 2013
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I really enjoy the 'silliness' and banter, for the most part. It makes the site livelier and more interesting.

As a couple of folks have pointed out, if it was kept strictly "on topic", it would become a very dry and boring place to visit.
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Old 8 Oct 2013
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[QUOTE=backofbeyond;438951]I'm more surprised about how few postings there are on the site - at the time I started this reply there were just over 5000 people rummaging around here, with over 300 of them being registered members. How many postings per day are made - some days hardly any. QUOTE]

Some folks post on 25 December or even New Years Eve.
I may have even done that myself.

I feel sure that the numbers game you describe is because lots of people read the posts without logging in first; then log in if they have something to contribute - that's what I have just done and now I will log out and get on with other things, such as
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Old 9 Oct 2013
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I agree with the OP to an extent. Online interaction can make us lazy.

Facebook has destroyed my home social circles. No more do we meet at the pub or have movie nights to get together. Everyone just tags each other in photos and in some kind of sub-conscious level, everyone thinks they're socialising.

It's very very very sad


However, the HUBB and similar forums have actually helped me MASSIVELY with meeting people and staying in touch with people who are interesting and relevant to me..

I have met so many fantastic people through this website, home and abroad, that I just would not have in the days before internet.


Point is, find the balance....

I'd rather be sharing ideas/information on here during the cold dark winter nights than sat in front of the TV with my brain melting... Which is probably what I would be doing otherwise.
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  #15  
Old 9 Oct 2013
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IMO, in HUBB there are very few useless threads/posts. You just have to check that the most active people get to 1500 or 3000 and are serious travellers commenting on their experience who have been writing here for long years. Just check any other forum and you'll find thousands of people with easily 15.000 posts.

I agree with you generally, but I would add that internet shows people with unusual interests that they are not alone in the world (or are not actually only weird/idiots in their towns), that there are many others with the same likings. And for people with bad memory -I include myself in this category-, it is a great relief to be able to remember what you definitely know, but cannot remember. In the past I used to search daily in a Larousse Encyclopaedia whenever I looked for that info; I don't do it anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* View Post
I agree with the OP to an extent. Online interaction can make us lazy.

Facebook has destroyed my home social circles. No more do we meet at the pub or have movie nights to get together. Everyone just tags each other in photos and in some kind of sub-conscious level, everyone thinks they're socialising.

It's very very very sad


However, the HUBB and similar forums have actually helped me MASSIVELY with meeting people and staying in touch with people who are interesting and relevant to me..

I have met so many fantastic people through this website, home and abroad, that I just would not have in the days before internet.


Point is, find the balance....

I'd rather be sharing ideas/information on here during the cold dark winter nights than sat in front of the TV with my brain melting... Which is probably what I would be doing otherwise.
Considering we have a similar age, I'd say that family obligations may be another strong reason for that. When people have kids they just don't have time. No doubt, others enjoy facebook and that stuff and remain longer in the office to do it afterwork. Years ago before internet, a friend of mine used to say: "if this telephone conversation is going to last longer than 30 min, then we should definitely meet to talk in person". I like it as a principle.
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