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  #1  
Old 28 Jun 2004
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TS185 Questions

Hello i'm new to this forum. I stumbled across it when I was looking for info on TS185’s. It was very interesting to read about Nigel Marx planning to ride NZ to UK on 1 of these things. Has that happened???

Well i’m 15 and have been passed (off loaded) a 1978 TS185 and a 1982 TS185. I have mixed and matched the bikes to create a goer. I have used the ’82 frame offcourse and TF185 bottom end and a TS185 top end which has recently been bored out. I have a couple of questions that I would like you to answer if you could.

My first is what is the difference between the TS185 and the TF185 it seem that they have the same engine so I was thinking frames???? Or am I completely off???

My second is the front suspension is a little soft I was thinking to increase the dampening because I thing the spring is in still a half a working order. How would I do this??? I have noticed the bolt at the bottom of the shocks but what does that do??? I was also thinking of putting thicker oil but how would I do that??? On the ’78 there are 2 LITTLE screws which I would guess you would drain the oil but no on the ’82. How can I improve my suspension (without buying new 1’s)???

And finally are there any simple power gains I can do to the bike???

Thank you for any info, answers or talk you can provide me!!!!

Thanks
Dan


[This message has been edited by TS Boy (edited 28 June 2004).]
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  #2  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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No idea about the TF, sorry!

BUT on the other stuff

Quote:
<font face="" size="2">I was also thinking of putting thicker oil but how would I do that??? On the ’78 there are 2 LITTLE screws which I would guess you would drain the oil but no on the ’82.</font>
The LITTLE screws are indeed the drains. The Japanese discovered they could save money by not putting the drain screws in on later bikes... So you have to pull the forks and turn them upside down to drain.

Generally you would use the standard fork oil with the standard spring, perhaps bumping it by 2 1/2 to 5 max. E.g. if standard is 10W go to 12.5W or 15. (mix bottles of 10 and 15 to get 12.5)

You'll have to do a web search to find better springs, could be difficult. Try Progressive Suspension.

The stock springs aren't that bad when new. I raced a '72 TS185 in 72/73 with stock springs and they were pretty good for the time. Be sure it really is too soft - it's not too soft until it bottoms regularly! After a street bike ALL off-road bikes seem soft due to the longer travel suspension.

Ride it as is, it's a great bike for what it is. When you really NEED better, then buy a late model dirt bike, which will be MUCH better. Trying to modify the TS/TF to be as good as a cheap well-used 1990 or later real dirt bike is hopeless and ridiculously expensive.

They're super-reliable, almost impossible to break in stock or slightly modified form.

As for power, again it's good as is. You can clean up the ports - ONLY by someone who REALLY KNOWS what they're doing - and add a good expansion chamber, and that's really about it that's worthwhile. You might get super lucky and find a high performance head from Webco or a few others that made them in the 70's. There was a 175cc race kit available from Suzuki in the 70's, but I doubt you'll find anything now. And it wasn't good for trail riding, only MX.

Nigel hasn't left yet, it's still in the planning stages, but he's pretty committed!

Best of luck with the bike, and note that my suggestion is to spend more time riding it than messing with it!

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  #3  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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Thanks for the information, the springs should be alright for what i do with it (not the best jumper).

Quote:

Best of luck with the bike, and note that my suggestion is to spend more time riding it than messing with it!
I agree im losing valuable riding time right now wating for parts, so if i play aound with springs that just a lose.

this would have to be the first time the bike has had troubles. the speedo says 30,000kms and it would have been disconected for just more than a couple of years.

What type of expansion chamber were you thinging of, a modern one or 1 of like a DT175MX?? What power gain would this produce??? Is it really worth it???

The bike is still great, its better then not having a bike at all and i can keep up with me mates (beat them sometimes)

Anyway anymore info that you could provide on the bike would be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by TS Boy (edited 29 June 2004).]
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  #4  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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Just ask a specific question and we'll do what we can.

"anymore info that you could provide on the bike " is too general! I could write a book with that.

See if you can get a manual for it from your Suzuki dealer, some worthwhile tidbits in it, like how to set the oil pump correctly, and all the various settings and capacities.

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  #5  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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Start writing jks Sorry.

I mite just do that, get a manual. Is there anythin wrong with pre mix (40:1) over the oil injection??? what tpye of pipe were u thinking of, is it worth while??? ]

thanks again
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  #6  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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You CAN NOT use premix only on a TS185 unless it has been much modified internally. And even the factory racekit didn't do that.

The TS and all Suzukis of that era used a pump to pump oil direct to the crank bearings AND to the intake in very specific ratios. The crank bearings will not be adequately lubed if you only use premix.

Any good quality 2-stroke oil will work fine. Set the pump correctly, and use straight gas in the tank. Simple and extremely reliable, and one of the reasons the Suzukis of that era had excellent crank reliability and general engine life compared to others.

Suzuki was so committed to the system that even the factory 500 GP racer they gave me in 71 still had the pump.

The problem with a pipe is getting the right one. We used to use Bassani, but I'm not even sure they're still in business. It's worthwhile for racing, questionable for anything else. Too noisy. Oh yeah, don't take the baffle out of your stock pipe, despite what you may think it will run slower. Just make sure it's good and clean. Burn it thoroughly with a propane torch. (similar to an oxy-acetylene welding setup, if that doesn't translate! The oxy-acetylene torch will also work well.

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  #7  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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For the suspention you probably need new springs, valves and fluid. I am not sure on that bike, but most modern bikes you take the front forkes off and pour the oil out the top.You need new seals as well.It might be easier just to get new shocks depending on the size, price etc. Look up race tech for new springs and other questions. They have US and European operations.

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  #8  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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Well thats probably y i have nothin left of my conrod lol . I will have to put the pump in again i think. Well the pump be set to the rite fuel/oil ratio??? If not how and how easy is it to tune?? Is it simply checking the colour of the spark and smoke produced???

I dont really have the money john they will be alrite.

I dont think i will invest in the pipe, no need. I have talkin the baffel out but only to see if it would help since ive had it apart so while ive got it out ill give it a scrub (I dont have and Oxy welder).

I am EXTREMELY greatful for all the help and advice u have given me, thank-you!!!

[This message has been edited by TS Boy (edited 29 June 2004).]
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  #9  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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yup, that would be why

And you're welcome!

The pump is set to a very specific position in relation to the carburetor opening. The manual will reveal all.

As I recall - and I could be wrong - it's been 30 years! since I last played with one - it was full open on the throttle/twist grip and there was a mark on the pump body that was supposed to align with a mark on the arm that the pump cable attaches to. Adjust the oil pump cable till it aligns. DO check with a Suzuki dealer though!

Do not try to check by spark and smoke - please!

Different oils and different levels of baffle cleanliness and spark plug cleanliness etc all vary the smoke. And if you can tell you have too much oil on the lug it's WAY over oiling. And you can tell it's not getting enough oil because it seizes solid and you destroy the engine long before an amateur could read the plug correctly.

Go by the book - it's dead easy and foolproof (short of removing the pump or cable

Racers were often set with the pump wired on full and that's it. no cable. BUT they were mostly only ridden with the throttle in two positions - full on and off, little in-between running, so no problem. For trail riding you want the pump set right.

A little advice - those bikes work VERY well box stock. Even my super duper whiz bang racer was only lightly modified. Some fork tweaks, better rear shocks, mild porting and a pipe, better cooling head, aluminum handlbars, bendy plastic fenders, larger plastic tank, steel toothed footpegs, and completely stripped of all street equipment except a minimal head and taillight to pass ISDT regs was about it. Gold medal every outing, so it worked well, and I was running in the 250 class.

KISS principle rules.

have fun and good night!

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  #10  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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Good Onya mate! The TS is a hellova bike. I have had several and some TF185s too. The only difference between the TF and the TS other than the frames and other bolt on parts is the top end; porting and carb. The TF is designed for more low-end torque even than the TS which has a heap anyway. I'm pretty sure the gearbox has the same ratios but the final ratio is different to lower the over gearing on the TF. And Grant is right... DON'T remove the pump.. it does a very good job. If it's an early TS motor set the pump as per Grant's instructions. To set up the later TS oil pump, remove the brass plug on the side of the carb body. This lets you see the slide move up and down. There is a little intendation, almost a hole in the side of the slide. When it lines up with the middle on the hole, the mark on the lever on the oil pump should line up with the corresponding mark on the pump body.. it sounds hard but it is easy if you have two people. If you pull the fork legs off and remove the top cap to drain the oil, beware the jumping spring! Take the spring out and pump the slider up and down to force the old oil out. Put a little clean ordinary oil in to act as a rinse and pump again before you put the good expensive fork oil in. Even some kerosine or diesel would do if you make sure you get it all out. If you need a little preload, a small (1-2cm piece of light pipe on top of the spring will reduce the sag in the front when you get your weight on. An expansion chamber is a bit hit or miss if you don't match it with some porting AND re-jetting the carb and you seriously run the risk of over-heating and seizing. Use synthetic two-smoke oil if you can afford it, it will give you a bit more power and better oiling qualities. Any more questions, feel free to email directly or post here.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ

--"Have you hugged your bike today?"--

[This message has been edited by Nigel Marx (edited 29 June 2004).]
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  #11  
Old 29 Jun 2004
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Thank-you again for the help!!!

Im goin to just leave the shocks they still hold the frame off the wheel lol. With regards to the two smoke oil i should use, is that a fully synthetic oil??? I heard something about it would affect a none racing bike. Not sure.
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  #12  
Old 30 Jun 2004
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Plain old inexpensive 2-stroke oil, nothing fancy required. Such things hadn't been invented when the bike was designed, so it would probably spit the dummy if you gave it good stuff.

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Seek, and ye shall find.

------------------------

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  #13  
Old 2 Jul 2004
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We still have a DS185 since early 1980's. They are a great bike as Grant said for what they are.

I installed Boyeson reeds for extra performance back then but stayed with the exhaust which is still too noisy for my liking today.

The forks actually have an allen bolt at the base of them, you have to take the wheel off to see it.

It is here that when you undo them the fork oil will drain and the fork tube will be released from the housing.
As Grant says, removing the forks and turing them over is an easy way to drain oil if you don;t have to change seals etc.

Again use the oil injection system. Suzuki used roller bearings and directly injected oil on them, and that's why their engines of that era were so bulletproof.
Quote:
Originally posted by TS Boy:
Hello i'm new to this forum. I stumbled across it when I was looking for info on TS185’s. It was very interesting to read about Nigel Marx planning to ride NZ to UK on 1 of these things. Has that happened???

Well i’m 15 and have been passed (off loaded) a 1978 TS185 and a 1982 TS185. I have mixed and matched the bikes to create a goer. I have used the ’82 frame offcourse and TF185 bottom end and a TS185 top end which has recently been bored out. I have a couple of questions that I would like you to answer if you could.

My first is what is the difference between the TS185 and the TF185 it seem that they have the same engine so I was thinking frames???? Or am I completely off???

My second is the front suspension is a little soft I was thinking to increase the dampening because I thing the spring is in still a half a working order. How would I do this??? I have noticed the bolt at the bottom of the shocks but what does that do??? I was also thinking of putting thicker oil but how would I do that??? On the ’78 there are 2 LITTLE screws which I would guess you would drain the oil but no on the ’82. How can I improve my suspension (without buying new 1’s)???

And finally are there any simple power gains I can do to the bike???

Thank you for any info, answers or talk you can provide me!!!!

Thanks
Dan


[This message has been edited by TS Boy (edited 28 June 2004).]
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  #14  
Old 7 Jul 2004
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Ive finaly got the old beast going again and its better then ever How do i know if the oil pump is working proply??? there is no smoke at all. I went for a ride today and lost two things the idle screw which i replaced with a stick lol and the muffler fell off. i think it is going better with out it on. it seems to have a stronger powerband which has dramiticly improved from what it was before the new bearings seals and conrod kit. would these new things improve the power this much or was is it a change of timing because when i put the coil back in i couldnt see where it used to go.
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  #15  
Old 11 Jul 2004
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Quote:
Ive finaly got the old beast going again and its better then ever How do i know if the oil pump is working proply??? there is no smoke at all.
If everything is clean it won't smoke much if at all. That's the beauty of it. You can make sure the pump works by watching the lines closely to see if oil is moving along. If you can't tell, disconnect one line at the pump and drip out a few drops of oil, then reconnect. This will introduce a bubble which should be easy to spot as it moves along. To make it quicker, pull on the oil pump cable with the revs up a little. Should be obvious.

Get the idle screw and it's spring replaced asap, or at least make very sure the hole is plugged - the stick could allow air in the carb which will make it run lean and fry the engine.

It shouldn't run better with the muffler off - it should absolutely be better with it, unless it's throughly plugged up. See above re burning baffle.

NOTE: More noise does NOT equal more power despite what you THINK is happening.

New bearings and seals should make it run MUCH better!

Coil? Which coil? The timing is set with a timing light - borrow one or rent one and check it's right, very important. Once set it should never need setting again. Mark the stator plate inside the flywheel so you can put it back together next time in the same spot, although it should always be checked with a timing light to ensure it's right.

If you're getting the idea we're trying to get you to do things "right" you'd be correct. It's amazing how well a bike works when it's stock and "right" compared to a bodge job.

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Grant Johnson

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------------------------

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[This message has been edited by Grant Johnson (edited 11 July 2004).]
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