SCOTTOILER DISAGREEMENT (help!)
 

All,

We are considering fitting a Scottoiler vSYSTEM to our 2005 F650GS bikes in advance of our planned trip to South America. However, we have come across a pretty serious disagreement between Scottoiler and BMW.

The installation of the vSYSTEM relies on a brass spigot inserted into a pre-drilled hole in the rubber inlet manifold. (I have attached a picture below of a fitted spigot in question)

Here is where the problems starts, BMW advise NOT to fit the spigot into this location on all pre 2008 bikes as it accelerates the 'potential' for deterioration of the rubber inlet causing it to fail and your bike exploding killing everything within a 10 mile radius. Apparently, they have experienced problems with this installation hence the pretty straight forward decision.

Scottoiler say they have no record of any problems with this installation.

Has anyone come across this debate before or did you install the spigot as per Scottoilers instructions with/without any problems

We are riding from Buenos Aires to Vancouver and want to be confident that we aren't building in problems for the future but we are equally keen to use a Scottoiler through the 20,000 mile trip.

Any thoughts? Do I? Dont I? Is it worth it for a long trip?

Chris
BUENOS AIRES to VANCOUVER | Chris, Chloe & two motorbikes across South, Central & North America

Wonder why they say fit it there rather than to the airbox like on the twins?

I use a small bottle of gear oil and a one inch brush. nothing to go wrong, and it also means you take a look at your chain each day.

Dave, we tried fitting it to the air box but (unlike the bigger engine) there just wasn't enough suck!

Oldbmw, As my dad always said, 'keep it simple stupid' and while mulling it over today - in my own little wold - I picked up a small three-brush set for just that! I promise you, Scottoiler or not, I will still check it every day - honest. :mchappy:

BUENOS AIRES to VANCOUVER | Chris, Chloe & two motorbikes across South, Central & North America

:thumbup1:
This is the way I would it too.

+1 for the squeezy bottle/old hand wash soap container/couple of big medical syringes approach or even the electric version.

Having some non-essensial aftermarket toy plumbed into the air inlet is just a recipe for trouble later. I had one on my first F650 and it barely lasted past Dover. Leaked, fell off, only had two settings (off and Torrey Canyon/Exxon Vadez).

Andy

My 2 cents, I would say there is no way BMW will sanction the drilling of the manifold to install a non type approved part, the legal consequences could be massive.
I would ask how many spigots Scott Oiler have given out to fit to rubber manifolds and how many failures they have had (not including the ones that were installed by some ham fisted monkey)!
I can't think of anything I would want to do less than lube my chain every morning with a paint brush, but thats just me, on our last trip I used a cheap chain oiler that required me to keep adjusting the dispenser to make sure it did what it was supossed to do, and it did my head in so now I have the scott oiler fitted I'm a very happy chap as it does exactly what I want it to :clap:.

Cheers
Pete
(ps, doing the same trip as you next year but leaving in May and riding to Dakar to pick up the Grimaldi ship, so may see you in SA)

PLEASE NOTE I typed this before Three wheels posted and the remark about the install is no way directed at him

That's good, some sort of time machine at work :rofl:

BMW might mention type approval in their reasoning for not sanctioning this but they'd be wrong. A UK type approval is for a new vehicle. You need type approval before you can sell a bike as new. Once sold, any modification away from the approved spec is a matter between the police, VOSA, the owner and eventually a courts interpretation of construction and use law. I can't concieve any argument that would make a spigot in the intake a legal matter in the UK. This differs from say Germany where the TUV approval applies for the life of the vehicle and must be maintained by only using approved parts. Here the offence is not that you did something dangerous but that you failed to get it checked by the third party. What BMW would really be saying in most juristictions is that if you modify their part they won't take any responsibility.

Their attitude to warranty claims added to a "modified" bike could well be worth thinking about. If the spigot breaks off and goes in the intake, fair enough, no warranty on the engine. Would BMW pay out if the forks snapped though?

OT, What BMW (and others) would dearly like of course is a Super-TUV where the type approval stated every single part, by their part number and that's all you could legally fit. Can you imagine the price of a headlight bulb if it had to have a logo printed on it?

Andy
Waiting to see if this post goes back in time like the last one :confused1:

DO NOT FIT IT TO THE RUBBER...

I've seen it fitted here on a few F650's and the rubber always splits. The brass spigot rocks up and down with the vibration of the engine and it starts to split the rubber causing all sorts of problems.

Find somewhere else or modify it someway to prevent this splitting.

If you HAVE to fit it here, put it in the thickest most rigid bit of rubber you can find and keep your eye on it.

I just drill a hole in the fuel injector body, downstream from the butterfly, tap it, and screw in the Scottoiler adapter. Its now working fine on my '04 F650 GS twin spark model.
I've used this method on Mikuni carbs on other bikes as well. I have never liked the spigot in the rubber sleeve method.
Some might say "what if you stop using the Scottoiler, you have a hole in the injector/carb body?" Easy, just screw in a blanking plug.

Sounds like a good idea to me :thumbup1:

TouringTed, this is exactly what i have been told will happen, I like the idea of going a little further with the tapped hole in the fuel injector body as described by Lowuk, i just need to find the fuel injector body! I might take the afternooon off an head home!!

Mcgiggle, you just never know where we may share a curry, if our ship keeps being delayed then we may end up on the same ship eventually! I will drop you a line via your website and we can stay in touch.

Cheers All.

why can't you just have a tap on the oiler instead of mucking about with you inlet tract?

Think about this, you probably don't want an oil feed to the chain for the last half hour or so of any ride, so having it run then is just silly.

Buy a pro oiler
 

Why not buy a pro-oiler?ive had mine for 3 yrs and i never know its there never broken down and simple to fit.ive got a tomato sauce bottle under the seat for my oil that gets me right through to the next oil change and got a little over 50000km out of my last chain i only changed it because the link broke.They cost a bit more bit its fit and forget

I believe Scottoiler do a fully electronic version now, which doesn't need attaching to anything but the battery. Have you thought of that as an (expensive / complicated) alternative?

I'm more than happy with the Scott's perfomance but after a long think (and having a spare manifold in the garage) I ended up with this yesterday.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...tlebody001.jpg http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...tlebody002.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...tlebody003.jpg

Revised title - scottoiler agreement
 

All,

Your thoughts have been invaluable and I have been surprised with the diversity of answers, there appears to be a love hate rivalry with automatic lubricants system and the good old, tried and tests DIY!

I spoke with a great many people, including the head technician (in person) at BMW Manchester who gave me a straight answer.

BMW do fit the spigot to the older F650GS rubber manifold and they do encourage others to do so, Naturally, that other person "should also be a qualified technician from an approved BMW outlet" ;)

From talking to other mechanics problems tend to stem from Ham Fisted installations which are destined to fail. But, the VAST majority of people (who are probably users of the system) are clearly happy and would recommend having the Oiler.

To bring things to a (happy) conclusion, Scottioler now have 2 more additions to the vSystem family, both born on Sunday and will be tested today with a trip from Manchester to Fife (and back later this week).

Rest assured, I will keep you all up-to-date on every move that little spigot makes!

- curry man, just wish I saw your post yesterday before I went for the power drill and drill bit!

Cheers All.

Chris
BUENOS AIRES to VANCOUVER | Chris, Chloe & two motorbikes across South, Central & North America

having had dealings with both scottoiler and bmw i would trust the scots, i wouldnt trust bmw as far as i could throw their £270 heated grips

Reassuringly expensive eh !!!

Just like Stella Artois, which still gives me a raging hangover...(if you remember the commercials)

I'm not a fan of scotoilers. I think they're counter-productive psychologically. There is a tendency to feel that once they're fitted you no longer to worry about the chain. Oil sticks to road dirt and turns into a low grade grinding paste. I feel it's best to just keep the chain clean and lightly lubed to keep it healthy. For my money I'd fit a decent chain, ie anything other than a stock BMW one and just keep it tidy manually.

I used to feel the same as you until my chain life doubled after fitting mine.

Those who 'Fit and forget' can only blame themselves. I think you would find that those who never inspect their chain after fitting an oiler probably wouldn't do even if they hadn't. At least their lubricated chain will be in better condition than a non-lubricated one.

Anyway, the scott oiler feed pipes fall off and snap so often, that you're always down by your chain having a fettle. :rofl:

Good point, I guess. I'm surprised the life doubled, or to be honest you noticed any difference if you cleaned and lubed the chain regularly yourself. Impressive stuff.

When you're sometimes riding 200 mile days, for days on end. You can't practically oil your chain every 100 miles.

For the average biker who rides maybe 2000 miles a year, I agree that you probably wouldn't notice if you bother with maintenance at all.

For those doing serious miles such as continent crossing, constant lubrication really does seem to make a difference.

If you can be one of those people who oils there chain twice a day, you're a far better man than me bier

The other thing with the oil used for these types of thing, is that it's thinner and not designed to stick to the chain like stuff from a can. It flings off taking with it the grit and dirt that would otherwise stick, and is constantly replenished from a clean source.

The trick is learning the right setting to keep the chain lubed and not the entire back of the bike! :)

I have never had a problem with spending the 5 mins cleaning and lubing the chain daily. It's just part of the bike checks on or off road.

I only have one word for you:
LoobMan

I have one on my F650GS and it's really cheap to buy, easy to fit AND really good.

Cheers bloke

Nigel in NZ

I disagree, 6 jeiger worth of junk, may work if you do 5 miles a day to work and back, ours didn't make it out of Europe.
Oh no just noticed we're on a chain oiling thread again :nono: wasn't the thread about drilling inlet manifolds ;)

Scottoiler competiiton
 

All,

Since we like the Scots so much, they have kindly returned the favour with a sneaky competition.

Scottoiler $2000 Prize Fund Competition - Scottoiler vSystem Carb EO Chain Oiler

Dave ett made a good point, the important thing to remember is the Oiler uses a thinner lube than just good old engine oil.

We are just back from a 500 mile round trip in 3 days, (granted it has been on tarmac - and we will be seeing a lot worse in months to come) but both chains are sparkling with 'just the right amount of lube sitting between the rings' There is no over spill nor is the wheel or - for that matter - my neck covered in lube.

Its all in the correct flow. :D

Chris
BUENOS AIRES to VANCOUVER | Chris, Chloe & two motorbikes across South, Central & North America

There is excellent alternative to scottoiler developed and sold on ebay.uk by what I believe is bunch of motorcyclists with engineering background.
I installed 2 of them to bikes of my friends and they never looked back. Main advantage is type of pump they using and independent from vacuum + cheap.
Very well made too.
The only thing I changed - I made "splitter" block with 2 nozzles that attaches to end of hose coming out of oiler to lubricate O-rings zone from 2 sides. But probably with latest variant they make - wick nozzle - it won't be needed.
One like this:

Motorcycle automatic chain oiler | eBay