Carnet de passage

[Fred23]

Hi Im Fred and new here. Me and a friend are planning to drive from a'dam to Mali next month.
We are planning to leave the car in Mali so i think that it means that I can't get a carnet de passage from the ADAC. Now i've read something about an escort on the border of Mauri and Senegal (Rosso) , where you have to pay 200 euro for a escort to the other side of the country. Does that mean that you can do this without any kind of carnet de passage and what about carnet de passages for Mauritanië and Mali??

[craigcc]

Avoid Rosso at all costs! This is a border which is full of hassle and 'fees'.

Senegal insist on the carnet. I read about people getting these three day passes, but from what I've seen down there, it is not always straightforward and I've never tried to get one. I met a German guy at the Senegal border at Diama two years ago who had been held there for more than a day because he didn't have a carnet and customs didn't want to issue a three day pass.

Anyway, if you're going to Mali, why go to Senegal? Go east at Nouakchott and drive to Mali via Kiffa and Ayoun on generally good roads.

Mauritania used to do local temporary carnets at the north road border for about 10 euro (motorcycle). A month ago, they demanded a proper carnet from me, which I had. So I don't know if the local arrangement is still available.

Likewise, last month, when I left Senegal, the Mali customs at Diboli asked for my Carnet, though I hear that it is not necessary to have one.

My feeling is that if you avoid Senegal, you should be able to make it to Mali without a Carnet, but as I always travel with one (it makes life generally easier at borders), I'm not the best person to comment on this.

Craig

[Fred23]

Hey Craig thanks for your reply. We chose to take the route to Mali through Senegal because we've read some "scary" stories about the route Nouackchott - Ayoun (Belgian family murdered on the side of the road). Also our goverment advices, on their internet site you should not take that route. Surely we're interested in stories from people who have actually been there. Maybe it is safe...? And do you know anything about that escort?

[craigcc]

It would not be wise of me to say that you'll have no problems, but security has stepped up on that road. I have friends who recently went down to Mali via Kiffa and Ayoun who reported that safety wasn't an issue, but many more police and army checkpoints led to some low level hassle and bureaucracy. Overall, they had a good trip though.

We should hope that the killings before Christmas were one-off for that area. If media reports are to be believed from the region, it seems that the killers were caught.

There's been a lot said about terror groups, but while in Senegal recently, I heard that the killers may well have been drug smugglers who were disturbed by the people who were killed. This theory may be supported by the fact that the killers escaped south to Senegal and then onto Bissau, which is seeing a rising tide of cocaine trade at the moment. If they were Islamic terrorists from the north, one would expect them to try and melt back into bandit country in the very far North and east of Mauri on the border of /northern Mali/Algeria. But this is just a personal theory, I'm not an authority on these matters.

My journeys take me down to Senegal, Mali from the west, south to Bissau etc, so I've not travelled the east road from Nouakchott, though I hear that it's an excellent route.

As always, if you do go, keep an eye on news reports and gather intellegence as you travel. Be prepared to change plans. The chances of problems are low, I would travel it myself - but it would be irresponsible to say that any route is completely safe. Conditions change all the time.

If you do go to Senegal, a carnet will probably be required, unless you have some good luck and obtain the 3 day pass. Also, the route to Mali via Senegal is to drive to Rosso, turn right just after the second petrol station, where a soldier sits on the corner, then ride 110km down the piste to Diama Dam, where the Senegal border is relaxed and almost hassle free. Then take the north road on the Senegal River route from there and drive down to Kidira, where there's an easy crossing into Mali, no hassle and there should be no fees. (well, none if you have a carnet anyway)

However, if you sell your vehicle, you may be restricted to the Mauri eastern route to get to Mali. If so, you may find it useful to travel with others who are going that way.

Regards

Craig

[Fred23]

Hey Craig

Thanks for your reply, its really nice that people help you out on the internet gathering information. Its definitely my plan to sell the car there. Problably Mali or if this doesnt work little bit further up, maybe Burkina Faso. But it will be a problem if you have a Laisser Passe stamp in your passport when leaving the country. Do you know anything about what the deal is on the border of Mali, do you get a stamp there? Or Burkina Faso. With other words, whats de best place to sell your car without getting problems? I also want to ask you the following questions...

- Its cost us 40 euro extra a visa when you arrange it here in the Netherlands. What do you think? Is it easy to get one on the border (visa for Mauri and Mali)

- How many km is it to Bamako, roundabout?

- What does fuel costs in West-Afrika?

[craigcc]

Hi,

Mauritanian visa is not so easily available these days it seems. We had to get our last ones from the French Consulate in London. They could only give us an air entry visa, but this didn't cause a problem when we entered Mauri by road.

However, if you think you can make it through in three days, you can get a three day transit visa on the border for 10 Euro. You can get it extended in Nouakchott.

I hear that it is possible to get the Mali visa on the border, but I hear reports that this can involve some hassle for some people. I got my last one in Brussels. An easy process and about 20-25 Euro.

I used my Carnet for Mali, so I don't know what you do without one. Hopefully someone can answer this; I don't believe that a Carnet is necessary for Mali

Regarding fuel costs, Chris Scott has a thread running on this at the moment on HU. To be honest I don't remember how much I paid for petrol in Kayes. We were only in Mali for a few days on our last trip.

How many KMs to Bamako? To be honest I don't know how many if you use the Eastern route through Mauri via Ayoun. We went to Mali via Senegal.

Regards

Craig

[annick]

Hallo Fred,
Wij vertrekken ook in april,zijn van plan tot in Mali te reizen en terug.We hebben geen carnet de passage,dus we zouden niet via Senegal gaan.Als je Mali binnengaat via Kiffa naar Kayes en je laat je paspoort afstempelen aan een politiepost zouden ze geen laisser passer vragen .Ga dan wel niet tot in Timbuctu want daar vragen ze hem wel.
Goede reis en misschien komen we elkaar wel tegen!

[noel di pietro]

Although the info is 2 year old, when we went to Timbuctu noboby asked for any LP or CdP! You need to report to the Tourist Police but we even skipped that conveniently. It is not so strickt. If you want to have an easy ride to Bamako, take the Ayoun - Nioro border crossing. that seems to be all tar now. The Kayes border route is still pretty rough roads and subject to weather influences.

I would skip Senegal too because there is so much top quality stuff to see and do in Mali that it would be a waste of time to go Senegal at all.

Bon Voyage,

Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

[detnol]

Hello Fred,
we moved from Burkina Faso to Mali 2,5 years ago, just bought an offical laissez passer at the border (5.000 f) for our 18 year old car. Car did not get stamped in our passport. After that we got our car officially imported in Mali - normally you should tell this at the border, we didn't to avoid custom problems and escorts.... for a few cfa's extra this got sorted out at the customs in Bamako.
Since you will have a laissez passer, Timbouctou as well should not be a problem either.

Our Dutch website: detnol - Home
English detnol - Overlanders

[Sophie-Bart]

Just back from 3 weeks Mauritania, the 'official rumour' about the senegal older-than-5year-ban/scam is that this rule is dropped last week!
Although things are never sure in Africa and maybe some border official wants to prospone this rule for it's own benefit for a while, it should be possible to 'normal' (read; getting lasserpasser without carnet or escort) enter Senegal from Mauri-borders as it has always been coming from Mali.

Other news, it is possible (at the moment) to get an extention for your 3day transit visa (border Morrocco > Mauritania) in Nouadhibou at the policestation. So there is no real need to get your visa upfront in London or to drive from Nouadhibou straight to Nouackchott.

cheers

[Travelbug]

Hi,

we drove without any pre-arranged visa or a carnet from Germany to Bamako, Mali in less than 2 weeks and we sold our car there at about 10% above the German price.

We entered Mali through Ayoun-al-Atrous / Nioro du Sahel without problems and only got a Laissez-passer for the vehicle. This paper together with the number plates, you can throw away. The buyer will take care of the import taxes.

The same procedure would be possible in Burkina and Niger, to my knowledge.

If you have the time, I would highly recommend to travel via Timbuktu and the Dogon Country, go past Gorom-Gorom Market to Niamey. Dogon is a place not to be missed. The Northern Route through Burkina is a little rough just before the border at Tera, Niger. The rest, even all the way from Germany, is doable in a 2WD.

Regards,

[craigcc]

In my experience, Senegal asks for carnets even for brand new motorcycles. I've been in and out of Senegal several times using a total of six different border crossing places and bikes less than six months old. Always the same, no carnet, no entry.

'Official rumours' are moveable feasts, but if the rules are changing, this will be brilliant. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

Craig

Originally Posted by Sophie-Bart

Just back from 3 weeks Mauritania, the 'official rumour' about the senegal older-than-5year-ban/scam is that this rule is dropped last week!
Although things are never sure in Africa and maybe some border official wants to prospone this rule for it's own benefit for a while, it should be possible to 'normal' (read; getting lasserpasser without carnet or escort) enter Senegal from Mauri-borders as it has always been coming from Mali.

Other news, it is possible (at the moment) to get an extention for your 3day transit visa (border Morrocco > Mauritania) in Nouadhibou at the policestation. So there is no real need to get your visa upfront in London or to drive from Nouadhibou straight to Nouackchott.

cheers