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  #16  
Old 25 Nov 2009
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1/ if your vehicule is still there 5 days after its arrival in the port, you will be charged parking. Week ends are counted in those 5 days.

2/ Normally, they need to wait for you to open the container. We had 4 guys helping when we opened it.

Regarding insurance, this is better to have one prior to leaving the port, since there usually are police officers controling once you leave it. The two times i took a vehicule out over the 3 last years, i was not asked for insurance.

See you at thanksgiving party tomorrow evening
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  #17  
Old 26 Nov 2009
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Impuestos on port charges?

Hi. Just got back from another long day between the bank and the offices at the port! The boat has arrived and we are waiting for the discharge. Looking forward to that thanksgiving diner I tell you.

So far, estimates with the TRP (Port charges) indicate the following ($USD):
Cargo seguridad: $8
Lavado: $20 (this is new)
Barrido: $16 (this is new)
Devolucion: $20
Cargo manipuleo: $91
Tasas a las cargas: $18 (according on tonage)
Desconsolidado (incl. verificacion): $300!

TOTAL: $US473 + impuestos = $US573 (2176 pesos)

We may be charged an extra $180 according to where the container has to be moved back to the shipping cie. Waiting for confirmation.

There are new costs at the port, apparently since last month.

The weird thing is that everything has impuestos on it, making a total of $473 + impuestos =$573. I am not sure that as visitors we need to pay these impuestos and I haven't seen any in the costs described above by fellow travelers. Needs checking before paying tomorrow. Does anyone know?

We also need to get an insurance for the car before we leave the port. It appears you are sent to jail without it, and really it doesn't cost a fortune to get it for your peace of mind.

We hope to be able to drive off with Cruz tomorrow afternoon...
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  #18  
Old 26 Nov 2009
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Good luck, and happy diners...
Adventurous greetings,
Coen

p.s. hope to see you on the road somewhere
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  #19  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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A clarification

Cruz, it was great meeting you two and Bjorn. Welcome to Buenos Aires... Elisa and I really had a good time, sharing our experiences and hearing of yours. I especially like the Cambodia border stories of Bjorn, and the fact that Isa looks very much like a seductive spy.

As for the insurance comment, I suppose you added it to your last post because of my insistence that everyone buy vehicle/moto insurance in Argentina. I really did not mean to blow the circuit breaker at Romarios, but that often happens when I am trying to get my point across. No kidding, I have to be very gentle with computers and cash registers. I have a history of interrupting all things electronic, I don't understand it myself. It drives Elisa crazy.

Actually, if you have an accident with substantial property damage or personal injury then, you will go directly to jail if your insurace coverage cannot be verified by the police.

With insurance, your agent can intervene, maybe keep you out of jail and if you do go to jail, he/she can bail you out.

The police on the streets are not authorized to determine fault, so everyone without insurance goes to jail until the accident can be sorted out by a judge. This is a process that could take months!

At a police check you run the risk of having your vehicle/moto impounded, but it is doubtful you will go to jail, you will be fined and spend about 6 weeks trying to get your vehicle/moto returned.

I sent you a private message re Parana Insurance and the name of the agent, etc...

Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate
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  #20  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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Met Isabelle and John at the party here. Isabelle impressed most of the guests by her beauty and John by his positive attitude. Unusual first name for a guy from the Philippines.

Regarding VAT, you have to pay it on all services, like in France. If you check my detailed bill, you ll find out that VAT was added to the total amount.

Isabelle, don t, worry, there are tarentulas only in pet shops in Buenos Aires

See you on Monday with your war tank.
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  #21  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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Hi Cruz,

Nice to meet the two of you the other night! Just received a list from my receiving agent here in BA about what I've got to pay them. Same agent as "panhandle1300" were using for BA clearance when they shipped their bike from Africa.

Desconsolidation: US$181.50
Manejo Documentation: US$96.80
AGP (Tasas a las cargas): $7.26
Total: US$285.56

This is exactly the same price as Panhandle1300 had to pay for their bike. (Kev/Lorraine –*if you're reading this: How many cubic meters was your crate? (I used a BMW crate, which I know are all the same size no matter what bike – 2.58 cbm).

I'm reasonably happy with this. (I know that in Melbourne 'Desconsolidation' is US$110 per cbm, so with the prize above, Buenos Aires is about 40% cheaper than Melbourne).

Bjorn
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  #22  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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Costs update

Hi,

Thanks for a lovely evening with the expats of BA, & thanks for the comments! - my spyness has been revealed I'm afraid...!

We prayed to get Cruz today, but it will have to be Monday. Patience is required. Yet, we managed to get all paperwork done with the Terminal (TRP) and customs (EMBA).

Philippe is right, impuestos, which are taxes, 21% in this case, are indeed added to bills here (and do not appear separately, which is why we got confused). As foreigners and tourists in transit, you do not pay the extra taxes the locals do for permanent imports, but you do indeed pay the 21% tx - which you need to make sure is included in initial quotes/estimates the terminal gives you.

The process has so far taken three full days of presence, efforts and tos & fros to the bank, the port, within which different terminals and offices. This has happen before the boat arrived, but also after it arrived, as the container is not immediately available. We expect an extra day to finalize the process and open the container and drive off.
Throughout, we had discussions with various people, including the manager, personnel at the terminal and customs, and commercial and taxes department officers, in order to clarify the details of the process and the bill, and understand what we were paying for. This reduced the initial quotation by $200 nearly as we did not need one of the items they subscribed us to automatically.

For those who will follow, this is the way it goes for a 20' container (but please bear in mind rapid inflation and the addition of new costs to reflect this)

Costs with TRP Terminales Rio de la Plata:
Cargo seguridad: $10
Devolucion importacion: $24
Cargo manipuleo: $110
Tasas a las cargas (per tonage, in our case $22
Barrido de contenedor (for MSC shipping): $20
Lavado de contenedor (for MSC shipping): $24
Desconsolidado (new) is broken down into 2 (this is the $300 I initially wrote down, plus taxes):
Desconsolidado de contenedor: $182
Servicios adicionales al conslido/desconsolido: $182
TOTAL: US$573

We meet lovely people along the way, were offered coffee by the customs officers which whom we shared a few laughs and spent several hours discussing Argentinian cultural traditions and other matters.

The experience for us, without an agent, was enriching, required patience and time, and was indeed quite costly although within normal local prices thanks to some "soft arguing"- but we are sure it all vale la pena!

Good luck to all travellers arriving in Buenos Aires.
See you in Viedma in the next two weeks.

Isa (& John)
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  #23  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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Hi Bjorn,
Nice to see you too. Let us know how that Boca football match was...!
Amazing pics, u r a pro

NOTE for others:
Prices are cheaper for a motorcycle nayurally, especially when sharing container/crates.
Prices I listed down are for a car loaded inside a 20' container (and occupying the whole space). It thus need extra work, cargo manipuleo, bringing back the empty container, ect.
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  #24  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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Hi Isa/John,

The costs you wrote down above:
Which ones did you pay to your receiving agent? And which ones did you pay to the warehouse?
The first part of your "Desconsolidation" is exactly the same as what I've got to pay my agent. So it seems a fixed rate no matter of the container size.

Your "Servicios adicionales al conslido/desconsolido": Could it be that this is for bringing the container back, because of your car?

Bjorn
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  #25  
Old 27 Nov 2009
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Which ones did you pay to your receiving agent? Please read earlier in the thread costs to MSC Shipping, receiver (shipping costs different and obviously paid at port of origin)

And which ones did you pay to the warehouse? None for the moment, given 5 days to clear the container (the weekend is counted within those 5 days). Note that a lot of the paperwork needs to be done when the container has arrived and so takes some time.

The first part of your "Desconsolidation" is exactly the same as what I've got to pay my agent. So it seems a fixed rate no matter of the container size.
Your "Servicios adicionales al conslido/desconsolido": Could it be that this is for bringing the container back, because of your car?
The desconsolidacion is cut into two parts as I mentioned. It includes verificacion and proper desconsolidacion, plus some moving of the container indeed, incl bringing it back empty.
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  #26  
Old 28 Nov 2009
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I m awaiting the end of your "Adventure in the Argentine bureaucratic Jungle" and your total bill, to compare it with ours and ask explanations to Grimaldi.

Mafra already reported a lower offical price than the one we paid. This would be interesting to understand the additional costs Grimaldi has to bear in comparaison with your transporter to justify any important difference in local fees.

We were also surprised to hear from the local Grimaldi agency that it was fairly common for their company to ship unaccompanied vehicules without container, while in Europe, the official version is that this is an absolute no no for insurance reasons.

Thanks you all for that very cooperative thread, we might see clearer in that maze with every bit of information that is being reported.

I m still feeling stoopid i had to pay twice as much to get the motorcycle out of the harbor (0.3 km) than to actually ship it (12000 km)...or was i smart in Europe? All in all, a total shipping cost of 800 Euros seems still acceptable compared to other experiences, especially since it didnt require any effort on my side except bringing the bike to Antwerpen, nor abusive waiting.
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  #27  
Old 28 Nov 2009
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edited

Last edited by mafra; 10 Mar 2010 at 18:30.
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  #28  
Old 28 Nov 2009
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So :

- any idea where the 510 USD surcharge comes from with Grimaldi compared to other shippers with similar weight containers? Do they have additional costs that would explain the 60% surcharge?

- any idea why Grimaldi demands a 5000 USD cash warranty to let customers do the paperwork while others don t ?

These are the mysteries we are trying to understand here.

As i said, the process was painless, but does it justify paying double the price?
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  #29  
Old 28 Nov 2009
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edited

Last edited by mafra; 10 Mar 2010 at 18:27.
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  #30  
Old 29 Nov 2009
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Thanks for your posts, Mafra, but unfortunatly they failed to help us understand the reason of the surcharge by 60% by Grimaldi compared to other companies for a container with similar weight, since fees are calculates at 95% on container unit.

They don t explain us as well why Grimaldi asks for a warranty that nobody in his right mind would carry cash in Buenos Aires while others don t, forcing customers to take the services of an agent.

Cruz, since Mafra claims the warranty to be a new international rule, why didnt your shipping company demand it from you?

Last edited by Vorteks; 29 Nov 2009 at 15:37.
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