Cape Town to Europe
 

Hello,

I am new to this forum, but just from what I have browsed I can see that people who post here know what they are talking about.

I posted on the thorn tree about a trip I am thinking of doing, but you guys have the expertise. I'll paste:


Fellow travellers, I need your advice. I have a gap in my studies coming up, lasting from November this year to September next year. I was thinking of getting a couple of motorbikes, and with a mate travel from Cape Town to Europe (either Sweden or France). The trip would probably start in January or a little later. I give myself six months, as I want to linger in some of the nice places we'll encounter.

So a few questions:

East or West?

What about safety? One of my main sources of funding, my parents, will not like that I go somewhere dangerous. I have been doing a bit of research, and it seems to me that it is possible to reduce risk. But then, there is the argument of the "theory of the survivor": you only hear about the ones that got through. Any thoughts on this? I am leaving it a bit vague, I know.

I would also like to know about the logistics of this trip. Tricky visas, the carnet, buying a motorcycle in SA (how cheap can I get?), anything else you know and I forgot to ask.

I know this is very long, but I would appreciate any help, not matter how small,

cheers
Albert

Hi, don't think crossing east-west is possible at the moment, but we're talking about Africa. It can all change quickly.
Check out
http://www.africa-overland.net/
for travelogs new and old.

Albert
This is indeed a good site to get all the info you need – most of the people here are genuine travelers and don’t just rant and rave about who’s bike is the best etc.

I’m planning a trip up the Eastern side in 2007. I’ve done almost exhaustive research on all possible routes and the reason why I decided on my route is the following:

Pros:
1. Less borders to cross on the East (bigger countries) thus saving money on crossings.
2. All the countries up to Kenya are friendly to South Africans and most don’t require visas.
3. There is a (relatively) good road all the way up to Cairo (with the exception of a few stretches in Ethiopia and Sudan)
4. Zanzibar and the Red Sea are on my route!

Cons:
1. Sudanese borders – I’m told that crossing into Sudan from Ethiopia and into Egypt from Sudan can be a nightmare.
2. Violence in Sudan (though the Northeastern parts are supposedly quiet)
3. Egypt can supposedly be a pain but it is doable if you persevere.

I spoke to a Sudanese guy who currently resides here in S.A. and he confirmed my opinions about the Sudan.

The West has too many unknowns for an n00b like myself – I have no desire to screw up on my first continental crossing! There may also be too much Sahara for my heavy bike and pillion on the Western routes.

I hope you get all the info you need – but not too much and spoil the surprises!
Cyril

Thank you Luke and Cyril,

I was thinking of going West originally, but after looking at the political state of things thought about going East instead. I have done a bit of research, bought the new bradt guide on Sudan, and asked people questions, and although it looks like a pain, it looks doable. But then I asked someone else his opinion, which I paste just below. This guy rode (bicycle) through Africa for three years not so long ago:
"
I recommend travelinng via Angola, DRC and/or Rep. of Congo, Gabon,
Cameroon, Nigeria or Tchad.
The route became more common and actually safe within the last three
years, since Sawimbi, the leader of the opposition got killed and Angola
became a choice of real alternative. Quite a few people now do travel this
itinerary and they all, incl. me , speak positive about. More
adventurous...However, some say, that they didn't like Angola. It was one of
my favourites , after Cameroon.
But from information I currently have, it doesnt consist of any risk
involving getting close to civil wars or unrest. But of course, countries
like Rep of Congo, DRC, Angola, Gabon and even Cameroon right now are more
volatile i terms of politics. However, even on short notice, you can stay
out of trouble.
The route via Central Africa( no, not CAR, this is really more risky) will
bring you into some pristine lands of REALLY untouched Africa, tribal people
like the pygmaes and game like gorillas and elephants, hippos ... beyond the
borders of nat. parks... which is hard to find in this way in East Africa.
In Central Africa you will to some point encounter soldiers, who will try to
rip you off at the borders. If you are not the kind of person , who is in
for a little fling of argument, this might totaly put you off. But nothing
to worry, they will soon leave you alone, as long as you stay firm, see also
my article.
Another off-turn for you might be the fact, that French and not English is
widely spoken in Central Africa, and Portugues in Angola, Spansih in
Equat.Guinee.

But , respectively, national parks are easier to get access to in East
Africa.

The danger in traveling East Africa is of a different gender:
There are waay more tourists, even or especially organised tourism, which
doesn't always spark good emotions among the Africans.
Muggings and violence against tourists or whites is a rather common thing on
the streets of Jo'burg, Nairobi, Lilongwe, Dar es Salam...
-Hey, Al , I don't know you, most likely you are fine! But just know how
many travelers already got mugged in East Adrica or lost all their
belongings is beyond any conception- me included in Zimbabwe 10 years ago!
"

Quite an extensive answer really, and one that goes against what I hear, but he may be right.

Luke, I have been looking at that site and found some good travelogues. By and large people don't have too many safety issues; the worst I read was someone driving past people with guns, passing them and hearing a gunshot. Don't know if it was at them. But what about general safety concern. How easy is it to get into trouble?

Cyril, you're right, the only way I'll get all the answers is by going, but I'll try to get as many as I can beforehand :-)

thanks again,

Albert

A German/Swiss couple passed thru Nigeria this past April. They came in thru Cameroon (Congo, Gabon previous to that) and said route was Ok. 2 weeks ago, they were in Ghana taking a rest before doing Bukina Faso, Mali and then across the Sahara to NA - Europe. Political unrest looks big from outside but from inside, you can have 20 people die in the next town and no ruffle in a town 10kms away. The German couple were in Togo during the elections- had to stay indoors for 2 days though.
Travelling by bike is inherently dangerous so best you can do is minimise the risk.
Like the person that replied you said, if you are not impatient and are ready to withstand some 5-10mins of argument per checkpost, you dont really have to part with money.
Bike is doable across Nigeria for now.
If you need an invite for a Nigerian visa and a place to stay, drop me a PM.

inyang, thanks for the offer. I might take you up on that.

So it seems like the West route is feasible. But which would you recommend: East or West? If you could tell me why that would be great.

I want to get a light, reliable, easy to work on bike for not too much. I was thinking of USD2000, but I don't have much of a clue of the South African market.

Also, I read that there were problems with carnets, SA, and Egypt. I am not rich enough to put up big money for a carnet. What can I do there?

thanks
Albert

Hi Albert,
Welcome to the HUBB. You'll find a lot of information on this website which will help you to find your answers.
Take a few days-or even weeks and browse through all the information which Grant and Susan have compiled, then trawl through the past postings and you'll find yourself heaps more informed (which will probably result in heaps more questions)
Also follow the links to other travellers websites (and perhaps buy some of their publications)to get an idea of what decisions they made and how those decisions influenced their trips.

Good luck and enjoy your researching.
Geoff

You need to do some more research and select a bike you are comfortable with (both riding and repairing). Sounds obvious but actually being on the road is not constantly as much fun as its pictured in books. My first trip by road (as a passenger in a commercial taxi) from Nigeria to Ghana, I lost half of my money at the Nigeria/Benin border to 'official' thiefs.
Check out the routes, see stories on this forum, check other sources and decide which way you want to go (you will bear all the problems when they come so its only right you have the pride of place in the decision making process).

Take care and wish you good planning & trip.

Thanks guys,

I followed Geoff's advice: I have been browsing this site and I bought Chris Scott's AMH. Excellent book, my hat off to Chris.

Inyang, for the moment I am thinking of going East. I don't know yet which bike I am going to buy, since that will be largely dictated by my budget (not big).

As Geoff said, I'd have more questions after doing more research, so here goes:

Chris Scott reckons that for a trip like this, it is better to get to know the bike for a while before hand. My problem is that I am in the US right now, and that I will be in Australia in July until sometime around November. Then, I'll be somewhere else (don't know where) until I hit South Africa in January/February. I don't have a bike back home (Oz).

Should I buy one in Oz or in SA? My budget is tight, but I know that I need to be prepared. Any websites I should be looking at for prices and all?

cheers,
Albert

Albert

There is a huge selection of dual-purpose bikes in almost any South African city or town. Unfortunately these types of bikes have become increasingly popular over the past few years and they are no longer the cheap scoots they used to be. (Africa Twins and 650 Thumpers are notoriously expensive)

Visit someone like www.mitaka.co.za for prices but bear in mind that while they are trustworthy, they are also expensive. Rather get a local to take you to the cheapest grey-importer. I would be happy to assist you if you decide to buy one in Cape Town.
Grey-imports are legal but the bikes receive no warranty from the manufacturer. The importer usually provides a 6month guarantee but you will be travelling and obviously unable to use it (use this excuse to get a further discount)

Check this thread again in a few days – I will contact my local AA branch and find out how hard it is for Aussies to get a Carnet and a bike registered in S.A.
I will also visit an importer of second-hand bikes (from Japan) and get prices (I will e-mail these to you). You can then decide if you want to bring your own bike or buy one here.

If I were you I’d like a few weeks on the bike before I attempt such a trip. Buying in Oz and shipping to S.A. would be wisest but the expense could be defeating.

Cyril

buying a bike as a kiwi in South africa was easy - just some paperwork required to become a registered vehicle owner, & used my guest house address and NZ drivers license.

Not sure, but are the carnet requirements different for South African registered bikes? If so then buying here could save a lot...
However the recent appreciation of the Rand has not really filtered through to bike prices..
Lance

A couple of thoughts....

1. SA bike prices are up to 20% more than equivalent prices in Oz. For example, a new KTM 640 in Oz is about A$14k but in SA will set you back 80k Rand, about A$16K. This extends to the used market as well.

2. I found the second hand market in Cape Town to be a little scarce for good value single cyclinder 600 cc overlanding bikes. Plenty of Yamaha R1s but not a great selection for overlanders, and I tried all the dealers, Cape Ads and Bike SA. You can find them, but it takes time....just make sure you check into a good hostel or hotel in the meantime! Try Ashanti in Cape Town if you like to drink.

3. Carnet on Aussie passport is no problem, although you will have to post 200% deposit if you enter Egypt. Just remember that you get to value the bike to determine the level of the deposit. Sudan carnet doesn't have any special requirements from the AA. All this is ok with address from hostel and Oz driver's licence.

4. To fund your deposit, you can use cash, credit card or guarantee. To avoid handing over US$20k, I had to get an Oz bank to guarantee an SA bank to guarantee the AA. Took six weeks of hastle while I was riding the garden route, but all worked in the end. I have previously posted details of the AA and banking contacts in this forum if you want further info.

Other than that, enjoy the ride!

Thank you everyone,

Cyril, thanks for the link and the tip. I'm looking forward to what you will find from the grey-importer. Thanks for offering to help me, I might take you up on that :-)

Lance, good to know that you didn't run in any problems. I was thinking of getting an international license. Do you know if they differentiate between bike and car licenses with them?

Matt, thanks for the price estimates. So SA is more expensive... If you were in my situation, with only a few months (maybe 1.5) in Oz before the African trip, would buying in Oz justify the hassle?
The carnet thing is good. I was a little worried about that. I think i'll try to arrange things with my bank and fingers crossed, with a SA bank before I leave.

Considering your budget, I would probably just buy in SA and save the hassle of trying to ship.

Just make sure you give yourself some time in SA to find the bike, do the paperwork and arrange a good weekend test ride to iron out any issues with the bike.

Thanks Matt, I think I'll buy something in SA.

As I research the trip more, I have new questions. Here are a few:

Sudan and visas -- the situation seems to be changing a lot. Where is the best place to get a visa for Sudan coming from the South? Are there any other visas I should be planning ahead for? I'd be travelling on an Australian passport (i do also have a French one)

I am an avid hiker. Any places I shouldn't miss on the East side of Africa?

Thanks,
Albert

Albert,

This is rather a long post....lucky I am not a lawyer who charges by the word.

I got my Sudanese visa in Kampala, Uganda in a couple of weeks for about $US30 (55,000 Ugandan Shillings). I have heard from others that Addis, which is the traditional place to get the visa, has become increasingly difficult and time consuming. Either way, I suggest you email a travel agent in Khartoum two or three weeks before you need the visa, so that they can arrange a letter of introduction and facilitate the process. I used the following guy and he was efficient, although he wanted to charge my US$75 for the privelege (he has never sent me details of the bill or how to pay him, so I have never actually had to pay this - please don't remind him!).

Amr Ali Aljundi
Director
Mafaza Traveling Services
P.O.Box 147
Khartoum 11111, Sudan
Tel: ++249-183-799-688
Fax: ++249-183-799-687
Mobile: ++2499-1230-4190
e-mail: amr@mafazats.com

I suspect that he can probably arrange for the visa to be collected in any embassy, so you could also do it in Nairobi / Addis if you are not going to Uganda.

No country has really presented any problems for visas on Aussie passports. I have briefly listed the East African countries below and whether you need them in advance or can get on the border.

SA - not necessary

Lesotho - not necessary

Swaziland - not necessary

Mozambique - embassy in SA (although I think South Africans can still get on the border)

Zimbabwe - border US$30

Zambia - free at the border if you get on the list from Jolly Boys backpackers in Livingstone, otherwise US$25

Botswana - not necessary

Malawi - not necessary

Tanzania - US$50 at the border

Kenya - US$50 at the border

Burundi - US$40 at the embassy, although I think it was only US$20 at the Tanzanian border

Rwanda - US$50 at embassy, although possibly available at the border

Uganda - US$30 at the border

Ethiopia - US$20 at embassy, don't know about border

Egypt - US$20 at embassy, don't know about the border

As to hiking, try a Kilimanjaro climb in Tanzania or gorilla trekking in Rwanda / Congo / Uganda. Both of these are expensive activities, otherwise there is good free hiking in most countries, it just depends on your preferences.

cheers

I did CT to Egypt and back to Ethiopia in 2004 on an old Tenere (cut short by accident and time and money and and and ..).
Give me a call in CT if you around and need any info. Always keen to help out prospective travellers.

Jim
0826859288

Jim,
Matt has given some good info above traveling on an aussie passport and i see you've done some traveling just last year. Any advise from you,doing it with a SA passport. I'm a SA in the UK at the mo and still scraping the guts together to do London - CT late next year. Where would i need what (on your route?)to get through as easy as possible.Any other advise (season wise, gear, food etc.) more than welcome. Must say bike prices looks pretty good over here.Thanks
Stef

One piece of advice. Although all the roads are generally passable despite the season on a Europe to CT trip (assuming you take the east coast route), try and avoid the wet season in east and central Africa. For Ethiopia it runs June - Sep, and Kenya/Taz/ Uga/Rwanda etc it runs March - mid June.

I have spent the last four months riding in the wet season, and although it is definately doable, it can get really annoying after a while.

[This message has been edited by Matt Roach (edited 18 July 2005).]

Macfisto

Ill try to answer your post here, but feel free to email me for more specific details.

An SA passport is just about the best one you can have for Africa, in general visas are cheaper, except Tanzania and Kenya, the bastards... I found being an African helpful for smoothing the way, paople could relate better to me than to Europeans who i think got hasseled more than me. Thats just an opinion of course...
I went CT Moz, Malawi, Tan, Uganda, Kenya Turkana route, Ethiop, Sudan, Egypt where I was not allowed because my carnet was invalid so i turned around and went back to Ethiop where an accident ended my trip. I really think this route is the best option for a first timer, Turkana area is best avoided unless you know yourself anf the bike really well, its an amazing place, but not for the faint at heart. You can usually choose between good roads and more interesting rough roads and you get to some of Africas finest. Sudan, depeding on the route can be hard riding too, but depends on where you go, its an amazing place, i loved it. Visa can be found in Addis, but takes time which is ok because addis is cool place to hang out after difficult months. I got Sudan visa in Pretoria in 2 days! I think i was very lucky. Moz gives visas at major borders to SA folk im told, but deffinately not at smaller nicer borders. Get it in Malawi, which is also a really cool place, look for road to .... shit cant remember name, green route on Mich map, turn off near Rhumpi down to lake. Superb. Hmm what else... ? Dont expect to find any spares anywhere, this said i fouund a nice tyre in Sudan for 20 dollars! Just dont count on it.
I went on an old 1985 34l Tenere, in my opinion this is the bike God rides when she travels. Germany is a good place to find em i hear.

Thats all
Jim

Hi

Suggest you contact Mark and Jason (2 South African's riding Africa Twins) via their website (http://www.2k5africa.co.za/index.html) - they are currently on their way down from London --> Cape Town. I'm not sure exactly where they are right now but I would expect around northern Tanzania. They should be in Cape Town within the next month or 2 and would have lots of first hand info for you which I'm sure they would happily divulge over a beer ir 2 in CT harbour.

Thanks folks

I know i could find about everything i need on this site but to hear from you okes is a bit quicker, as i have limited access to the internet.Not everybody out there owns a pc.Jim i might just send you a couple of mails, thanks for the offer, it'll take time though.
Happy biking ya'll!

Oh i just realised you doing N to S so Sudan visa best bought in Aswan Egypt. I got mine on way home for US100 in 3 days.... I really depends who you talk to at embassy, First i was told up to 3 weeks wait for confirmation from Khartoum, but i hassled them every day then met the right man who issued it the same day. Remember ferry to Wadi Halfa leaves once a week i think on a Monday (make sure) so you want to time your arrival at Aswan accordingly... I didnt and i really really dont dig Aswan. Also be prepared for some right SOB's at Aswan customs. ethiop visa is easy to get in Cairo, takes 2 days and costs US20 for SA citizens, US60 for Europeans,

Thanks made a note of that,will still figure out a route through europe, will obviously need visas for that 2

Aswan customs...tell me about it!

Just arrived on the ferry from Wadi Halfa and been told it will take four days to clear customs / traffic police and insurance. It seems insurance company decides to take an extended weekend for the Muslim holiday.

I am not wanting to start a full debate, but what a shithole is Wadi Halfa???? I have seen quite a few countries in my travels, and never come across a town that I hated more...any competitors for worst town in the world?