Still starting problems

[goodwoodweirdo]

Hi guys
Still having problems starting the TS185 ! its from 79.

I've got good compression and spark, there's plenty of fuel getting into the carb, maybe too much. If I kick it over there is excess coming from the overflow pipe on the bottom of the carb. The only way to start the thing is to remove the plug spray in the easy start refit it and kick it over, then it start and runs very well. A little blue smoke when cold but this soon goes.

The air side is all new, filter and rubber blocks, gasket sealant between engine and carb. I've stripped and cleaned the carb, it all looked good. I'm thinking its the jets either scratched when cleaned or warn. Does anyone know where I can buy parts for the Mikuni VM2955 29mm carb ?? my local Suzuki dealer tells me they're no longer available. Or a good second hand carb !

Maybe adjustment ! would this stop it starting ? but enable good running once started ?

Is it at all possible to retro fit an electric start from another bike ? if so which bike and what parts are needed ?


Thanks again in advance,

Matt

"If you can't see the people for the crowds, then you have no business traveling" Ted Simon

[Nigel Marx]

Firstly, there is no way to fit an electric start without re-engineering the motor. Excess fuel out the overflow is not a good sign. It may be that the float level is too high, have you changed it by bending the tab? Generally speaking, the brass tab on the float that pushes the needle valve shut should be flat in line with the rest of the brass float holder (does that make sense?)The only way to make sure it to measure the distance away from the carb body when the float is closeing the needle valve to the centre of the floats. I don't have the specified distance here with me, but I can get that from manual which is at home if you need it. I think this is best done by someone who has some experience with carbs. If the float is lifting too high before shutting off the fuel flow, there will be too much fule in the carb, causing it to run rich. This will usually mean it will start easier from cold, which is not what you are experiencing, however.
After you get it to start with easy start (we have a brand here in NZ from Australia called "Start You Bastard"!), does it start again ok? I.e. will it start when it is warm? If it does start OK once warmed up, then it would seem that at least the choke enriching circuit is still blocked. I have found by far the best carb cleaner to be the one you buy from a Yamaha dealer with their own brand. I learnt this from a friend, Craig Faith, who has a Yamaha dealership that specialises in restoring old Yamahas for collectors as well as selling new ones. He does dozens of old Yamahas every year, some of which have been sitting for 20 years or more. If you can get some of this stuff, DON'T follow the instructions on the label which say to add it to the fuel and run the motor. The best way is to dilute the cleaner 1:1 with water, put it in a can or old saucepan, immerse the dismantled carb and simmer (not boil) for 15-20 minutes. Rinse the carb parts with water well and blow out with compressed air if you can, otherwise wash with methylated spirits (wood alcohol). Don't throw away the fluid after you have finished. It can be reused many many times. Mine has just been used for at least the tenth time this weekend to clean up the inside and outside of a set of carbs off a 1972 Honda 500/4 that had not run for 6 years. They look like new inside and out and worked perfectly afterwards. The cleaner does not touch any rubber parts.

As far as parts go, I think your dealer can't be bothered looking as the TS185ER is still a current model. I bought mine new recently. If you want, I can source new parts and can probably get you a good second hand carb, set it up on my bike to make sure it is OK, and send it to you. Let me know about the starting after the bike is warm, and I may be able to help with any further diagnosis of the problem. Hope this helps.
Kind regards.

Nigel in NZ

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--"How can I be lost if I don't care where I am?"--

[goodwoodweirdo]

Many thanks for the reply, I’m very sure the float tab is bent – I’ll correct it as per the Haynes manual.

So just to recap my bike is from ’79 it’s a 185TS ‘B’

The bike doesn’t start with choke in / out, push start and 10 minutes of kicking over ! Period – nothing. A good dose of “start you bastard” (easy start but I prefer the NZ name). I would say around 5 second squirt, in the cylinder and on the second kick its spluttering + throttle into life. Once running, it runs well and pulls well. If you stall or turn the engine off then you have 30 seconds to restart. Any longer and you need to SYB to get going. That’s engine hot / cold etc …. It’s the same.

I’ve cleaned the carb out and it all looks ok, I’m just remembering back to your comment of damage to the jets, this is possible. I’ll need a new gasket if I dismantle it again.

As mentioned, I’ve renewed the air side of the carb and everything looks OK on the motor side, also have good compression and spark. Also if I kick the engine over I get a wet petrol smelling spark plug. So its certainly a mixing / combustion problem. The PO did rebuild the motor and I don’t know if there are any special valves that would cause this problem. I do have a little air leak around the exhaust but was told once the air / exhaust gets to here it too late anyway!!

These little bike carbs are almost identical to the SU’s on my mini and healey.

If you can find a second hand carb and set it up for me, this would be much appreciated. I have no idea on shipping costs / parts and your time. You can email directly if you would prefer mattehw.mason@skynet.be.

This is the only thing stopping me from enjoying my bike !!

Are there any dealers in Europe selling rebuild kits ?

Thanks Matt

[jcarlin123]

Goodwoodweirdo, I feel your pain!!! The symptoms you are describing are almost identical to those that I'm currently facing. I've had my ts185 for about a year and things have been getting progressively worse-it's now at the stage yours appears to be at. I've checked the stator coils and the charging, headlight and ignition/pulsar coils all have the correct resistances. There's a spark at the plug but it is pretty dismal. When I checked the primary and secondary coil resistances, primary was all good, but the secondary coil's resistance didn't measure on the mulitmeter. Just a thought, but maybe the spark is weaker than it should be and so it relies on the heat of the motor to ignite the mixture properly - after the motor cools a bit (you mentioned that it had about 30 seconds to restart after stalling; i'll second that) the spark is not hot enough to restart. Adding more fuel directly to the carb (or in your case through the spark plug hole) richens it greatly making it easier to start. I've had a carb rebuild and motor rebuild (again, dito on the 130psi) with little results. Raising the jet needle-clip, leaning the midrange mixture, allows for the bike to be more responsive. But the carb appears to be in good condition so I wouldn't expect to have to change the stock settings to get it to start. NigelMarx (ts185 King), any ideas?

[Nigel Marx]

It's the really small one beside the main jet (drop the carby's pants in situ if you want). You will need a very small flat-head screw driver to get it out, and then of a blast of compressed air, though the jet and up the carb.

Weak spark is a very bad sign however. The electronic ignitions on these poke out a very fat blue spark, if all is well.

I'd say you need to find a runner somewhere you can pull and swap the various electrical parts from. I'd start with the engine coils, and then the primary (spark) coil, and then the CDI module. Check the earths, especially around the plug coil, CDI AND kill switch/key.

And of course, it could still be crank seals! The simple bush mechanic way to test those is to pull the barrel off and fill the crankcase carefully with fuel. Don't overfill, and watch to see if the level drops, or you find fuel dripping out the side of the motor. That tell you the seals are really buggered. Sometime they can still be a bit leaky and not drip fuel, so it's not always going to help. Another sign is the motor will pick up and run/die/run/die as you fiddle the choke on and off. This puts extra fuel in to help match the air getting into the crankcase around the faulty seal.

My vote is electrics, but.


Regards

Nigel in NZ

[jcarlin123]

Just an update on my current situation which will hopefully be of some use to you...

I bought a new needle jet, jet needle and main jet sealing washer today and installed them on my carburettor. Kicked the motor over for ten minutes to no avail. I also bought a new ignition coild and after swapping the old coil with the new one, the old girl started to life on the first kick. Rode it up the street with stock carbie settings and it didn't hesitate in the slightest throughout the throttle range.

Just a note, I too had a smokey machine and replaced both crank seals which eliminated the excessive smoke but didn't fix the running problems. However, excessive oil will have the same effect as a weak spark as it will be harder to ignite and will foul plugs quicker. As Nigel said, the spark should be a clean blue one that jumps between the gap cleanly. If all else electrical checks out (ie, stator coil resistances and spark advance) then your coil may prove to be the culprit.

Best of luck goodwoodweirdo! I hope you manage to sort it out (it'll be worth it when you do).

Good luck, John.