Chain Maintanance in Sand ?
 

Hi All, i have always maintained my chains with regular use of high quality chain lube but what do you do in a sandy country like Morocco? Does chain lube and sand make grinding paste? Is daily cleaning of the chain and brushing on light weight oil the answer or am i worrying for nothing and should keep applying my chain lube? Andy
PS please no GS tractor boys gloating about the virtues of their shaft drives or i may be forced to put on a link to the Hitler VFR video, still the best vid out there.

I think just clean with parafin (correction - kerosene, sorry no option to score out) & toothbrush as it has some lube qualities, adding oil will just make the sand stick to the chain.

Not sure Morocco's more sandy than many other places in the world you'd be riding off pavement, but aside from that consideration I just sprayed with WD40 as often as I thought of it, and my chain lasted from Germany throughout southern Europe, ex-Yugoslavia, a month of Morocco and all the way up to Tromso...about 15,000 miles/25,000 km. Exactly as long, in other words, as it would have if I'd been taking proper care.

I wasn't taking proper care. My theory, which others share, is that anything sticky attracts stuff which I don't like. WD 40 is mainly just a cleaner which happens to come in an aerosol can, doubles for drying out wiring, and is easy to spot on store shelves. This self-justifying theory allows me to do what I'd do anyway, but with a clear conscience. I don't use a brush either: spray, sometimes wipe, then ignore.

Mileage, they say, varies.

Mark

YES, WD40.

This is where you feel the virtues of a shaft drive. Where you don't feel the virtue is when a £3 bearing craps out and BMW want £1500 to swap it out for you. I went back to a chain.
There is a school of thouht that lubricating the chain is a bad move. The actual moving bearing surfaces are sealed internally and oil on the outside attracts dirt (or sand) and turns into grinding paste. I would just keep it clean with a solvent and keep my eye on it.

I do the chain each night, normally using chain cleaner to remove the crap, then either a light spray oil if I know I'm not piste riding, otherwise WD40.

All you are really doing is lubricating the chain/sprocket interface as the chain should have its own internal lubrication.

My Tenere has so far done 19000km inside Morocco on the first chain. No sign of hooking yet but will probably renew the chain and sprockets before the next trip.

Thanks
 

Hi All, thanks for the advice, WD40 seems to be the way to go.
Tim, special thanks, i decided to tour the Moroccon pistes this summer on my Tenere after reading your ride reports on Avdrider and your advice link. Andy

generally in sand run the chain dry (theres oil in there them links!). oh and wd40 destroys rubber so im told - so not too good for orings....

You find lots of warnings against using WD40 on chains in bicycle forums which might not be so un-relevant for us here too. WD40 is designed to penetrate and clean, not so much to lubricate. It can penetrate the O-rings and establish itself as thin film underneath the O-ring lubricants. Which may result in the original lubricant being flushed out over time.

Lots of ways to evaluate use of WD40. You could, for example, go with what you "heard" about it attacking o-rings. You could go with your suspicion that it might "result in the original lubricant being flushed out over time." You could base your decisions on the basis of what people say about bicycle chains which, you'll have noticed, don't even have o-rings (or any lube at all aside from what you apply yourself).

On the other hand, you could instead go with the empirical evidence which suggests that WD-40 works just fine on o-ring or x-ring chains. Me, I don't take good care of my chains and they last a minimum of 12,000 miles/20,000 km and a maximum approaching 20,000 miles/35,000 km (I don't log stuff like this, and I don't pay close attention). That's about the same as I used to get when I did take care of chains.

There are people on other lists (e.g., the DSN KLR Yahoo group) who regularly report going 35,000 miles (that's 60,000 km) on x-ring chains using nothing but WD 40. They seem to be much more finicky than I; for example, they clean their chains at every fill-up or whenever they've been out in the rain. On the other end of the spectrum, I regularly go 500 to 800 miles between cleanings whether it rains or not, and I sometimes ride dirt and gravel all day, then neglect to clean the chain before going out and doing it again the next day. Shameful, huh?

Make your choice, but think about trying something different every now and then to see if it really matters. Far as I can tell, it doesn't make much difference. What I have observed personally is that using a chain lube in sand or silt results in observable rapid wear of sprockets; you can practically see them getting hooked and dished.

enjoy,

Mark

Checked my notes and it was actually Kerosene I used. Got 30k kms out of my DR650 chain with cleaning every other day using a toothbrush. Occasionally used spray chain oil where I could buy it.

Interesting comment on using WD40 on bike chains at the end of this article:
Motorcycle Chain Lube and the Grunge Brush - webBikeWorld

Am I the only Scottoiler fan out here ?

Approaching 14k (miles, not those new fangled Kms), the bikes have crossed Texas, Chihauhau, central/west Mexico and are currently in Peru... quite a lo of desert and sand IMO.

Only adjusted 5 times so far.

Personally, I don't like Scottoilers. Too expensive, too complicated and unfixable if they break. I've had a Loobman chainoiler installed on my Tenere. Very basic principle: plastic bottle, squeeze some oil into a tiny reservoir and let gravity do what it does best: gravitate. Unfortunately I had to sell the bike after about 20,000 km but didn't have to adjust the chain once!

Admittedly I haven't tried WD40 yet but I've been warned that it cleans and destroys more than it lubricates. I'll install another Loobman on my new Tenere, it's definitely worth the money. Oh, forgot to mention that: it only costs arout 20 quid.

Scotoilers
 

HI, i have always been a bit paranoid about getting chain oil on my tyres and have therefore avoided getting a scotoiler despite living only a few miles from their headquarters (nice people). I have good friends who love them. Would using one while off roading in sand creating grinding paste ? Leaving dry or WD40 is making more sense to me, but i don't know which is why i asked the questions. Andy

Short answer - yes!! Disconnected mine, it later caught fire whilst riding although this was not a problem to do with the Scottoiler! Great products away from sand though......

I beg to differ, I believe that by turning up the Scottoiler it will wash the sand out.

I'd say the best thing the OP can do is actually ring and ask Scottoiler them selves. It saves guess work and assumptions.

Ok, so a Scottoiler costs around 80GBP, I had one fitted to my XJR1300 when I bought it in 1999. It has now done 77,000 miles, 15000 in the USA. It has not broken.

I know about loobman, but I like not having to remember to squeeze the bulb :-)

Don't worry about the oil on the tyre, IMO you get less on it than you d with spray lube.

If not using scottoiler il, use chainsaw oil, "low sling, high cling".

Ask Scottoiler themselves about using off road in sand,.

As I have said I have ridden across deserts during the last 4 months (on tarmac) and no issues. We have just done some dirt roads and I am turning up the flow to "wash" the chain"

If using WD40, I'd suggest taking lots and using once or twice daily.

As noted earlier in the thread, if you are riding in sand (as opposed to riding on tarmac through desert areas), run your chain dry. You will be amazed how clean your chain is after a day in the dunes.

Using a scottoiler in sand, IMHO, is a very bad idea as it attracts sand to the chain, rather than repelling it.

If you are riding gravel or harder rockier pistes as is more typical of Morocco, then an off-road chain lube such as Motul (or WD-40 if you are desperate) works well.

Silicone
 

A good friend of mine was once on the Australian International Six Day Enduro Team. Whilst training at the Australian Institute of Sport apart from fitness training they also do bike repairs and maintainance. They were told never use WD40 or simliar on your chain. It gets into the inside of the chain and waters down the chains internal lubricant. Its a drying agent not a lube as such. After cleaning the bike they were advised to spray the chain with a silicone based lube. After that they never lube at all. They have proven that all lubing or oiling your chain does is dirty your bike and make it harder to clean. It flicks off in the first kilometre and as stated above you are really only lubricating the contact between the chain and sprocket. The O Rings make it nearly impossible for thick lube to penetrate into the chain rollers. Correct adjustment is the key to stop snatching and pulling at the sprocket teeth. Thats just what I was told so take out of it what you will. Thanks.:thumbup1:

The scottoiler is not intended to penetrate the rollers, it is there to aid the movement f the chain over the sprockets, cool it and lube the links.

Ultimately, it works.

pro oiler
 

has anyone tried the pro-oiler?ive had one on my africa twin since i brought it and got 55000km out of my first chain,only changed it because the main link broke but the rest of the chain was still in good nick.also easy to adjust the oil output just push a button on the dash mounted controller and when riding in sand i just turn it up to full bore and it soaks the chain in oil and the sand just flicks off.great device.

Interesting, I used silicon spray on my mountain bike chain when riding in sand and dirt during competitions in my youth but I wonder if the same stuff is what these guys used on the motorbikes, any ideas what brand of silicon spry they used??

The other advantage of silicon sprays (or lube) is that you can us it to waterproof your riding gear unlike WD40... beer

I had a Scottoiler on my DRZ... The sand stuck to the chain all over and made a right old mess.. It's hard to say what damage it did.. Although, I can't see how having sand all over your chain couldn't. It's an obvious coarse abrasive..

I'd go for no oil at all if I was in sand.


O-ring/X-ring chains are packed with grease. The rings are there to keep it in....

Using WD40 (a fantastic penetrant and degreaser) is only going to flush that grease out of there. I wouldn't use it on an o-ring chain at all. Not for the reason that is perishes rubber but it will get under the rings and remove the grease.

A point worth noting is that im sure you can wear a chain out faster while travelling than WD40 can rot it..

Keeping your chain clean, adjusted and then oiled for the highway is probably the best care you can give it...

We go round and round on this every week or three. I use only WD40 on my chain, and it doesn't rot o-rings, x-rings or anything else. Nor does it "remove the grease." It does wash off sand and dirt, and my chains last as long as anyone else's. I'm not very attentive, and often go days on end without even glancing at my chain. I try to give it a rinse at the end of any day I've been riding off-road, but I often forget.

When I used oil, grease and/or wax my chains wore out faster. That's how I ended up with WD40.

Take that for whatever it's worth to you.

Mark

Just to ask, how do you know if it doesn't remove the grease ?? The only way to know is to start grinding out links and rollers to check it...

I obviously don't know if it does either but WD40 does a bloody good job of penetrating and it dissolves grease pretty well too !! :eek2:

So I believe, O-ring chains are factory impregnated with enough grease to last it's lifetime (usually). You only really oil a chain to stop it rusting and to stop the 0-rings drying out..








EK chain:
Do not use harsh solvents or chemicals, such as gasoline or benzene. EK recommends using a biodegradable degreaser with a soft (non-wire) bristle brush or clean cloth for removing dirt. Use kerosene (paraffin oil) if necessary, let dry and lubricate immediately within 10 minutes.
EK Motorcycle & ATV Chain

RK Chain:
Q How should I maintain my O-ring chain?
A. Doing routine maintenance on any chain is a crucial step to getting the maximum wearlife out of your chain. You should clean and check its adjustment every 400 miles (sooner if the chain gets excessively dirty). Use formulated O-ring chain cleaner or other similar product to keep dirt from building up around link plates and rollers. Don’t use a wire brush or pressure washer. If your chain comes in contact with water, be sure to use a moisture displacement (like WD40). Lubing an O-Ring chain is vital for maximum wearlife. All RK O-Ring chains are injected at the factory with a lifetime supply of internal lubricant. The purpose of an O-Ring lube is to keep the chain from rusting and the O-rings from drying out. We recommend RK special formula O-Ring Chain Lube because it is a non-aerosol, specifically formulated to stick the chain, yet not attract excessive dirt.
Welcome to RK Excel America - FAQ

Regina:
If the chain is not too dirty, the operation of lubrication is normally sufficient to clean the chain.
When the accumulation of dirt on the chain (sand, mud, asphalt particles or other foreign materials) is excessive, the chain must be washed with a brush and kerosene. After washing, the chain has to be dried immediately with a jet of compressed air.
After off-road use, when the dirt built-up is heavy, wash the chain with a water jet, then dry it immediately with compressed air.
Avoid the use of steam, gasoline or solvents.
When cleaning O-Ring chains, avoid the use of hard brushes or other methods that could damage the rubber O-Rings (compressed air should be kept at 50 cm/2 ft distance minimum).
After washing, immediately lubricate the chain as explained in the next chapter.
http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_an...how_to03.shtml

Tsubaki:
To clean your Tsubaki chain, it is first necessary to raise the motorcycle on its centre stand with the engine off and the transmission in neutral. Then rotate the rear wheel of the motorcycle (using care to keep your fingers away from the sprockets and chain), spray a moisture displacement lubricant to one side of the chain. After 2 or 3 full revolutions, switch sides and repeat. In this manner you have floated the dirt off the chain and now you need to wipe off the chain with a clean cloth to remove the excess lubricant and dirt residue. Never use a flammable solvent such as gasoline, benzine or kerosene. Additionally, never use water, detergents, steam cleaner or a coarse brush as these damage the chain.
TSUBAKI RIDER Motor Chain

Diamond Chain:
O-ring chains may be cleaned externally by washing in kerosene. Do not use
any other cleaning agent or the O-rings may be damaged. When cleaning O-ring chain, clean only the external areas of the chain.
Do not attempt to force kerosene into the pin-bush cavity.
For chains which are still usable, soak them in SAE 40 or 50 automotive engine oil (without additives).
Flexing the chain in oil will assure greater penetration of lubricant. Inspect
and clean sprockets.
http://www.diamondchain.co.uk/usr_do...ycle_chain.pdf

Great: be my guest. On a long trip, be sure to carry whatever branded products the manufacturer suggests you use.

I know grease is not being driven out from behind my seals because my chains last as long as yours (I'm being presumptuous here, but someone's got to go out on a limb). If spraying quart after quart of WD40 on my chains were removing grease, my chains would wear out rather quickly, just like non-o-ring chains do.

I don't even worry about rust, personally. I use the WD40 as a cleaner: spray liberally while rotating the wheel and all that abrasive sand falls off. Give it a quick wipe with a rag if I'm feeling thorough. Life is good. My chains go 15-20,000 miles without problems. Sprockets last twice that. Considering I'm very haphazard in even bothering to spray my chains clean, I think that's evidence I'm doing the right thing. At least, it seems to be working for me.

If I ran only on nice, clean pavement I might use a chain lube. Sadly, wherever I go the pavement is dirty--sometimes filthy. And for some reason I always seem to find sand, mud, clay and other stuff along the way. Like I said, when I used to use lubes, greases or wax my chains didn't last as long as they do now--and I was spending a lot more time and money trying to take care of them.

Your experience may vary. I don't mind that in the least. If you tell me that your chosen chain-care regime yields longer chain and sprocket wear than I'm getting, I'll gladly bow to your obviously superior knowledge and dedication to proper maintenance....but I'll keep doing what I'm doing, since it sure does seem to work.

I do get irritated periodically at reading silly stuff about how WD40 "rots" o-rings. Why do you suppose the RK instructions you quote above recommend using WD40? What do you think the Tsubaki instructions are telling you to use? Why would they do that? You really think they want you spraying your chains with something that causes rubber to rot and grease to run out on the ground? C'mon.

A good chain lubrication thread once every few months feels remarkably similar to belching after a big meal. Not as fattening, though.

Safe journeys!

Mark

It's really stupid for anyone to use anything sticky on a chain. It's just common sense. You just turn it into grinding paste. Never use the marketed chain lube sprays. AFAIK they're all sticky.

Basically the function of this lubing is always going to be a contentious issue. To me it's a case of lubing the rings to keep the grease inside the pins. Rubber dries out so doing this is key. I ride mostly in a dusty, muddy and sandy areas in Oz her including in the beach which gets a lot of salt spray and water on it. So keeping the rings lubed is key. What I do is in order to keep the grease in the pins. Key to this is trying to keep it as clean as possible. So no sticky shit at all. To me the only way to do this is to lube is with a non sticky oil tube lube. I've been using ATF which here you can get everywhere including in the supermarket. It doesn't stick and doesn't make a mess beyond what any chain would make. I can wipe mud off it with a rag and some turps and put some more on. Just drip some on with a camping hand wash bottle and an old tooth brush. On a big trip I'll be using engine oil to save me having to bring an extra fluid. I apply it after every ride in the evening. This way it has plenty of time to do it's thing and leave a nice shine on the rings for the next day's ride.

We all have our own little things we do, but for me I'm convinced this works. The first trip I've used the spray stuff and the chain had to be replaced halfway by the time I got to Kazakhstan. The second time the chain lasted the whole trip (18k km), survived shipping and fumigation in Oz and heaps of dusty trips and is still on there now. Don't know how often it go adjusted because I've gone through a couple of sets of tyres. But I can't remember more than once. YMMV but I reckon chain oilers are a waste of money and time and are just lazy. They won't survive proper off roading but with non-sticky fluids could work, but a chain needs cleaning every now and again. A little wipe with a rag is usually enough with non-sticky fluids.

oilage
 

No Bruce you're not the only fan mate!
You can turn them down when you need to and up when you want.
Use them as a sort of "over lube" system to fling off the dust and sand that sticks to the oil before it turns to grinding paste but, they are a real marmite thing to folks!
Used them since the late 80's on and off and although I have had probs have always gone back to them for some reason?
You can get extra reservoirs for them so setting them on a high flow for dusty conditions isn't so much of a drain on the meager res of the main unit.
Each to their own though!
I do like the sound of the ATF, used to use old engine oil myself.
Always used to set the feed tube up on the front sprocket though on off roaders, opposite to the maunf recommendations.
Although, a tooth brush and WD40 (never had a prob with that either) on the chain works for me too.
Have fun.
Dave.

Doesn't it just bier

I've got nothing against WD40, I've got tons of the stuff.. Love it !! I don't think it rots 0-rings either. My chains get eaten my miles before the rings get a chance to rot... Maybe its different for the "leisure" riders who spray their chains with it and put the bike away until the next Touratech meeting. Their chains have to survive ten years before they get 10,000 miles on them.

Either way... I suck at chain maintenance. I'm too busy sipping a cold beer with my feet up when I should be checking my chain. In reality, who really rides 200 miles and then gets down in the hot sun to clean their chain.

I'd rather replace the chain and sprockets twice as often if it means I don't have to fettle my chain every night with a box full of cleaning products...

I keep it adjusted and leave the scott oiler to do it's magic :D

Yeah, I do sadly. Only not in the sun though. It's simple with a bit of help who holds the rear wheel of the ground. Just turn the rear wheel and drop the droplets on the chain. Run the toothbrush over it and you're good as gold. As easy as taking your boots off.

Do have to say that I removed the counter sprocket cover which just builds up gunk. Will also remove the chain guide once I've finished my build.

You're a better man than me !! :D

bier

It's more a case of hating with a passion dealing with chains and sprockets. In particular road side. That and tyres. I rather stand on the side of the road with a soldering iron fixing my own crap electrical connections. Luckily that is something you get better at. Chains and tyres will always be a PITA.

I'm the same, actually found it quite therapeutic cleaning my chain with kerosene and a toothbrush with the bike propped up on the walking stick every few days...got 30,000kms out of the chain so like to think it helped prolong the chain/sprockets life which was a good job as I didn't find any replacements until I actually really needed them.

30,000 km = 18,000 miles = normal life of a good chain even if you leave the toothbrush behind (unless you coat it with something sticky before riding on sand or dirt, in which case it won't last that long).

Although: mileage varies....but you knew that.

Of course if it's therapy you're after, well, who am I to interfere? I get mine elsewhere, and it involves neither toothbrush nor kerosene.

Mark

Problem is that new chains also have some of the pin grease on the rings. This will create some sticky business on itself.

I usually end up wearing the front sprocket before the chain goes. Who swaps the front sprocket halfway through the chain life? Or when the teeth start to look worn an hooked? Wonder if this really does increase chain wear.

I swap sprockets when they look fairly worn. This is never once per chain; more often once per two chains (front or rear or both). Doesn't seem to cut into my chain life, despite all the theory which says it should.

If you're really changing out a front sprocket in less time than your chain wears out, you're definitely doing something different from me. What do you think? How many miles/km to wear out a front sprocket? Why so fast?

As for the grease slathered all over a new chain: yep, until the first wash with WD40. In fact, maybe that's what I'm really doing with my spray cleaning: I'm washing off the grinding paste which otherwise eats sprockets. That would go a long way towards explaining why I always seem to go two chains per set of sprockets, minimum.

Or not: what do I know? It's just a theory.

Mark

I recently met a bloke in outback South Australia who used an XR as a scout vehicle when taking heavy machinery to remote areas. The chain on the bike was rusty as hell and I joked about it needing a quick lube. He said he'd never use any type of lube on his chain because it picks up all the dust and sand and grinds it away, as many people here have said. He reckons just putting it on and leaving it alone gets him the most out of it.

I don't think we'll ever all agree on whether WD40 is good to use or not, but kerosene or paraffin (or maybe engine oil / ATF) seems the best option to me. Years ago all anybody did was soak the chains in engine oil and wipe off the excess and it seemed to work for them.

I concur with what Markharf has said. Run the chain dry and forget about it.

I rode to Morocco and back, riding on sand and trails then back at home for a while. I may of adjusted it once in a while but other than that ran it dry.

Now back home I never oil my chains on both my XT or my XR trail bike, just use WD-40 to clean them.

I have noticed no real difference between the longevity of an oiled chain as opposed a dry chain, but then like others I don't log it or anything. The only difference is the noise- a dry chain clatters a bit, but as far as I can see this does no harm and you soon get used to it.

Get a good quality x-ring chain and run it dry is my advice.

Dan

Baja
 

We arrived in Baja in time for the Baja 1000 race, I talked to several desert racers and dirt bike riders and they all said to clean the chain with kerosene and run them dry in sand.

I carried on using my trusty PJ1 Blue label though and cleaned the chain when back on the pavement - to be honest how much sand are you going to be doing in the life of a chain!

Paul

www.twobikesrunnibg.co.uk