Brazil wants to seize our bikes

[SgtMarty]

Major problem. Our 4-month ride in South America might have come to a screeching halt.

We were totally screwed by the Federal Police when we entered Brazil from Uruguay. They stamped us in, gave us a paper and our bike documents back and told us we were clear to enter. We did that.

There was no customs office at the border itself, and we were directed to go to the Federal Police office. They are the ones who took our passports and bike documents and told us we were done. We even asked them if we needed anything else, and they said no.

Now, in Salvador, we find that they didn't do the paper for importing our bikes, and the paper they gave us was just a tourist enty form. We have been told by the customs people here that the bikes are now here illegally and will be seized when they see them. We learned all this at the airport cargo terminal when my buddy tried to arrange to ship his bike back home to the U.S. We had to get out of there before they got more interested.

We are working on a solution, but so far nothing is looking good. The U.S. Consulate was little help, although they put us in touch with the senior Customs official at the airport. He didn't sound hopeful, but I have to call him back again later today to see what he found out.

Worst case is we lose the bikes (and maybe all the gear on them). We might try riding back south to Uruguay (where we crossed into Brazil) and 'sneaking' out there. Once we've gone that far, we might as well go back to Buenos Aires and Don can ship his bike home from there. Getting out of Brazil isn't a guarantee, though.

We have seen border offices where the Immigration and Customs functions were in the same place, and that is what we thought had happened. In fact, that's what happened when we entered and exited Uruguay, so we had no other expectation. We are feeling pretty stupid now.

The Customs official we spoke with does admit that the police at the border made the mistake, but they don't care about addressing that.

We'll try the U.S. Embassy next, I suppose.

Carnivals starts tonight, too, so eveything shuts down for the next several days.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Riq]

What happens to the bikes if they are siezed. Are they auctioned off, sold or can you reclaim them for a nominal fine payment?

I know if it was my bike and I was sure I was losing it for good I would ensure that no one else would want it. I'm thinking long drop or left idling with the throttle flat out.

However this is just me and I do tend to get petty over this sort of thing.

Hope it all works out well for you.

Rick

[Margus]

I imagine how you feel. We would almost had been in the same situation when we entered Brazil from Iguazu (Argentina): they stamped the tourist papers and said we're good to go. Thankfully we insisted on importing the bike and went to the aduana. Only then it turned out the bike actually needs to have a separate temporary-import procedure. It took us 1-2 hours to go through i(because border official was new to this procedure and computer stuff), but we got the paper.

So ALWAYS double check your vehicle's temporary import paper - does it exist (it has to!) and if everything is correct.

We've had so many cases when the import papers are wrongly written - wrong nationality, faulty numbers etc. We've managed so far and learnt from our mistakes, have it correct in the first place.

Also a lot of border officials just forget to give some of your papers back from time-to-time, and in border bureaucracy hassle you tend to forget them yourself, finding it out later (a disaster, been there done that!).

If you decide to smuggle your bike out: don't do it through Chuy (Uruguay), there's migration and aduana in different locations 20 km apart, so it will be impossible to leave the country without anyone noticing (you will be stopped by the aduana anyway).

Personally I'd have someone with good portugese in hand (i.e. a local friend or a random guy who knows also good engish) and let him call back to the office where you entered the country and see what options there are: if they can post the correct papers to Salvador or you have to ride back to the border post. I'm sure the official who let you into the country w/o issuing TIP document will be a bit embarrased too about his mistake (that is, if you find THE right guy who did that via phone). It may work and it may not work, but I think it is worth trying.

In any case, you can ride around w/o TIP (temporary import) document - not a single police stopped us in over 9000km/30 day visit of Brazil. So you should be able to go with "clean hands" here-and-there to sort those paperwork things out.

Good luck and keep us posted, Margus

[albert crutcher]

Marty you may find the best way is to ask about the possibility of paying an 'on the spot fine' This is the nice way to ask if they,re going to take a little bribe to fix your problem.I,ve learnt with 13 years experience that I,ve never met a cop who wouldn,t look the other way for a small fee.
Try to forget your past and ask for the 'multa de immediato' or what ever it is in Portugese.
Al thedogsbollocks

[PatOnTrip]

If you really want to leave Brazil unoticed just go to Paraguay. There are no Brazilian custom office when you enter to Paraguay at Cuidad del Este.

Patrick

[The Big J]

Originally Posted by PatOnTrip

If you really want to leave Brazil unoticed just go to Paraguay. There are no Brazilian custom office when you enter to Paraguay at Cuidad del Este.

Patrick

that is a long way to go from Salvador but if you conclude that's what you need to do, Patrick is correct. No Brazilian customs, they only have them entering Brazil.

Very tricky situation, good luck

[Stretcher Monkey]

I spent 2 months riding in Brazil and no one ever asked for the importation document. Sure, when I entered from Uruguay, they made a big fuss about it and that I should be sure to hand it in to the proper authorities on leaving. When exiting for VZ, I had to go to great lengths to find anyone interested.

I think you should just carry on, you've come a long way and things are a little more free 'n easy in Northern Brazil. Wear a smile at all times and I'm sure it will be okay. You will always have the option of paying that "fine". Whatever happens you won't lose your gear. Oh, and I wouldn't even bother with the embassy. Ted Magnum and his chums had a similar experience last year

[Mojorising]

Hey Sarge,

Sorry to hear about all the troubles. I am in Florianapoli & have met some local folk who do have a few bikes here. Some of them are from the US which they keep running back to ROU & back all the time. They speak real good english so I will be able to communicate the problem with them. I am meeting them on Sunday so will ask them their advise. If you guys are anywhere near Floripa then do give me a shout for a few s, or you an stay with me if you guys need.

Did you cross the border from Chuy in ROU? I crossed that border a few weeks back & did get a 2 page temporary importation document. (DECLARACAO SIMPLIFICADA DE IMPORTACAO) Let me know what border you crossed from? Will try my best to help if I can.

Cheers Mojo

[SgtMarty]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

We had entered Brazil at Jaguarao. No Customs office that we saw. I'm sure I could get out there with no problem.

For now? Maybe good news. We'll see.

The local U.S. Consulate put us in touch with the senior Customs official at the airport and we met with him. He's Joao Vicente. He understood our problem and said he would work on it. When we called him back yesterday, he said that he had talked with the Federal Police and they will do a special procedure for the bike import paperwork. It seems a Customs problem, not a police problem, but that's where we are now. Carnival has now started so nothing will happen until next Wednesday. We have an appointment with him then, and have little to do for the time being. Don't want to apply pressure elsewhere while we have his promise to be fixing it.

The way the first Customs agent got all heated up, it seemed like a huge deal. But maybe it's not such a problem at the land borders. Air and sea crossings seem to be much pickier.

We did get to see some of the Carnival party last night, but it mostly looked like a big drunk crowd.

[Singaporedream]

we entered brazil from bolivia. at the custom, they didnt gave me a stamp. they instruct me to go to the town bus station, where the immigration office is. we went there but its closed because its sunday.

next day we got the stamp. went back to the border police and ask for importation of bike. one of them said no need. but i insisted. after some hasseling, the senior officer came up, tell me to go to the town, some kind of government building. there i got my import permit after some interview.

brazil is one of the very good orderly country that we visited in south america. when we enter the country, they give us a computer printed document. when we exit, they give us another document to proof to anyone that the bike had exited from the country.

unlike others, when u exited, they just take the import document and said done. the officer may forget to 'check out' your bike and will get a fine for us, where we didnt have any proof.

so for your case, when u exit the country, forget about visiting the custom. take those border that is not so popular. u are not in fault. the custom officer is. dont let their fault be blame upon you.

[PatOnTrip]

I overstayed in brazil and had to pay about 4$/day for me and 7%/month of the value of my bike as importation tax

Patrick

[marker]

Have been in and out Brazil with EU and USA registered vehicles the last 9 years and never bothered about the temp import permit. But this only at landborders. (When shipping from\to Brazil it is a different story)
The Receita Federal (=customs) works different at every border and as long as there is no network it will be chaos. Tourists from one of the Mercosul countries do not need any temp import paperwork, therefor many borderofficials in the southern part of Brazil do not even know that people who are from a place further away than that dó need one. Same counts for the police so the chance they will stop you and ask for it is very small. at least I never had it during the 100.00o+ brazilian kms

If you want to ship it I would turn southwards again.
Foz do iguaçu= Prt Iguazu is an easy border (as is the Paraguay option), no questions asked by the Receita, on sundays they are not even there... and ship from Buenos Aires, some extra kms yes, but much less complicated than shipping from Brazil (even wíth the right documents)

[SgtMarty]

We got the Special Procedure paperwork, so the bikes are good. Don barely managed to get his bike shipped back to the states. What a hassle.

Varig and TAM first said they would fly the bikes, then later refused. American Airlines agreed, but had never done motorcycles from here before, so they had no experience. They made us take his bike partially apart so it could be pushed through a 1-meter X-ray machine to check it from hidden drugs. We barely got it reassembled yesterday in time to be loaded onto the pallet so it could be loaded and flown out.

The need to use a shipping agent added to the expense, and the way they work it all here, it is impossible to do without an agent. The airlines wouldn't even give us a price, but would only give it to an agent.

Maybe Sao Paulo would have been easier, maybe not. Anyway, my buddy is now back on a plane to the States, and I will ride my bike out, heading for Venezuela.

It was incredible stress, expense, hassle, and delay.

Just glad it's over.

Now, on to more good riding!

[ClaudeNfat]

glad to hear the good outcome.
Do the paperwork right when you enter venezuela in santa elena though, because they check it about 4 times on your way North, between santa elena and Puerto Ordaz, after that they don't really check.
BTW just saw about 40 bikes riding North yesterday, they were from Brazil and heasding for Margarita I guess.
have a nice journey
c

[*Touring Ted*]

Where are you now ???

I passed into Brazil at the Iguazu (Argentine) border and I also didnt get given a tempory import. Either did the two yankies I was with.... the canadians we met DID get given tempory imports though.

Some documentation (footprint guide) says you dont need it for 30 days (I think).. It doesnt seem to be an issue within brazil until you need to leave by air

Well, the moral of the post is, I passed the length of Brazil, borded the Ferry from Belem to Manaus and exited into Venezuala without EVER needing a tempory import for the bike. I even got my passport Visa extended in Belem with no questions asked.

I was stopped 3-4 times by police checking papers and I was NEVER asked for a tempory import. They only seemed to care about my yellow fever card and passport stamp.

When I left Brazil at the Venezuelan border, they didnt ask for the tempory import..

I cant see there problem as your trying to leave WITH your bike so your obviously not importing it illegally.