Warning: ticks in Europe
 

Just perusing the vaccinations section here and came across the heading "European tick borne Encephalitis". There is no effective treatment and this disease is usually FATAL. You can be vaccinated, however.

I just want to point out that there are in fact TWO different diseases spread by ticks and there is NO vaccination against the second disease, Lyme Boreliosis, which is a bacterial infection. This is far more common than encephalitis, but it can be treated with antibiotics.

So: when travelling in the danger zones make sure you are covered when walking in the forest and check your clothing for ticks regularly.

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Salut from Southern France, the bikers' paradise,

Peter.

[This message has been edited by beddhist (edited 20 February 2005).]

[This message has been edited by beddhist (edited 20 February 2005).]

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Lymes had made it to Europe. I got a case of it a few years back. I was lucky and cought it on time. If not caught early it can be debilitating or even fatal.



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John

two practical questions then! where are the danger zones/info on them? and apart from checking for ticks.... whats the treatment?

bob

Bob,

ticks are usually sitting on high grass (NOT on trees) in areas below 800m - so you are save in large regions of the black forest http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif

You can avoid them by not walking through grass, which means: Stay on paths, if you want avoid ticks at all costs.

However, immunisation against Encephalitis is advised only for persons who are regularly exposed to those risk, e.g. forest workers, children and hikers.

As Peter pointed out: there is no immunisation against borelliosis. If you have been biten by a tick, watch out for reddened skin and "weak" feeling. But since you do not necessarily notice a tick' s bite, you can also watch out for red spots if you generally feel weak.

(Please note that I am no doctor, just recalling what I have in memory about ticks)

Regards

Lars

[This message has been edited by Lars (edited 27 February 2005).]

Thanks Lars!

Just found maps:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/...5/article.html

Red color indicates high risk areas, yellow indicates medium risk.

Regards

Lars

[This message has been edited by Lars (edited 27 February 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Lars (edited 27 February 2005).]

hi,

as a frevent hiker i have lots of experiences with these F ticks. I had even one on the worst imaginable place you can come up with. :-) my tip: they useally find nice spots near warm body-ereas like under your arms and offcourse near your initimate parts..
there is also an antibiotic cream..but if you're not sure take the full treatment.

cheers and good luck ;-)
niels

Actually, as far as I know most of the Black Forest lies below 800m.

We've just been to the hospital for advice on vaccinations for our Asia trip. The doc was adamant: if we were to spend even one night in a risk zone we should be vaccinated.

More bad news: I just read that ticks are spreading, due to climate changes and changes in agriculture. And they transmit increasingly another 4 dangerous disease.

Prevention is the best cure: don't get bitten.

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Salut from Southern France, the bikers' paradise,

Peter.

lyme's disease can only be contracted if the tick is allowed to remain in the system for more than 8 hours. check your body often, use a tick repellent, if bitten, cover the beastie with lard, margarine, thick hand cream, butter, anything that will stop its "breathing" It will back out in about 1 minute at which time it is easily removed from the body with a tissue. no danger of its head remaining behind to cause secondary infection. no butter? the burning match will work, but heating the tine of a fork with a lighter is better. a tight point of a lit cigarette will also encourage the tick to let go. If traveling with an IRS agent it is best to remove the limb above the joint and cauterize the wound by laying the victim close to your red hot exhaust pipe.

2 pairs of socks followed by wearing nylon sport type tousers and long sleeved t shirt will aid in preventing ticks biting, also Detol or simaliar smelling (Savlon) dabbed about the body prevents may insects from liking you, including pets if you are taking any, in a dire situation where you are not covered up using mud spread on the parts of body exposed will prevent mozzys and other nastys from bitting you, no mud then if there is fine dust about spread that on your body, watch what the animal world does and its the same for humans, there are plants that can be used to ward off insects but I've forgotten most of it, typical aint it...

Smearing mud etc probably works great, but...

Tics get on you whenever they can, e.g. when you're squating to let go yesterdays bush meat etc. Now I don't consider it practical to smear mud on exposed bodyparts for these 5 vulnerable minutes.

I've found that burning the tick doesn't really work. The body becomes fragile which makes it impossible to remove the head.

what worked well for me is: take the skin between your fingers (so there's some slack), then pull and turn a quarter turn ccw.

Ah, and they're not only grass, the're in pine forest as well.

Just another suggestion to get a tick off your body, VASELINE suffocate the little ticker but never pull them off or you leave half of it in your nether regions.

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R.T.B.

Totally unscientific and non-first-hand advise:

A Marine buddy of mine told me a story that when he did his boot camp training they had to spend a couple of days out in swampy/foresty areas with ticks. The advise he got? "Wear a pair of panty hose under your uniform." This protects the "vitals" and from what I understand makes it hard for the little buggers to get a good grip and latch on. Above the waist is a different matter but I'm sure that they're easier to spot/remove on an arm or back. Can't vouch for the effectiveness of this but my buddy swears by it and claims to have been one of only 4 guys in his class to not have a single tick...all 4 followed the advise.

Plus, I'm sure getting a "control-top" pair will help you look more rugged and fit in your riding gear. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ElDirtyPaco (edited 06 April 2006).]

[This message has been edited by ElDirtyPaco (edited 06 April 2006).]

Sorry, but the advice I just got from my father (veterinarian) is that suffocating the tick is not recommended. As it dies it "vomits" and thereby gives the victim another big dose of whatever germs it may carry. Use tweezers to twist and turn it out carefully, without squeezing its body and without tearing off its head. Otherwise, seek medical assistance.

If you go to any pet shop in France you can get a pair of tools for removing ticks of various sizes for about a euro. They look like little plastic 'wrecking bars' you just slide the forked bit between the tick and skin and rotate it ccw. the tick just comes away. My cats often get them, although Frontline is supposed to prevent this happening.

Thanks. Seems like a good tip. Now what was the French word for tick again?

I first heard of these little blighters a few years ago when I picked up a

leaflet at a outdoor show. Their website is worth a visit

www.masta.org/tickalert

this is the only efective way of removing a tick.
vaseline and burning are something of an urban legend, it doesn't work
If you can't get hold of proper tick removers then tweezers will do, but the trick is to push the tweezers down the body of the tick, indenting the skin, before gripping so you hold as much of it as possible, to try and avoid snapping the head off. I wastold the anticlockwise trick by a special forces guy, but was recently told, in the emergency dept, that is also not really true, just pull gently!!
tics are particularly common in areas where sheep graze and have even made it over to england. limes disease is really rather nasty but as above can be treated with antibiotics. whilst applying a topical antibiotic cream may seem to be a good idea, straight on the infection site and all that the reality is rather different. antibiotics work by being absorbed into your body system, and this is best achieved by tablets. the take up fromtopical antibiotics is poor, the exception being drops for eyes and ears which are very effective.

For what it's worth
 

As stated you do not want to suffocate the tick, or burn them as some say to do. Anytime something dies, the muscles relax, so anything in the stomach or bladder will be released, possibly causing an infection. There are a number of tick "pliers" out there to remove them safely. The Deer tick is the one that carries Lyme disease and is extremely small, so more than likely you will not see it at all. But, as stated you will develop a rash and flu like symptoms.

Ixodes scapularis male

after reading all of that I'm sitting in my lounge, with an itch in my crutch.

So much for wanting to camp out for my next 10 day stint in 2 weeks.

I'm going to anyway, and I'm going to get my Tick shot now, before I go, cause you've all made me worry about it. But the last time I had a tick shot, I must have been 5 and today im 35. So where is all the fuss. I've even lived in Africa, I think it's all a bit of cod if you ask me.

Tick shot? Whassat?

I have had formerly-active friends disabled by Lyme arthritis, so I am confident this is something to take seriously. The good news is that most of us were *not* disabled, despite living, working and playing in the Lyme-infested New England woods during the era when not much was known about the disease, its treatment, or its effects.

When I'm back in that area during tick season, I do check myself routinely for ticks. My technique for removal consists of grabbing with fingernails, including a bit of skin, and yanking firmly; no squashing, no pinching, no counter-clockwise anything. Best, of course, if you get rid of them before they embed; they're slow to take up residence, so there's a good window of opportunity.

Happy camping to all!

Mark

Tick talk
 

Years ago after sleeping out in a sleeping bag in the forest of Germany just over the border from Basel ie the Black Forest, I got a tick in my groin. The doctor took it very seriously. She removed it with tweezers and impressed upon me the importance of coming back if I had headaches within next five days. It is not a joking matter. I'd been warned about same risk years before near Vienna, again in deciduous forest. It held on for dear life! Linzi.

Lyme's disease. tell-tale signs
 

One very clear sign of a bite from such a Lyme's disease vector is a red halo or ring around the bite. This usually develops in the next few days after the bite (which you may not have noticed).

The area around the bite may also be blueish, but the red ring should still be present with a Lyme's disease antigen exposure, and this is the give away.

NB This does not last long: only another couple of days. After that non-descript symptoms develop which can be hard to diagnose, especially if you are unaware that you were bitten by a tick in the first place.

So if you find an insect bite and what seems to be a red ring around it like a "bullseye" target type thing, go and see a doctor to get a blood test done. Treatment is about 1 month of antibiotics until blood parameters return to normal, but note that follow up can last 6 months with more blood tests to track your recovery.

In a nutshell, when travelling, it's a good idea to check yourself daily: not just for tick bites but just to know what general condition you are in, if you know what I mean...

The tick removing tool looks like this:


and should be available from pretty much any pet-shop or vets anywhere in the world there's ticks I'd guess. I've not had one, but my cats do get them, and it's very easy to use (on a wiggling, hissing, spitting cat) so I imagine it'd be even easier to use on a human.

We get lots of ticks in Denmark and this is how we remove them, especially off pets wo get lots of them.

You get ticks in ANY grass and not just long grass so be careful when camping.

If you get an itch, check it before scratching because it may not be a mozzie bite it could be a tick.

Steve

Amazing coincidence.
I got back from my Doctors surgery an hour ago with a leaflet about Tick-borne Encephalitis and saw this thread.

"1 in 100 patients will die from it"

"It is transmitted to humans via bites from an infected ixodes tick. Less commonly from drinking unpasturised milk from infected animals."

"Tick-borne Enceophalitis occurs in the far eastern part of the former USSR (my immediate concern) extending into China. It can also be found in European Russia, Austria, Hungary, the Balkans, Czech Republic, Slovakia ans Scandinavia where it is mainly a disease of the forest."

It seems it has to be a certain type of tick. It has to be infected. It has to be in an endemic area - and mainly a forest within it.

Vaccination is a course of 2 or 3 injections a month apart. In UK not NHS. Only from specialised travel medical centres. Cost £64

Tick-borne Encephalitis

I do a lot of mountain biking,and in the uk over the last few years mountain bikers have been getting bitten by ticks more often.I try and cover myself up to stop getting bitten,so far this approach has worked but if I do get bitten I've invested in the tick removers just like the ones in the earlier post.
They only cost a few pounds and arrived in a few days, have a look here www.tick-twister.com

Don't camp, use DEET and permethrin, get your shots, remove with tweezers

Chapter 4 - Tickborne Encephalitis - Yellow Book | CDC Travelers' Health

Travelers can reduce their risk of TBEV infection by avoiding exposure to woodland habitats in endemic countries during the spring and summer when ticks are active, and by avoiding unpasteurized dairy products. They can also protect themselves from tick bites by wearing clothing with long sleeves and taping trouser legs or tucking them into socks or shoes. Clothing and camping gear can be treated with products containing permethrin, which repels and kills ticks. Permethrin can be used in concert with products containing N,N-diethylmetatoluamide (DEET), which can be applied to clothing and exposed skinTravelers to tick-infested areas should also inspect their bodies and clothing daily for ticks and promptly remove them with tweezers or forceps.

No TBE vaccines are licensed or available in the United States. Two equivalent, safe, and effective inactivated TBE vaccines are available in Europe, in adult and pediatric formulations: FSME-IMMUN (Baxter Vaccine AG, Vienna, Austria) and Encepur (Chiron Vaccines, Marburg, Germany).

Because the primary tick vectors of TBEV in Europe and Asia are also the primary vectors of Lyme borreliosis and ehrlichiosis in those areas, persons vaccinated against TBEV should continue to take tick-bite precautions when in tick habitat.

This thread is following my every move!

After a gap of 2 years it crops up within an hour on the very day I enquired at my UK GP's surgery.

Yesterday I had the first vaccination jab for the TBE prior to my jaunt in Eastern Siberia this summer.

In UK it is not on NHS and BA Travel Centre wanted GBP64 for 2 injections. It was considerably cheaper in Russia where I was offered the option of a local Russian vaccine at 600 rouble or an Austrian one for 1000 rouble (12 and 20 GBP respectivley) for each injection. I chose Austrian and bought a second dose to do myself next month. I'll get the third on my ride back. Thats a good few beers en route paid for!

They said two injections should be 1 to 3 month apart with the second at least 2 weeks before entering a danger area. This gives a years immunity. A third injection 9 months after the first one boosts this to 3 years. Then one dose every 3 years maintains immunity.

The two charming Babushski Doctors were specialists in immunology and vaccination and said not only is TBE prevalent in Siberia, but also now occurs in Scandinavia, Germany, Holland, Austria, Greece and is spreading west and south. Being bitten by a tick does not mean it passes the infection to you - it has to be a certain type of tick and it has to be carrying the infection itself.

The past month is the worst year I've seen for ticks in southern Spain. Even though my dogs are protected, I'm pulling out 3-12 a day off each dog. I've tried all ways to remove them and the best way I've found is with a pair of tweezers. Get as close to the skin as you can and pull very very gently. Then put the ticks in water - no matter how much you stamp on them, they keep going. When the ticks have fed and are large (full of blood) take care not to squeeze the body. Also check for smaller ticks at the same site as once they start feeding, they usually start breeding at the same spot.

Tony,

Where in Russia did you get vaccinated? I'm travelling through Kazakhstan and Mongolia. After Baikal, I'll be riding and camping in the worst endemic areas up until Vladivostok. I had my first shot in London more than a month ago. It's time for the second but I couldn't find any shots in Greece or Turkey. I guess my best bet will be in Southern Russia.

Thanks.