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  #16  
Old 4 Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by henryuk View Post
Short answer - yes!! Disconnected mine, it later caught fire whilst riding although this was not a problem to do with the Scottoiler! Great products away from sand though......
I beg to differ, I believe that by turning up the Scottoiler it will wash the sand out.

I'd say the best thing the OP can do is actually ring and ask Scottoiler them selves. It saves guess work and assumptions.
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  #17  
Old 4 Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by mj View Post
Personally, I don't like Scottoilers. Too expensive, too complicated and unfixable if they break. I've had a Loobman chainoiler installed on my Tenere. Very basic principle: plastic bottle, squeeze some oil into a tiny reservoir and let gravity do what it does best: gravitate. Unfortunately I had to sell the bike after about 20,000 km but didn't have to adjust the chain once!

Admittedly I haven't tried WD40 yet but I've been warned that it cleans and destroys more than it lubricates. I'll install another Loobman on my new Tenere, it's definitely worth the money. Oh, forgot to mention that: it only costs arout 20 quid.
Ok, so a Scottoiler costs around 80GBP, I had one fitted to my XJR1300 when I bought it in 1999. It has now done 77,000 miles, 15000 in the USA. It has not broken.

I know about loobman, but I like not having to remember to squeeze the bulb :-)
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  #18  
Old 4 Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by Andysr6 View Post
HI, i have always been a bit paranoid about getting chain oil on my tyres and have therefore avoided getting a scotoiler despite living only a few miles from their headquarters (nice people). I have good friends who love them. Would using one while off roading in sand creating grinding paste ? Leaving dry or WD40 is making more sense to me, but i don't know which is why i asked the questions. Andy
Don't worry about the oil on the tyre, IMO you get less on it than you d with spray lube.

If not using scottoiler il, use chainsaw oil, "low sling, high cling".

Ask Scottoiler themselves about using off road in sand,.

As I have said I have ridden across deserts during the last 4 months (on tarmac) and no issues. We have just done some dirt roads and I am turning up the flow to "wash" the chain"

If using WD40, I'd suggest taking lots and using once or twice daily.
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  #19  
Old 4 Feb 2011
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As noted earlier in the thread, if you are riding in sand (as opposed to riding on tarmac through desert areas), run your chain dry. You will be amazed how clean your chain is after a day in the dunes.

Using a scottoiler in sand, IMHO, is a very bad idea as it attracts sand to the chain, rather than repelling it.

If you are riding gravel or harder rockier pistes as is more typical of Morocco, then an off-road chain lube such as Motul (or WD-40 if you are desperate) works well.
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  #20  
Old 4 Feb 2011
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Silicone

A good friend of mine was once on the Australian International Six Day Enduro Team. Whilst training at the Australian Institute of Sport apart from fitness training they also do bike repairs and maintainance. They were told never use WD40 or simliar on your chain. It gets into the inside of the chain and waters down the chains internal lubricant. Its a drying agent not a lube as such. After cleaning the bike they were advised to spray the chain with a silicone based lube. After that they never lube at all. They have proven that all lubing or oiling your chain does is dirty your bike and make it harder to clean. It flicks off in the first kilometre and as stated above you are really only lubricating the contact between the chain and sprocket. The O Rings make it nearly impossible for thick lube to penetrate into the chain rollers. Correct adjustment is the key to stop snatching and pulling at the sprocket teeth. Thats just what I was told so take out of it what you will. Thanks.
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  #21  
Old 4 Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by Shireboy View Post
A good friend of mine was once on the Australian International Six Day Enduro Team. Whilst training at the Australian Institute of Sport apart from fitness training they also do bike repairs and maintainance. They were told never use WD40 or simliar on your chain. It gets into the inside of the chain and waters down the chains internal lubricant. Its a drying agent not a lube as such. After cleaning the bike they were advised to spray the chain with a silicone based lube. After that they never lube at all. They have proven that all lubing or oiling your chain does is dirty your bike and make it harder to clean. It flicks off in the first kilometre and as stated above you are really only lubricating the contact between the chain and sprocket. The O Rings make it nearly impossible for thick lube to penetrate into the chain rollers. Correct adjustment is the key to stop snatching and pulling at the sprocket teeth. Thats just what I was told so take out of it what you will. Thanks.
The scottoiler is not intended to penetrate the rollers, it is there to aid the movement f the chain over the sprockets, cool it and lube the links.

Ultimately, it works.
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  #22  
Old 9 May 2011
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pro oiler

has anyone tried the pro-oiler?ive had one on my africa twin since i brought it and got 55000km out of my first chain,only changed it because the main link broke but the rest of the chain was still in good nick.also easy to adjust the oil output just push a button on the dash mounted controller and when riding in sand i just turn it up to full bore and it soaks the chain in oil and the sand just flicks off.great device.
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  #23  
Old 9 May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shireboy View Post
After cleaning the bike they were advised to spray the chain with a silicone based lube. After that they never lube at all. They have proven that all lubing or oiling your chain does is dirty your bike and make it harder to clean.
Interesting, I used silicon spray on my mountain bike chain when riding in sand and dirt during competitions in my youth but I wonder if the same stuff is what these guys used on the motorbikes, any ideas what brand of silicon spry they used??

The other advantage of silicon sprays (or lube) is that you can us it to waterproof your riding gear unlike WD40...
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  #24  
Old 9 May 2011
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I had a Scottoiler on my DRZ... The sand stuck to the chain all over and made a right old mess.. It's hard to say what damage it did.. Although, I can't see how having sand all over your chain couldn't. It's an obvious coarse abrasive..

I'd go for no oil at all if I was in sand.


O-ring/X-ring chains are packed with grease. The rings are there to keep it in....

Using WD40 (a fantastic penetrant and degreaser) is only going to flush that grease out of there. I wouldn't use it on an o-ring chain at all. Not for the reason that is perishes rubber but it will get under the rings and remove the grease.

A point worth noting is that im sure you can wear a chain out faster while travelling than WD40 can rot it..

Keeping your chain clean, adjusted and then oiled for the highway is probably the best care you can give it...
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  #25  
Old 9 May 2011
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We go round and round on this every week or three. I use only WD40 on my chain, and it doesn't rot o-rings, x-rings or anything else. Nor does it "remove the grease." It does wash off sand and dirt, and my chains last as long as anyone else's. I'm not very attentive, and often go days on end without even glancing at my chain. I try to give it a rinse at the end of any day I've been riding off-road, but I often forget.

When I used oil, grease and/or wax my chains wore out faster. That's how I ended up with WD40.

Take that for whatever it's worth to you.

Mark
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  #26  
Old 9 May 2011
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Originally Posted by markharf View Post
We go round and round on this every week or three. I use only WD40 on my chain, and it doesn't rot o-rings, x-rings or anything else. Nor does it "remove the grease." It does wash off sand and dirt, and my chains last as long as anyone else's. I'm not very attentive, and often go days on end without even glancing at my chain. I try to give it a rinse at the end of any day I've been riding off-road, but I often forget.

When I used oil, grease and/or wax my chains wore out faster. That's how I ended up with WD40.

Take that for whatever it's worth to you.

Mark
Just to ask, how do you know if it doesn't remove the grease ?? The only way to know is to start grinding out links and rollers to check it...

I obviously don't know if it does either but WD40 does a bloody good job of penetrating and it dissolves grease pretty well too !!

So I believe, O-ring chains are factory impregnated with enough grease to last it's lifetime (usually). You only really oil a chain to stop it rusting and to stop the 0-rings drying out..








EK chain:
Do not use harsh solvents or chemicals, such as gasoline or benzene. EK recommends using a biodegradable degreaser with a soft (non-wire) bristle brush or clean cloth for removing dirt. Use kerosene (paraffin oil) if necessary, let dry and lubricate immediately within 10 minutes.
EK Motorcycle & ATV Chain

RK Chain:
Q How should I maintain my O-ring chain?
A. Doing routine maintenance on any chain is a crucial step to getting the maximum wearlife out of your chain. You should clean and check its adjustment every 400 miles (sooner if the chain gets excessively dirty). Use formulated O-ring chain cleaner or other similar product to keep dirt from building up around link plates and rollers. Don’t use a wire brush or pressure washer. If your chain comes in contact with water, be sure to use a moisture displacement (like WD40). Lubing an O-Ring chain is vital for maximum wearlife. All RK O-Ring chains are injected at the factory with a lifetime supply of internal lubricant. The purpose of an O-Ring lube is to keep the chain from rusting and the O-rings from drying out. We recommend RK special formula O-Ring Chain Lube because it is a non-aerosol, specifically formulated to stick the chain, yet not attract excessive dirt.
Welcome to RK Excel America - FAQ

Regina:
If the chain is not too dirty, the operation of lubrication is normally sufficient to clean the chain.
When the accumulation of dirt on the chain (sand, mud, asphalt particles or other foreign materials) is excessive, the chain must be washed with a brush and kerosene. After washing, the chain has to be dried immediately with a jet of compressed air.
After off-road use, when the dirt built-up is heavy, wash the chain with a water jet, then dry it immediately with compressed air.
Avoid the use of steam, gasoline or solvents.
When cleaning O-Ring chains, avoid the use of hard brushes or other methods that could damage the rubber O-Rings (compressed air should be kept at 50 cm/2 ft distance minimum).
After washing, immediately lubricate the chain as explained in the next chapter.
http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_an...how_to03.shtml

Tsubaki:
To clean your Tsubaki chain, it is first necessary to raise the motorcycle on its centre stand with the engine off and the transmission in neutral. Then rotate the rear wheel of the motorcycle (using care to keep your fingers away from the sprockets and chain), spray a moisture displacement lubricant to one side of the chain. After 2 or 3 full revolutions, switch sides and repeat. In this manner you have floated the dirt off the chain and now you need to wipe off the chain with a clean cloth to remove the excess lubricant and dirt residue. Never use a flammable solvent such as gasoline, benzine or kerosene. Additionally, never use water, detergents, steam cleaner or a coarse brush as these damage the chain.
TSUBAKI RIDER Motor Chain

Diamond Chain:
O-ring chains may be cleaned externally by washing in kerosene. Do not use
any other cleaning agent or the O-rings may be damaged. When cleaning O-ring chain, clean only the external areas of the chain.
Do not attempt to force kerosene into the pin-bush cavity.
For chains which are still usable, soak them in SAE 40 or 50 automotive engine oil (without additives).
Flexing the chain in oil will assure greater penetration of lubricant. Inspect
and clean sprockets.
http://www.diamondchain.co.uk/usr_do...ycle_chain.pdf
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  #27  
Old 9 May 2011
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Great: be my guest. On a long trip, be sure to carry whatever branded products the manufacturer suggests you use.

I know grease is not being driven out from behind my seals because my chains last as long as yours (I'm being presumptuous here, but someone's got to go out on a limb). If spraying quart after quart of WD40 on my chains were removing grease, my chains would wear out rather quickly, just like non-o-ring chains do.

I don't even worry about rust, personally. I use the WD40 as a cleaner: spray liberally while rotating the wheel and all that abrasive sand falls off. Give it a quick wipe with a rag if I'm feeling thorough. Life is good. My chains go 15-20,000 miles without problems. Sprockets last twice that. Considering I'm very haphazard in even bothering to spray my chains clean, I think that's evidence I'm doing the right thing. At least, it seems to be working for me.

If I ran only on nice, clean pavement I might use a chain lube. Sadly, wherever I go the pavement is dirty--sometimes filthy. And for some reason I always seem to find sand, mud, clay and other stuff along the way. Like I said, when I used to use lubes, greases or wax my chains didn't last as long as they do now--and I was spending a lot more time and money trying to take care of them.

Your experience may vary. I don't mind that in the least. If you tell me that your chosen chain-care regime yields longer chain and sprocket wear than I'm getting, I'll gladly bow to your obviously superior knowledge and dedication to proper maintenance....but I'll keep doing what I'm doing, since it sure does seem to work.

I do get irritated periodically at reading silly stuff about how WD40 "rots" o-rings. Why do you suppose the RK instructions you quote above recommend using WD40? What do you think the Tsubaki instructions are telling you to use? Why would they do that? You really think they want you spraying your chains with something that causes rubber to rot and grease to run out on the ground? C'mon.

A good chain lubrication thread once every few months feels remarkably similar to belching after a big meal. Not as fattening, though.

Safe journeys!

Mark
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  #28  
Old 9 May 2011
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It's really stupid for anyone to use anything sticky on a chain. It's just common sense. You just turn it into grinding paste. Never use the marketed chain lube sprays. AFAIK they're all sticky.

Basically the function of this lubing is always going to be a contentious issue. To me it's a case of lubing the rings to keep the grease inside the pins. Rubber dries out so doing this is key. I ride mostly in a dusty, muddy and sandy areas in Oz her including in the beach which gets a lot of salt spray and water on it. So keeping the rings lubed is key. What I do is in order to keep the grease in the pins. Key to this is trying to keep it as clean as possible. So no sticky shit at all. To me the only way to do this is to lube is with a non sticky oil tube lube. I've been using ATF which here you can get everywhere including in the supermarket. It doesn't stick and doesn't make a mess beyond what any chain would make. I can wipe mud off it with a rag and some turps and put some more on. Just drip some on with a camping hand wash bottle and an old tooth brush. On a big trip I'll be using engine oil to save me having to bring an extra fluid. I apply it after every ride in the evening. This way it has plenty of time to do it's thing and leave a nice shine on the rings for the next day's ride.

We all have our own little things we do, but for me I'm convinced this works. The first trip I've used the spray stuff and the chain had to be replaced halfway by the time I got to Kazakhstan. The second time the chain lasted the whole trip (18k km), survived shipping and fumigation in Oz and heaps of dusty trips and is still on there now. Don't know how often it go adjusted because I've gone through a couple of sets of tyres. But I can't remember more than once. YMMV but I reckon chain oilers are a waste of money and time and are just lazy. They won't survive proper off roading but with non-sticky fluids could work, but a chain needs cleaning every now and again. A little wipe with a rag is usually enough with non-sticky fluids.
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  #29  
Old 9 May 2011
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oilage

No Bruce you're not the only fan mate!
You can turn them down when you need to and up when you want.
Use them as a sort of "over lube" system to fling off the dust and sand that sticks to the oil before it turns to grinding paste but, they are a real marmite thing to folks!
Used them since the late 80's on and off and although I have had probs have always gone back to them for some reason?
You can get extra reservoirs for them so setting them on a high flow for dusty conditions isn't so much of a drain on the meager res of the main unit.
Each to their own though!
I do like the sound of the ATF, used to use old engine oil myself.
Always used to set the feed tube up on the front sprocket though on off roaders, opposite to the maunf recommendations.
Although, a tooth brush and WD40 (never had a prob with that either) on the chain works for me too.
Have fun.
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  #30  
Old 9 May 2011
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Originally Posted by markharf View Post
G
A good chain lubrication thread once every few months feels remarkably similar to belching after a big meal. Not as fattening, though.

Safe journeys!

Mark
Doesn't it just

I've got nothing against WD40, I've got tons of the stuff.. Love it !! I don't think it rots 0-rings either. My chains get eaten my miles before the rings get a chance to rot... Maybe its different for the "leisure" riders who spray their chains with it and put the bike away until the next Touratech meeting. Their chains have to survive ten years before they get 10,000 miles on them.

Either way... I suck at chain maintenance. I'm too busy sipping a cold with my feet up when I should be checking my chain. In reality, who really rides 200 miles and then gets down in the hot sun to clean their chain.

I'd rather replace the chain and sprockets twice as often if it means I don't have to fettle my chain every night with a box full of cleaning products...

I keep it adjusted and leave the scott oiler to do it's magic
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