I agree AU$750 is a rip off for a piece of paper, but my question is how much does it cost without a carnet to enter countries.

Bundubasher, you mention TIP - do you have a rough cost for this? If I use all 25 carnet pages the average cost per country is AU$30 / US$25 / GBP15. I'd be interested to have a comparison.

For some reason a carnet issued in Aus (I'm travelling with a 4x4) for Egypt is 200% of the value of the vehicle. I have no idea why it's such a difference compared to a UK carnet but other countries are also at different rates, not just Egypt.

From my hazy memory I have found 3rd party insurance (the TIP) to be around 50 usd a pop, so a carnet is really only effective if you are doing a span of countries.

What makes the difference is that it was a legal requirement for us to get our Zim reg'd truck into Kenya - however once we had it, and the COMESA yellow card insurance, border crossings became relatively easy.

However my experience is only of southern and eastern africa were the carnet is for 150% of thevehicles value - I've always been put off Egypt by the high carnet so if you can do it cheaper go for it.

Lets start a list:

With no carnet, here are the customs costs/experiences for bringing in a vehicle:

Free:
Morocco - free and efficient - can have in country 6 months out of the last 12 months.
Mali (they sometimes want up to 10 euro's, but the paper is free and mentions no payment)
Burkina Faso - free and easy when I crossed
Guinuea - techincally free, but depends how you present yourself I think.

Payment (official/unofficial):
Mauritania - usually 10 Euro's (unofficial)

Come on the rest of you, I have managed that on the day I am moving out of my house! ;-)

I have crossed africa -i mean crossed- from top to bottom a few times, being in every major country in africa other than somalia and ethiopy and never ever I needed a carnet other than in egypt.

the rest of the countries you can enter without a carnet. of course there are people that -after spending hundreds and putting their house on the line for the carnet- they will very much tell people how witty they were and how usefull and critical the carnet was.



you can travel africa all around without it. people who get carnets are simply people misled -ussually due to posts like the one originating this thread- that keep the whole ball of the carnet rolling .

you don't need a carnet. I very much hope that those people that tell the opposite are aware that they are ruining adventures and trips before they start , by misleading about the carnet. you do not need a carnet in Africa/

-of course there are people who like to do everything by the book .the kind of people that carry 2 fire extinguisher in a car and paper toilet seat covers.a "ned flanders" attitude that is very very bad in Africa. for the rest of us people used to cross borders , we can do perfectly without the carnet , using all that money in something more usefull .

javier carrion.
btw. in 3 days I am Landing in brazzaville -the bike is parked there- and travelling eastwards DRC , Zambia , malawi , tanzania , etc.. Anyone around ?

By 4x4 or bike? Bikes seem to get away with alot more than trucks. However all this macho posturing doesn't do anyone any good -different strokes for different folks :)

I have been asked to show my fire extinguisher at a road block at least once and, if it came to it, I'd rather have an extinguisher to hand than watching the back of my truck (where I cook) and all my kit go up in smoke!

I do however see your point - alot of westerners over prepare and try to cover every eventuality - you don't really pick up the African laissez-faire attitude to life and travel until you've got a bit of experience under your belt...and that, my friend, is the fun bit.

Carnet... sure
 

That must have been because you did not have the carnet (the second time!!)


We have travelled down the west and up the east side, with carnet and we found the border crossing surprisingly easy. Hardly any bribes, no difficulty but sometimes time consuming. On both sides the Carnet is like a magical document, like Bundabasher said. It works miracles and it is your argument against crooked cops about your vehicle when they claim that it does not comply with local rules. We have used the Carnet many times for this with the argument "it has been admitted by your customs...see !! so it is accepted as it is and you have no right to fine me because of the roof rack, because of the bull bar, because it is two tone coloured, because of the air horn, because of the sandladders on the side, etc.....

Maybe you can get around without it but I don't recommend to do that. There will be plenty of other challenges waiting for you in Africa.

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

On the one hand the carnet is an expensive anacronism but on the other hand it has probably reduced overall levels of bribery fees for termporarily importing vehicles, as far as overlanding goes.

I suspect you can quite easily get across africa without one and I feel that the internet now makes it so much easier to "know how to do things" that, where appropriate, a carnet should be seen as a 'convenience' tool not a 'requirement' and the forum should recognise that (as one post rather forcefully tried to elucidate).

Carnet
 

Good for you Javier...... but how much does a carnet cost? Yes, about Euro 200, WOW! The bond is returned afterward, no harm done, and like I am saying, we used the Carnet more frequently in the interior country bluffing off cops than on the borders themselves!

Your normative insulting opinion about people who choose to travel with Carnet is realy not appropriate, they are only advising from their perspective. Also note that you are not consistent in your "advise" and argument because you say you don't need a Carnet in Africa except for Egypt...well 80% of all overlanders travel via Egypt!!

Cheers
Noel

Everyone who is saying they have done xyz without a carnet- i'm assuming they mean also without paying a bond at the border to temporarily import and guarantee they won't sell their vehicle while in country without notifying the authorities? I thought that was the point of the carnet, my money will be held via the RAC in the UK, rather than forking out money to a random border guard on entry and hoping they will know when and where I'm leaving and have the money waiting? Ready to be paid to the next random border guard!
I'm sure a carnet from your home country is not a requirement anywhere, its just easier than paying the local man on the spot surely? And if he wants 20US in his pocket rather than doing things by his rulebook then a risk worth taking for some?

Hi
We traveled july-aug maroc-senegal without any carnet. In fact we didn´t have any documents of the car. The car was even registred on a person who wasn´t with us on the trip. The car was from 1990 and we had no problem entering and selling the car in Senegal. Yes of course it was some husteling at borders but thats normal even if you have the required documents. It was a blessing we had stashed up with french porn magazines. Othervise we might not have been able to cross the borders :)

I'm sure all French women following in your wake will be very appreciative of you efforts with the porn mags. :thumbdown:

This makes for some very interesting reading.

Im planning west route of Africa at end 2010.

According to the RAC here in the UK it would appear that one IS required, and then reading on the South African AA website it says a carnet is compulsory ONLY in Egypt, Uganda, Kenya. (Not my route)

I've asked them for clarification, but it looks like I'm going to take the +-£1000
I would have spent on a Carnet and use it for any TIP's, "greased palms" etc and probably come out at the end with some money left over.

It does seem a case of "asking your barber if you need a haircut". The RAC will be inclined to say yes you do need one.

Gracias Javier,
you gave a lot of encouragement with your posts. Because of this carnet matter I canceled Africa completely before my travel, and now, because of problems shipping the bike and myself to South America, mainly because of little money and NO PLANING, only the carnet thingy was giving me doubts. I have some money to buy visas and petrol and bribe, but not for carnet.

Now the plan is to ride as far as possible to South Africa, sell the bike, if it still runs, and all the gear somewhere, and take a flight to S. America and travel hitchinking. If sb have any postive thoughts on selling the bike and taking a cheap flight, very welcome.

so .. the west coast route is essentially carnet-free. You can still use it -if you want- but It is not required .

Is it cost effective ? -Id say no. A carnet is around 250 Euros + bank costs -. In mosts customs people either pay or not . But that doesnt seem to be carnet-related. In one of those nasty borderpost (Chad's Bol , p.e ) everyone paid. People without a Carnet -me- paid for the passavant. People with the carnet -now becoming rarer - paid exactly the same for the stamps. It seems It doesnt make a difference.

Even now Egypt allows cars without a Carnet .So I really can't see a single reason to spend money on that outdated-pointless thing.

Also there is the issue that losing/abandoning the vehicle is a very *real* possibility in Africa . A Carnet thus doubles the risk , bringing no apparent benefit. If you get your car *and * your carnet stolen , then It would be a nightmare to recover your deposit.

Really can't see the point of reccomending a carnet -other than people having realized the pointlessness of it , still triying to convince themselves of the astuteness of the carnet thing- .

you will rarely see someone admitting "we paid 250 Euros + 5000 Deposit for a piece of paper that later on we realized is useless , as everyone elses crosses africa exactly the same without it"

It is not required , It is very seldom used , It costs a lot of money , It is a hassle to keep it safe at all times , and then , It is simply not needed .

So what is the point of getting it ?

Wow! That's great news - I'm in Mali, looking at buying a bike for travelling through Africa and the only thing holding me back was no-one here seemed to know about this 'carnet' thing!
So I don't hijack this thread if anyone can give some information on registering, insuring the bike in Mali and what documentation and paperwork I will need to get at the borders (without the carnet!) :) http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-in-mali-48498
Thanks for the help - great website! :thumbup1:

P.S. Egypt is one of the only places definitely NOT on my route...