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Old 28 Mar 2009
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I do see your point A' 950...

I've only been riding for 16 years, but even I have noticed the slow change in mentality, where once there was biking the fraternity (something I really enjoyed), now there is biking the elitist hobby where your bike is not a way of life, but more another status symbol.

This is a shame and a world apart from what I enjoy about biking, be it on my old TL1000S back in 2001 or my Ural 750 rig now: how the tides change!!!
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)
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Old 28 Mar 2009
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Glad to see you get my meaning

Nice to see you have an Ural - just the job - smashing !!!!
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Old 29 Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by adventure950 View Post
.................................................. .............
many of these people dont ride bikes other than as a hobby often at sunny weekends and meet at Bike Cafes etc,The bikes are often no more than another trinket on these peoples Tick Box ! ------------- Bye the way many of these types wouldnt give lip service to anyone on a dirty or old or well used bike so really I dont include them in the framework of genuine people with a love of bikes whether sports /trail / chop or whatever. Bye the way I am getting older now so just becoming a bitter twisted misery.
I'll second that from personal experience. I found myself the other year stranded at the side of the road on my RE Bullet with a rear blow out and waiting for the lovely man in a big yellow van to come and take me home. I lost count of the number of Rossi wanna be's that went past without so much as a nod. The only guy to stop and see if all was OK was a on a very well used Guzzi.

But I feel we are digressing a little here, it does however seem that the general conscientious is that driver / rider education is the answer to the problem really. It is more important to have the skills to read the road and traffic conditions.

How many of us have shouted obscenities at cars driving in fog with no lights on, just because it isn't night? Or cars with rear fogs on in the rain? Seen nutters in 4x4's driving far too fast in the snow obviously suffering some sort of illusion that because it's a 4x4 they can but not realising it will still slide off the road at 20mph just as easily as a Fiesta?

As stated earlier it is the road craft that is lacking, far too many road users suffer from the delusion that just because they are sticking to the speed limit they are driving safely. They seem totally unable to assess when it is necessary to travel at 20mph in a 40mph limit. I loose my temper when I hear someone bitching about crashing their car on an icy road with the excuse of 'I was only doing 20' - obvious to anyone with any sense that going slower would have resulted in not crashing. And then my real favourite - 'It wasn't my fault, the road hadn't been gritted' It is an unfortunate extention of the nanny system that we find being imposed upon us, the general driving populus seem to constantly hide behind the excuse of it being someone elses fault ------- how can it be if they are the only bloody vehicle involved? But maybe it's just me and I've been very very lucky in 25 years of driving / riding not to have been involved in a 'single vehicle incident', caused an accident or been caught up in one.

I think I may also be with you A 950 on the getting older and becoming a bitter twisted misery.
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Old 29 Mar 2009
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All good points - but the fundamental question remains - why penalise everyone, for a few stupid people's mistakes?

Regardless of numerous 'safety' measures introduced, unfortunately, a certain percentage continue to be involved in fatal accidents... in the UK this is around 3000 per year - not a lot when you consider the millions of vehicles and journeys undertaken on our roads? (although I admit that is small consolation if an idiot happens to crash into you/someone you know of course).

However, from this we might deduce there are 3000 stupid (or to be kind, 'unlucky') individuals on the roads at anyone time, and those that do wipe themselves out are simply replaced by the lower ranks... Darwin was right you know.

As soon as the government acknowledges this fact the better, but of course they will never admit that a percentage of their electorate is stupid, so instead come up with new and more impressive ways to control the population at large.

Personally I'd like to burn a few sheep in Parliament Square (but we're not allowed to do that anymore of course, they made a law...) - but failing that, if we do see an increase in average speed cameras and inappropriately lowered limits, how about finding out the registration number of your local MP's car (that was provided by the government I should imagine) and clone that... as few hundred tickets should make them start to sit up and take notice?!

The sooner we get away from this obsessive reliance on machines and start to use real people to police the roads again, the better as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 29 Mar 2009
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And More

A couple more points. About 8 years ago a Sussex bike copper told me that here there were 5 things in common in one bike fatal crashes. Male, about 38 to 55 years old, sunny, Sunday, race replica bike. Secondly, once I was out on a flood plain, long, open left hand curve. Tail gating cars at 50mph. My low Guzzi Le Mans sounds epic so I checked behind-nothing, craned my neck to view ahead-nothing for half a mile. I drew out and hugged the right side of the very open bend to get a better view. Then after two cars I drew back in because I had just computed how far a Fireblade on full chat would go in five seconds and what speed it could easily do on this bend. No position overtaking would have given me a chance. That is one more situation I'll always back off from. I know that road is loved by fast bikers. Yes, yes, yes it is a minority but their closing speed is frightening and they are perfect material for media, the anti bike brigade and all campaigners against us--safety, fuel use, noise. I know it's a male need thing but I fear for my own liberty these days. Linzi.
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Old 29 Mar 2009
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Spot on.

We missed pedal cycles and horses in the inapropriate activity list though.

The next question is how do you get all the appropriate groups to work together? I'm a sales rep so I do drive thousands of miles a year and do need to keep up a decent average speed. I know plenty who are so unprofessional as to put an extra appointment over everyones safety. They'd view any campaign as a way to get one up on the guys who don't race. I used to drive trucks. I was a test driver so never had the pressure of meeting delivery windows or trying to get a 21st century milk tanker to a 16th century farm, but I know guys who do. Transport managers ignore everything except the bottom line, so the government easily control them. I've come from the adventure bike thing via litre sized BMW's to sidecars, so the bike community is familiar. Trying telling our clowns that doing the ton or riding three abreast at 40 is anti-social. All these groups have idiots who can't work together.

How do you get our idiots be it leather clad power rangers, Dentists with tassled leather jackets or Ewan and Charlie style Touratech adverts to talk to ten-appointments-a-day sales rep and the guy at the RHA who thinks they should standardise on 50 mph and 70 tonne two trailer mega rigs?

Until something like the AA from early last century exists we are stuffed.

Personally I'd go for passive resistance and an information campaign. Don't speed and the camera revenue will drop. The casualty rate will stay the same (or rise if we can get people to force the police to record the minor stuff they don't tell the insurance about). Trouble is, the population is too ill disiplined to stand the second and third wave of action from the government and the dirty tricks from the statistics office.

Personally, I think I'll enjoy my Diesel Enfield and will get a thrill from running in on chip fat and letting the excise man go himself.

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Old 20 Apr 2009
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Hitler reborn in the shape of ALL UK councils,
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Old 20 Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
Personally I'd go for passive resistance and an information campaign. Don't speed and the camera revenue will drop.
So they just lower the limit again until it goes back up? Isn't that what they're trying to do anyway?

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Old 21 Apr 2009
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Heard this on Radio 4 this morning:

Plans to cut traffic speed limits

Proposals to bring down speed limits in areas where there is a higher risk of accidents have been announced by the government's road safety minister.
Reductions from 30mph to 20mph in urban locations and 60mph to 50mph in the countryside are being considered.
Jim Fitzpatrick said the way people learn to drive and how they are tested is also set for major reform.
The plans are part of a new strategy to reduce road deaths in England and Wales by one-third by 2020.


What I love is how governments always seem to suggest that their speed limiting measures have cut road deaths and injuries, when in the vast majority of cases it's because vehicles have got safer. Many fewer car drivers are killed or seirously injured because of all the airbags etc fitted, yet governments would have us believe it's because of all the speed limits they've instigated.

Simple thing to do is don't vote them back in, stand up for your rights, and take a leaf out of the French book when it comes to protesting. Why are there no wheel clamps in France? Because everyone took it upon themselves to carry a small tube of superglue and glue up the lock of EVERY wheel clamp they saw. Sure it was a pain if it was your car the clampers couldn't release, but it was more of a pain (and cost) for them to have to cut every car out. Result: People 1 - Wheel clamps 0.
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