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  #16  
Old 26 Sep 2007
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Post Just replaced crank seals

Just finished fitting engine to my TS185 last night and it's a different bike. The excessive blue smoke is gone and it goes well. I got my crankcase seals from Janet's on ebay (UK) for about $23 delivered. I got a complete gasket set for $19 delivered from a fellow in Brunei. Made good use of the manual whilst pulling down the engine. My crankcase gasket was in perfect condition which only leaves the R/H crank seal as the culprit.

Travsta, my TF185 is a smoker and has been for 18 months. Even though it is smokey, it still runs and starts well. I know its using crankcase oil and the seals are shot. Just thinking that you may have an exciter coil problem because of the above. It depends on how much oil your bike is using. My TF produces a large cloud of smoke when I take off but eases off when I'm at a constant speed. I have a spare stator assy if you would like me to send you one. Just send me a private message with your details. I can also include some tech data on how to do the job.

Last edited by alfy12; 26 Sep 2007 at 07:01.
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  #17  
Old 8 Jan 2008
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Apologies to everyone for the lack of updates lately. I haven't been able to get up to my property in a while however i managed to get up there over new years and was able to bring the bike home with me so i can get some serious work done on it.

Unfortunately the bike is not running well at all. I kicked it over last week and it ran horribly. The bike really bogged down in second gear and than i sat there with it idling and all of a sudden it died and i could no longer start it again. It even back fired when i tried to kick it over again so im not sure what that was about? Maybe that was due to spraying some "start ya bastard" in it?

How much are stator assy worth? I dont really know much about the coils in these bikes so i may have to do some research on that. I will also have to look around for a manual for the bike as well.

Thanks
Travis
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  #18  
Old 11 Jan 2008
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Sorry to hear about your problems, did you try the other plug? There are three coils on the stator plate I damaged one the ignition one a few months back a new one cost me about $35 (US) here in Mexico. Actually I had a very strange experience with my own bike about a month ago when I was recalibrating the oil pump I couldn't get the marks toline up by adjusting the cable to the pump alone I had to adjust the throttle cable too. This is not the way
to do it but the carb also has throttle stop screw so
I reasoned I could use that to make minor adjustments
after. Well when I started the bike the idle speed
was way too fast at about 5000rpm and I couldn't slow
it down not even with the carb stop screw. I was
messing around with it and as the bike got warmer and
I took the choke off the revs got higher and higher
until eventually they went right up into the the red
line at 10,000 rpm off course I immediately turned off
the ignition, guess what it didn't stop just carried
on at 10,000rpm so I hit the Engine cut out button, no
effect the engine carried on at 10,000+rpm, turned off
the fuel no effect understandable due to fuel in the
pipe then I pulled the HT lead off the plug AND IT
STILL CARRIED ON AT 10,000 rpm Can you believe that, I
was there with a motorcycle and I couldn't shut off
the engine even with no bloody spark. Finally I put
the choke on and luckily it flooded and cut out. The
only explanation I can come up with for this behavior
is that the there was so much fuel/air going into the
combustion chamber that is was igniting due to
compression like a diesel. Still it's weird as with a
diesel the fuel air mixture is injected at the precise
time. Has anybody else every experienced something like this.
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  #19  
Old 13 Jan 2008
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Yeah i did try the other plug engmex but did not have any success...

That does sound like a weird problem you had. I must say i have experienced a similar problem to this however it was due to the choke. The bike revved extremely high with the choke on and u could not kill it with the kill switch. But as soon as the choke was turned off the bike lowered its revs.

Well i have begun the process of elimination with my bike. Over the weekend i checked the compression and got 130psi so that is fine. I also checked the oil/fuel calibration and that was perfect. The lines matched up perfectly with the notch in the carb. So from what you guys have said i believe it must be a coil problem or the crank seal problem (or both). Alfy do you still have the spare stator assy?

Thanks
Travis
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  #20  
Old 23 Jan 2008
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Hi Travsta. One thing to check, especially if you have had a back-fire, is the woodruff key that goes in the slot in the end of the crankshaft. It locks the fly-wheel and crank together. If this shears off, then the timing will be completely to hell and will change if the flywheel starts to spin freely. It's happened to me a couple of times. Are you getting any spark? If a crank seal has gone, often the motor will run better with some fiddling of the choke. The buggered crank seal will let enough air in to make the mixture too low, but the choke will make up for it. Another easy test is to take the top off the motor (barrel etc) and fill up the crankcase with petrol (gas). If there is a leaking seal, usually the fuel level will drop slowly (taking into account evaporation) and may even drip out from the left side of the motor. If the right side seal is gone, it will tend to suck heaps of oil out of the gearbox and smoke like a bastard. 130psi is very good for a two-smoke so that's not your problem. After that, it will be a case of swapping electrical components until it comes right. I have never had a coil or a CDI unit fail on any of my TS/TFs but I'm sure it can happen. I would go for the engine coils first.

engmex, I have seen exactly what you describe happen several times. It's usually described as "Going Diesel" but it's not actually really that, as you suggested. With a two-stroke, if the throttle stays open enough, AND the revs get high enough, then the flame and heat from the previous combustion can ignite the next intake charge. My guess it you may have had the throttle cable outer sitting on the edge of the adjuster on the top of the carb, instead of actually inside. This will hold the throttle slide about half open. It's very easy to do, if you are playing around with the cables. Both times I have seen it happen, the motor was stopped by dropping the bike into gear (not a pretty sound, hearing the gears mesh at those engine revs!!) and being stalled, but your idea of choking it to death is a much better one. I'm surprised that you could not get the calibration marks to line up. There is usually lots of lee-way to get that right. If you had the throttle cable incorrectly seated, that may have been the cause? Also, I assume you know about the hole in the side of the carb body that the index mark on the slide lines up with? Some Suzuki models, the oil pump marks line up at full throttle, but not the TS185.

I hope some of this helps. If you want, PM me for more information.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ
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  #21  
Old 24 Jan 2008
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Hi Nigel, Ill have to check the woodruff key over the weekend. I just got a couple of new spark plugs for the bike yesterday so ill test for a good spark over the weekend as well.

Thanks heaps for your help!
Travis
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  #22  
Old 24 Jan 2008
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High speed suzuki

Thanks for the discussion on two stroke suzuki's. Brings back memories of working in a Suzuki shop when TS185's were the machine to have. Also the X6 250 suzuki road bike. I have had several rev uncontrollably while up on a work bench with the key and kill switch turned off. I stopped one by pulling loose the carb intake boot and stuffing a rag in the intake. The best one was a RM125 dirt bike that had a missing kickstarter so I was push starting it in the crowded parking lot. The throttle was stuck wide open and there wasn't any kill switch. luckily I held onto one hand grip as the bike wheelied away and it fell on it's side and spun in cirlcles at 10,000+ rpm till it ran out of gas. Every two stroke that I have owned will smoke on startup and then not be too noticeable after a few miles run down the road. The GT 750 suzuki's I have owned will fog the whole road when opened up after putting around town. There is a reason extra plug holders were a popular option on these bikes.
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  #23  
Old 22 Mar 2008
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Hello all,

Well I'm in the process of taking the bike apart and checking all the things that you have mentioned. I haven't been able to get the flywheel off yet. It seems to be stuck really well. I have removed the main bolt and have tried using a flywheel puller but i keep shearing the center bolt that should push it out. Does anyone have any hints on removing a stuck flywheel? I can see the woodruff key after removing the flywheel bolt and it still looks good.

I managed to track down a repair manual for the ts185 and it had some figures in there about the stator coils. I was able to measure the coils without removing the flywheel. The exciter coil (black/red wire)measures 240 ohms and the pulser coil measures 200 ohms. The manual states that the exciter coil should be approx 220 ohms and the pulser coil (red/white wire) should be approx 75 ohms. So does that mean i need a new pulser coil? I was under the impression that if a coil breaks down there would be either 0 or infinite resistance?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm determined to get this bike working well and I'm learning a lot along the way.

Thanks
Travis
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  #24  
Old 22 Mar 2008
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Thumbs up

Hi Travis. Good to see you are sticking with the old girl.
Stuck fly-wheels are a problem but I have never let one beat me yet. I use the combined hammer-and-puller technique! Wind up the puller bolt until it's quite firm, and then give the top of that bolt a sharp rap with a hammer. Give it another half turn and hit it again. Keep repeating that. This will usually crack the joint between the shaft and wheel.

Coils are odd beasts, and yes, you are right about the open circuit-closed circuit fault measurements. For a meter to measure resistance, it has to put a small amount of current through the circuit. In a coil, this will produce a magnetic field introducing reluctance and affecting the reading over a fairly short period of time. That's why the reading will change, especially if there are lots of turns in the coil winding. Probe, read and get out quick. I can't tell you for sure if 200ohms on the pulser coil is enough to be out of spec, but my gut tells me no.

Don't feel sorry about asking questions. For me, learning all this stuff over the years is only really worth while, if you can pass it on.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ
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  #25  
Old 23 Mar 2008
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Thanks for your reply! Well ill give the flywheel another try today and hopefully it comes off. Then again if your gut feeling says that the pulser coil is ok then i may not need to remove it at all.

But now im really confused. I thought the pulser coil might be the problem as the bike is running really rough (coughing and sputtering) but if its not that im not sure what could be the problem? I have measured the ignition coil to compare with the specs in the manual and that seems fine. I guess it may be the crank seals letting air in which is causing it to run so rough?

Also is there any trick in removing the rear axle? I have taken off both the bolts and removed the brake lever and pole which stops the brake from spinning with the wheel but i still can seem to pull the axle through? The frame will not let me slide the wheel off the back as it is enclosed in so the only way i can see to remove the wheel is to take the axle out. I must be missing something cause its just not budging.

Thanks
Travis
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  #26  
Old 23 Mar 2008
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Smile More thoughts...

If it's a crank seal, and the motor will still run at all, like yours, then ride it until it's warm and then tweak the choke. That will put more fuel into the motor to compensate for the extra air leaking into the crankcase.

With the setup on the TS, the choke is of the "all on or all off" type. With a small leak, the choke open will quickly load up the motor with too much fuel and the improvement will be for but a short while. With a big leak, the motor will pick up and run better for longer until the motor again gets loaded with fuel. If it's a really big leak, the motor will ONLY run with the choke on, or not at all.

If it's not a leak, then opening the choke on a warm engine will make it run worse.

If you can't get the flywheel off easily, then that's a pretty good sign that it's not the woodruff key. If the flywheel was loose and spinning in the crank, then it would pull off without much effort.

Remember that the electrics on the TS185ER are the same as on the TF185 Mudbug, which every second farmer in NZ used to ride. I'm sure there are about a zillion of them in Aussie, so include that info in your search for electrical parts, if it gets to that.

Stick with it mate, they are a fun bike, and usually very very reliable. They will take more abuse than almost anything else out there.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ
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  #27  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Well i have put the bike all back together and kicked her over. She started first kick which i wasn't expecting. She actually runs pretty good so maybe a clean of all the contacts in the electrics is what it needed. However it still blows a lot of smoke. When i play with the choke it tends to stuff things up. The bike runs well with the choke off (lever in the down position) but when i start to pull it up the bike tends to run rougher so im guessing i do not have an air leak. I changed the transmission oil and went for a bit of a ride around the back yard.

Soon i will begin the task of changing the crank seal which hopefully should get rid of the excess smoke however i will wait until i get a Haynes manual before doing this.

Thanks everyone for their help. Ill keep you all informed when i begin the crank seal change.

Cheers
Travis
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  #28  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Hi Travis. Lever down is choke on. Sounds like a seal to me.

Regards

Nigel
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  #29  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Is it really...?

Sorry i probably should have checked that out first. I just assumed lever down was choke off. Well it sounds like both seals are gone then.

Thanks
Travis
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  #30  
Old 25 Mar 2008
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Yeah, lever down, pivots and lifts the plunger at the other end to open the enrichment circuit. Check that is case you have a non-standard carb.

Cheers.

Nigel in NZ
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