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Corrupt Police in Argentina. Ruta 14 Kilometer No. 341
I was heading North today 4-27-08 around 11:30 am on Ruta 14, Entre Rios when I was stopped exactly at Kilometer 341 where there is a permanent police checkpoint.
Thanks to GatoGato´s post on the subject I was ready for crooked cops in this region and had been planning my strategy and preparing Spanish phrases for the problem. There were at least 3 officers present and two working the North bound lane. I introduced myself, stated my name and asked politely for the officer´s name. He immediately looked irritated and identified himself only as ¨Jose¨. He proceeded to tell me my luggage was too wide and that I needed to pay a fine. I responded that I thought the fine for a fire extinguisher was more popular here. He looked at me very strangely and said he knew more about the law than I did. I responded that I always respected the law and the police. He repeated his demand for money pointing at my bag. I told him I had done nothing wrong. He asked for his fine again and I told him that many people had told me there were ¨problems¨ at Kilometer 341. He looked a little surprised and sarcastically called out to his friend that people were talking about the police at Kilometer 341. His friend did not laugh and looked uncomfortable. Yes, I repeated, in fact at least 5 people in Buenos Aires had told me there were ¨problems with the police¨ here at Kilometer 341. I said I´d never had any trouble with the dozens of other police I´d met in Argentina. At this point he looked disgusted and told me to leave. WOOT!!!!! There is no dirtier feeling than being screwed by a dirty cop and no better feeling than beating one at his own game in a second language. I went 30 KM down the road and met some other police who were friendly and waived me through. I stopped and picked an older one to talk with. I told him about the demands for money. He looked at my bags and said nothing was wrong with them. Then I told him GatoGato´s story about the pistol in the bathroom and said somebody should do something about the corruption at Kilometer 341. |
Good on you!
WooHoo! What a great story, the HUBB strikes again! I was following the original story and now your follow-up really is the icing. :clap::clap:
Regards Nigel in NZ |
So the thread should really be, "No way, Jose."
Well done!!! You've done us all proud. Corruption is a word that translates almost without change in many languages (French, Spanish, German) and the police do NOT like to be called that, face to face. Tim |
Don't it feel good?!!!!
Wow!! LONG LIVE THE HUBB !!! :clap:
I just love it when they are caught in their own twisted schemes! I speak the language like a native, yet have at times not been able to get out of something without a little grease. :nono: You know, the best part is that his other cop ;friends' are distancing themselves from him now because they are waiting for the hammer to fall! :rofl: |
Wow, this is great Laser Jock. That was very smart to prepare those phrases ahead of time. I am sure that they are crapping their pants at that checkpoint now.
I went to the federal police in Posadas to report the incident but they had just closed when I got there. I will report it when I go back to Buenos Aires. Long live the Hubb, and Comraderie! Quote:
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Nice...Sweet...Vakano...
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Threads like this give me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside! good job Lazer! Grant should start a "Corrupt police thread"!
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thread "stuck" :)
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This was the original thread whit all about Police Troubles in Argentina:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...rgentina-13295 All the info, relevant parts of the Transit Law, translation and other riders experience are there ….. Saludos.... |
This is the second time I´ve been on my toes for crooked cops thanks to The Hubb. The last time was just North of Lima, Peru where I also prevailed against a rather young officer who was experimenting with corruption.
GatoGato is correct. All of the police at KM 341 knew what was going on. You could see the guilt in their chubby little faces and their beady little eyes. I think it is time the International Motorcycling Community declared Jihad on corruption at KM 341. We need somebody to go in with a helmet camera and microphone. Cough.... Johan.... Cough Nice helmet camera setup. Johan of Borg. (Swedishrider.com) photo - rtwrider photos at pbase.com |
How about just a voice recorder and give it to the local news station? or set up a spycam on the bike and make sure you get them to "stand on their marks" LOL! Camera-phones are great for inconspicuous photo taking! Also, Javakap was talking about some org. in Argentina against police corruption? They should also be made aware of this thread. Here in Mexico they have the anti-corruption hotline, se llama honestel. I hope i don't have to use it, but i got it in my speed-dial for the next time they try to extort money out of me. Just gotta make sure they are real cops your dealing with, not fake clowns in disquise. These are the ones that really scare me!
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I will be crossing the place in another 7-8 days. I am in Sao Paulo now. I will ride south. Is there any alternative rout to avoid the mess?
Nelson |
I´ll give filming a try
Unfortunately Johan isn´t going that way Laser Jock, he´s going Mendoza direction.
I am but, and have a helmet camera, although it´s a Oregon ATC2000 and fairly obvious when mounted on my peak. I´ll see if i can mount it somewhere else, like on my luggage behind me. I´ll probably leave Buenos Aires tomorrow so see will keep you posted. I don´t have insurance but so this may be like riding into a fire, without an extinguisher... :-) Paul Van Hoof´s follow up of a corrupt regional police chief in Colombia actually resulted in the 50ish year old chief losing his job and being banned from working in a government postion for 10 years. I´ll let Paul tell that story though when he writes his book. (Guzzigalore, but not on HUBB.yet!) |
Nice work Lazer Jock. Let's keep the pressure on with everyone that passes there. The more honest police find out about this guy, the sooner we can get rid of him.
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I would advise you get insurance before heading north. |
The party is over?
I bought insurance from ATM (Asistencia Total de Motovehiculos) on Sarmiento 930, 2rd floor, Buenos Aires. East on street that runs diagnol past the obelisk. 30 pesos for 1mth, and a further 35 to incluye Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay, although it takes 3 business days to issue the document for the other countries.
So anyway i was all fired up for some fun at KM341 today, and so stopped at KM339 to attach my helmet camera on the right pannier. Rode up to the checkpoint and the policeman are in the middle of the road, not on the right. Oops. But then this is how the conversation went: Policeman: “Where have you come from?” Me: “Concepción del Uruguay” Policeman: “Where are you going?” Me: “Iguazu” Policeman: “Where are you from?” Me: “Australia” Policeman: nods his head in the direction for me to go and says “Buenos” (as they do, short for good afternoon) Me: “do i need a fire extinguisher for my motorcycle?” Policeman: “no” kind of smiles, and then starts walking to the car that is about to stop behind me, without giving me the chance to ask if my luggage was too wide! I was hoping he was going to ask if i had a fire extingusiher, so i could say yes, and when he would ask where, i had the phrase ready “if there is a fire, i will piss on my moto”. Plus no other police have stopped me, nor asked to see my insurance when i detour off the road to ask them directions. Damn. How come you have all the fun Gato Gato!? |
Nice!
Good try, nevertheless. Forgot to mention they stand on the left not the right at KM341. Beers on me if you can catch up to me in Florianopolis! |
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It is a shame we did got get to meet up. Hope you the best for the rest of your trip! |
Report it!
Jumping up and down on the officer's desk if need be. The more reports they get in BA the better, they probably have a 10 report threshold before they do anything. |
Good try Simon...Been stopped twice myself since I headed off from Buenos Aires but no fun corrupt police to shoot with the helmet cam here either. Maybe I have to head down to KM341 to give it a try or perhaps Peru will be fun enough.
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Trying to contact swedish rider
Just been travelling in South America and met swedish rider at eco-camp in torres del paine. Would like to say thank-you for inspiring me into taking bike test. Would love to stay in contact. LOUISE
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Prefer corruption to crazy legislation
Driving back from work today past a Police checkpoint and a motorcycle unit came in pursuit of me. Asked me to return to the checkpoint. They had stopped me for having no insurance, very surprised as I have insurance.
Given a choice, go home (without my car) and get supporting documents or my car will be removed to a secure location at a cost of £105 to me. Returned home, got documents, my insurance was valid but was not recorded on the Police computer. Seems 7 days grace is no longer legislation. The idea of corruption and brides sounds so appealling and armed with information from fellow travellers will be an enlightening experience compared to the UKs automated drones. :D |
"Seems 7 days grace is no longer legislation."
Are you talking about the UK and the old HORT/1 form? |
I'm glad this was stickied!
20,000 miles from Alaska to Ushuaia, and the only corrupt cops I met were 150-35 miles north of Lima. I was stopped 5 times, shaken-down 4 times, and I did not pay. Three times- at three different stops- I told the cops that THEY were the crooks. Oh I was pissed. The last cops that stopped me, about 35 miles north of Lima, insisted that I stay the night in a local hotel, rather than chance the road to Lima. Why, asked I? More corrupt cops between here and Lima? You can always tell that they're corrupt when they demand payment in US dollars. |
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Javier,
Aquí en Chile si pasa algo así yo puedo denunciar al carabinero (policía) ante la Dirección General de Carabineros. Es posible hacer algo similar en Argentina? Saludos! |
Denuncia en Argentina
Si Amigo es possible denunciar la policia en Argentina. Pero despues de various denuncias las problemas sigue en una manera como no habia denuncias...???
Que bueno es la systema en Chile, si La Direcion General ayuda. En estos dias algunas motocycetistas esta tratando a denunciar ciertos policias y tengo esperanza que va hacer una investigacion official. Vamos a ver....xfiltrate |
hello
we were stoped also 15 kms before colon / paysandu, the border argentine / uruguay coming from the south : before, we were and tried our chance at the border gualeguaychu / fray bentos (between buenos aires and colon) : it s been closed for 2 years ! we are driving in a 4x4 toyota we did not have our lights on so the policemen stoped us, took us apart, showed us their official paper with all the infractions, he wanted x equivalent liters of benzin in argentinian pesos, around 300 usd. he said if we paid on the spot to him it would be less otherwise full price at the border with the customs or the police. we had not read this thread before but we felt that there was maybe corruption in the air we decided not to pay on the spot, he took our names etc ... and told us he ll contact the border officers. at he border, nothing happened :-) all went super fine and quick without a carnet de passges en douanes so it s still going on, i think it s the same area but not sure take care there happy trails |
Don't know if it is the same copper, but...
Stopped us, said we've speeding 7km/h over limit (110km/h was max, they said ours was 117km/h).
It's the crossroad from the road from Buenos Aires on the direction to Iguazu falls that crosses with RP16. S 33deg 02.004min W058deg 37.007min We knew our speed was OK and not over limit. The officer wanted around 300USD fine, which clearly was over the local standards and gave us immediatly a hint he's obviously talking bollox and trying to make a fortune! (And he was very serious about it) We said it's impossible, asked to show the radar-gun for proof, we have a contact in Argentina for help, etc. typical methods to tire the and spend their time - it worked. :) (thanks goes to Xavier @ Dakar Motos for advice) So if you see a officer in mid-30s age with very serious face wanting your money then you know what to do. ;) |
Just Keep Going
worked for me yesterday , i was on rn19 west of san francisco, went thru a roundabout , looked legal to me,anyways cop shows up behind me from somewhere and follows me for 10 minutes with his light on .I gave him a wave to pass then after 10 minutes he passed , too hot to talk i guess .
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More Problems Ruta 14... KM 590
Argentine traffic police have a camera set up on Ruta 14 at KM 590.
Hubber Jeff got nailed for not having his headlights on at 10:30 AM! "No hacer uso permanente de las luces bajas encendidas" Ley Naciaonal de transito No 24.449 , Ley Nacional No 25.456. After the camera takes a picture, the authorities mail the citation to the address of record of the vehicle. But, not right away... the alleged infraction occurred back in March and the paperwork arrived here in Buenos Aires, about 2 weeks ago. November 08. Good that I looked at it because the fine is $247.00 pesos, $83.00 US dollars, but if not paid by 12 December it jumps to $312.00 pesos (over $100.00 US) and after that payment for the fine will not be accepted, and a summons will be issued to the owner of the vehicle. I have no clue what the penalty will be if this happens. Fines can be paid at any Branch of Banco de la Nacion The citation included a black and white photo of the front of "Cristina" Jeff's Citroen 3cv. A "color photograph is available by request," it is impossible to determine if the lights are on or off in the black and white. So turn on your lights on Ruta 14. And, be aware that "Gran Hermano" is watching. For foreign tourists, without an Argentine mailing address, I suppose the citation is mailed to whatever address is listed on the temporary vehicle import permit. If there is one? This would only be a problem if a camera takes your picture for whatever infraction .... and the time allowed to pay the fine has expired, and your plate was run by the police, then there might be a problem. An Argentine friend has advised me that these cameras are looking for stolen vehicles/stolen plates. I am not sure how a photograph would assist in recovery of the vehicle/bike, but I do know auto/bike theft is a problem here. I would not lose any sleep over this, and my purpose in sharing this is to let you know that on Ruta 14 at KM590 Big Brother is watching. xfiltrate |
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Where?
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Cheers |
My buddy and I were each stopped on Ruta 14 last week. We were headed up to Iguazu from Buenos Aires at the time.
I was waved over by a young cop that had me for not having my lights on. I was sent into an office trailer where a more senior officer tried to get 225 Pesos from me. When I leaned across the desk and told him that I would pay him nothing (while slashing the air between us with my hand) he was very surprised. My buddy, Don, stood outside the door and took photos of the guy trying to get money from me. Eventually he let me go. Further north on Ruta 14, Don was stopped and told that a radar had him speeding. When Don pointed out that they didn't have a radar gun, the cop said that the radar had been at another location. Then he changed his mind and said that Don's headlight was not on. They were determined to come up with anything. Don was sent into another office where he played dumb with an older officer until they started getting frustrated with him. Don took out his camera and boldly took the photo of the cop trying to get money from him, then turned and took a photo of the senior cop who stood off to the side. The senior cop went a got a camera and took Don's photo. Don laughed at them at that point. They quickly got frustrated with him and let him go. I stood outside the office taking photos but they wouldn't let me go inside. When Don left, another motorist they had stopped went in with money in her hand and came back out in 15 senconds without the money. She was obviously a local and she knew the scam. She refused to speak to any of the police. She was in her car before we were back on our bikes. There were maybe 15 or more police checkpoints on Ruta 14, and we got stopped a few times and simply asked where we were going. The police in green uniforms seemed to be more professional and never messed with us. When I get my ride report caught up, the photos I mentioned above will be included. I'm currently in Buenos Aires looking for a replacement KLR650 motor, since someone took the oil cap off my motor at a tire shop and I rode off without realizing it. The motor is now toasted and it'll be faster and cheaper to replace than to rebuild. The bike is now at Dakar Motos, but my wife is here now and we have an apartment for the week. |
They got me three days ago there!
We were traveling by 2 pickups and I was hit for 800 pesos, had just came out of a gas station and had forgotten to turn ont the headlight and they stopped me for that then got all bent out of shape due to the rear tire carrier.
When I ask to see the law the offiser pull out an old torn book and show me the law but the says it has changed and must pay. Due to time issues and traveling with two other vehicles I ended up paying. This guy SUCKS! Travel on! |
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Stopped on Ruta 12
Feb. 1 On the way up on Ruta 14 there were 7 check points, only had to stop and tell them where I was going once. I have no idea what they are looking for, maybe it is one of those make work projects. No problems at 341 just waved on. It may just have been Sunday and they thought that stealing on Sunday was bad or the National Police may have got the bad apples out. Being new to this I was ready to spend a couple of hours saying "no pay"
Feb. 2 got up to Ruta 12, town of Capiovi where I filled up with gas. As I pulled out to get back on Ruta 12 I was waved over by two police. Seems I had made an illegal turn and I needed to pay them a fine. What little Spanish I have went away and they soon gave up and away I went. Only to be followed out of town be little police van. It finally passed me and waved me over this time (different set of police) said I had been speeding. Again no Spanish so one of them called a girl who spoke English and handed me the phone she told me I had to pay them before I could leave. I told her that at the Border they said never pay police or I get in big trouble (not true but sounded good). Just kept saying "no pay police" and indicated that they should go ahead and write the ticket and I would pay at border, it seemed they did not want to actually write the ticket because then there would be a record. One had removed his name tag (Velcro) but the other had his, so I got out my note pad and pen. He now had to go to van then came back without name tag. Finally they gave up and let me go, was a lot of fun and better than dealing with the Washington State Patrol who no longer care what the law is and just want to shaft someone (long story for another day). So it seems that corruption continues up here but they were not wanting to be identified and did not push real hard so there may be some cleanup efforts underway. Other than this Argentina has been a great place to ride with really good people. Road Hog:scooter: |
Normally, I never argue with a cop about whether to pay or not. When advised of my infraction, I politely ask to pay the fine there, which of course is immediately agreed to. Then I innocently had them a credit card. Unable to accept my credit card, I then apologize and hand them a travelers check which is followed by demands for cash.
Showing them my dummy wallet containing only small change, I then keep repeating, "Please charge this to my credit card" until they give up. This has worked all over the world except in Argentina where, seven years ago, cops north of BA were very insistent playing the no-insurance issue--even took me back to the cement room and laid a pistol on the table. I held firm, acknowledging my crime, but had no cash to pay. It took awhile but they let me go. At a restaurant up the road, when relating the story to locals, they pleaded with me to report the incident to higher authorities as the only way to put a stop to this. Unsure of what problems this could create further up the road, I just continued to Brazil without further incident. At least for bikers, it's important that we always put up some defense against this type of police criminal activity. Pretty soon, cops will realize that we are not worth the trouble and seek softer targets. So far, in numerous years roaming the planet, I've only paid twice. Once in Peru when stopped by cops on Harelys for speeding. (I was) They were so frustrated that someone who was actually guilty did not have money to pay, they took me back to their base to consult with their commander. After a brief mediation, the citing officer eventually agreed to accepting a scratched up pair of old sunglasses. The next was in Malawi, when caught riding a few blocks with my helmet sitting on my tank instead of my head. I had been asking directions several times and just decided to leave it off temporarily. This was not acceptable to barefoot constables dressed only in ragged shorts. "Riding without a helmet is a very serious crime in Malawi and you must pay a fine." When agreeing to pay the fine if they would provide a receipt, they claimed that, the receipt book would not be available until the next day. "No problem, I'll return tomorrow to pay the seven dollar fine." If that was the case, then they demanded to impound my bike for the night. Since we were right next to the police station and my hotel was only a few blocks away, I agreed if they would escort me back to my room. Once back in my room, I broke out my laptop for a quick slideshow and bought them a beer. The next morning, I paid the fine, got a receipt and they unchained my bike with those great African smiles. |
Report corruption, how?
Anyone out there know where to send reports about police corruption in Argentina. I would write up my experience there and send in. If everyone did this I think we could put a lot of pressure on them to clean up the problem areas.
I fly home (Washington State, USA) today from BA but would send report in if I can get address. Road Hog :scooter: |
Anybody know what province Km No.341 is in? It is hard to find out on any map I have.
Blair |
Ruta km 341 province
The province is Entre Ríos, near to the border with Corrientes province...
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Blair |
I knew there was a reason i logged on when possible. Will try and learn the same phrases for 2 weeks time. Three of us on KLR´s will pass that way then.
Thanks alot guys, will let you know the result. |
Hey flyde, where you headed and where you coming from?
I found a good bypass of this area but it dependeds on your route. If you have no plan for BA and are heading to or from Bariloche, there is a good route thru Rosario. If headed south out of Paso de Los Libres take 14 to Cuatro Bocas then take 127 west to 6. Take 6 south to 39, take 39 west to 26, take 26 south to Rosario. From Rosario take 33 south to Trenque Lauquen there you will hit 5. There were only 2 checkpoints incountered, one 14 just south out Paso be Los Libres (of course) and one at Sauce de Luna at the intersection of 127 and 6. There was only one area of bad road (pot holes) and you get out of all the construction and checkpoints on 14. 33 from Rosario to Trenque Lauquen was most through farm land and must better scenary the 14, Ride on! |
more on dodgy cops ruta 14...
we got stopped here too back in january 2009 heading north at the same check point. we were asked to go into the little station where a policeman tried to sting us for a 360 pesos fine for overtaking on double yellow lines which we had not done. we were two bikes at the time and he could not tell us which bike it was that had infringed. i asked for evidence that we had done this and he obviously could not produce anything so we refused to pay and said that it was illegal what he was asking from us.
his next angle was the paperwork, asking for insurance papers. we just handed over photocopies of our ozzie rego papers in english and said that these were international insurance papers...he could not read english and got pretty frustrated and soon gave up on us and sent us on our way. whatever you do, don´t hand over your passport as they could easily hold you for it. |
Fell into it. Damn!
This is a good thread. As I had read it by coincidence before going there I was prepared, so I thought. As I've lived in Bolivia for some time so I thought no corrupt cop is going to f#$%k me. I know how to deal with those bastards... so I thought.
As I come up the overhead bridge where these guys are an officer, a woman signals me to slow down in speeds. I do so but at the very last she signals me to pull over. Another cop comes over and tells me to step into the office. I smell coima (bribe). The officer sitting there puts up his "this is very serious face, this'll cost ya" face and tells me I was speeding. I tell him to show me some proof: "all speed controls I have seen work with this speed pistol thing so you should too". "We don't have that". "So how do you know I was speeding" I smile and he changes. "you've been neglecting the roadsigns and you braked too abruptly". The fine is 1300 pesos. That's a ridiculous us$400. I tell him that's ridiculous and he sends me to the lady's office next door. She finally comes down to 200 pesos. The thing is all this time I was waiting for them to ask me if we couldn't "arrange" something. I never mentioned such a thing as I consider bribing good for Bolivia, a third world country, not for Argentina. I hate those few cops that **** up the impecable image that I had of Argentine police till now. Anywas what I am trying to get to is this. I told her that people are talking about "problems" at this particular police stop. She was not impressed and replied "O so you have been reading the newspapers, have you?" I said yes, wich was false but it showed that they've even been in the news! I insisted on knowing her name and number and she wrote it all down neatly on the same receipt and politely indicated me where to do my "reclamo". So there I was, having paid an oficial fine for something that I suposedly did wrong. In the end they only expected me to end up bribing. As I showed no sigh of wanting to do any such thing they just end up giving you a real fine wich doesnt end up in their pockets but it still hurts a little. That's then their punishment for not colaborating with them bastards. I retrospect I could have done three things. Pretend not to speak any spanish, I tried it before and it doesn't work, even worse if your bike is licensed in Bolivia. But the other two are my advice: or you say you agree with any fine but you don't carry any money. You will be sent a fine or something and you have to go to some bank to pay. Either the fine will never get anywhere or instead of going to the bank you go complain about your fine somewhere. Or you say you don't agree with the violation of traffic rules that you're accused of and that also gives you the right to go and claim your rights elsewhere. In any case paying your official fine doesn't get you anywhere. The day after we went to Gendarmeria and the police to complain and we were told that it smells of bribing like a pigsty but there's no proof. It's your word against theirs and it'll get you nothing more than a major headache. I'm still waiting for someone to go in with a helmet cam, show all on the local television to nail these bastards. We were told that it will actually work since even illegally filmed evidence is evidence. Do it! Gert PS. can you believe the local truckdrivers went on strike for a week in order to get these guys out of there? And it didn't work, they're still there doing their thing. Bastards. |
Gert, sorry to hear that you fell into their trap.
My advise is just to avoid that area. I will rather drive an extra 500km detour to avoid these situations. We've done this in Peru, avoided an area with corrupt cops reported on the HUBB and never had an issue. Thanks guys for posting your experiences. Cheers Johan |
We went through a week ago and within two hours we were requested twice for bribes on Routa 12 & 14.
The first situation we were coming down the bridge and were accused of speeding. We denied that we were, explained how economic we were. When we requested the photo they had apparently taken we were shown a security camera of the imadiate area. While treading carefully we joked about this and also explained that our KLR's are so slow we couldnt speed if we tried. 20 minutes later we had our documents back and were out the door. Further up the road we were asked again to dismount and remove our helmets then escorted to a senior officer who had a calculator and some paperwork on the bonnet of his car. He said 25km earlier we were seen overtaking a truck on double yellow lines. At this point i didnt know if i should pretend i didnt understand or deny that we would of. I chose the denial option and he then typed 3950 peso into his calculator ($1000)and insisted we paid imediatly. Not being able to pay this even if we wanted. He kindly brought it down to 1000 peso. I said id have to call the embasy and australia to get the money and it would take 3 days, he was welcome to search the bike but he wouldnt find much more than rice and water. His sugestion then was for us to go to the gas station to withdrawl the money or he would take the bikes. After the situation became awfully frustrating for him he instructed another officer to take photos of the bikes and explained we will have problems at the border if we didnt produce the coin. This was the oppertunity for us to get out the camera and take his photo, soon after this we had our documents back and were back on the bikes. In all it delayed us almost two hours of riding time but not a peso passed our palms. I can only hope for similar luck in the coming months. :palm: |
We're still riding down south (Patagonia) and have met only friendly police officers. It is hard to imagine that they are so different in the north and I realy hope that crap like that does not change our possitive veiw we have of the country so far. Our disadvantage (or advantage, I'm not sure yet) is that we cant speak Spanish, so cant defend ourselves if we need to.
Is the entire north like this (corrupt cops) or is it only Ruta 12 and 14? I dont mind staying off those two roads if that will ensure us some piece from these crooks. johan |
^It is just those two roads.
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Desperate times on Rutas 12 & 14, Argentina
If a syndicate of angry local Argentine truck drivers cannot stop the bullies (police) who are extorting money along Rutas 12 & 14, and, according to reports posted here, foreign motorcycle adventurers are also being extorted, perhaps it is time to call for new and innovative ideas to solve the problem.
I have tried the political approach in Buenos Aires and have discovered that unless action is taken at national political levels beyond my reach, local politicians in Buenos Aires do not know about the problem, do not care, or are politically unable or unwilling to take action, or even take the time to research the problem. Several national Diplutados (congressmen) here believe this is business as usual in the provinces (which it is not!) and gave me the old wink and nod. Apparently, this is a territorial dispute and must be handled locally. Desperate times require desperate measures. These bullies, whom in no way are representative of the vast majority of local police in Argentina, need to be continually confronted locally, as most of those posting here have done. Good for you. In addition, I suggest we ask Benka Pulkco to mount up and ride into *Dodge, while most of us are just trying to get out of Dodge or avoid riding through Dodge, she might realize that these bullies have collected enough money to help finance her next world record. Once Benka is through with these outlaws, they will be the ones giving us a wink and a nod as we ride by. On a more serious note, this is not a case of Madoff stealing from Wall Street investors, or the US Treasury bailout rip off, but it is something that affects us and our freedom. Please post any new ideas that can be implemented locally to stop the bullies on Rutas 12 & 14. I will follow up, with your approval, once we select the best strategy. thanks xfiltrate *Dodge legendary southwestern cowboy town that was cleaned up by Sheriff Mat Dillion on the "Gun Smoke" series of early television programs. Might still be in reruns somewhere. |
How about if all of us send a letter to the Argentinian ministry of Justice and Human rights, and a copy to the Argentinian embassy in our country. Maybe...maybe someone do something about this corrupt policemen.
I found the address in the internet. Sarmiento 329, C1041AAG Buenos Aires T. 4328-3015 Web page : Ministerio de Justicia, Seguridad y Derechos Humanos - República Argentina email : prensa@jus.gov.ar It would be nice if someone write a letter in Spanish and post it here so everybody can copy it. Antonis |
We Are On It!
Antonis Vassiliou, has suggested a letter campaign. Elisa and I are now reviewing the suggested web site. We have found the Anti corruption Office that as Antonis says has a report form for public use.
Ministerio de Justicia, Seguridad y Derechos Humanos - República Argentina Elisa is Spanish and has a PHd in Spanish Literature, is a retired professor and currently a professional translator. I speak Spanish, so together, after an analysis of the web site we will determine, after consulting with Grant and Susan, the most appropriate place to post the English translation with instructions. My only comment is that, as foreigners, North Americans especially, many Argentine officials now look upon us as being responsible for the global financial melt down. The United States is in debt to China for more than a trillion dollars, and the Chinese are investing heavily in the Argentine economy to divest themselves of the devaluating dollar. This, actually is a short term point in our favor. The U S dollar is "fiat money," (inconvertible paper money made legal tender by government decree), and now the Saudis have requested President Obama that oil contracts be paid in gold rather than dollars. This will devaluate the dollar rapidly and of course the Argentine peso is tied to the U S dollar. This point is NOT in our favor. As the financial bubbles continue to surface and burst and the U S Treasury bails out AIG, so AIG could payoff Goldman Sachs failed investments, we discover that present and past U S Treasury Secretaries were employed by Goldman Sachs. The corruption on Ruta 14 pales in comparison. I hope everyone gets my point. Corruption is not isolated to Ruta 14 and keep in mind the hardship, we as exploiting foreign investors, have created in Central and South America. Not to mention the political coups foreigners have financed. Please be polite, humble and understanding in your reports to Argentine high level officials, they are intelligent, very well educated and dedicated people doing the very best they can. I am sure. xfiltrate |
Helloooo Ed and Elisa,
How are you? We met three years ago in a beach in Mexico, on our trip from New York to Argentina. Remember the 2 Cypriots? As for the corrupt policemen I think they should get what they deserve. I would have said the same for any corrupt policeman in any country. Antonis |
My friends from Greece
Antonis, of course we remember you and your friend. How are you two good lookin guys? Are the BMWs still right?
Those were interesting days and nights camping on the beach, on the west coast of Mexico years ago. Remember those sexy surfista girls? There are no limits to who GPS can bring together! We followed your ride down through Central America via your e-mails. In Costa Rica, I see you did visit a few hot spots there. Bet you have some a great ride tale or two, or maybe a couple "tale rides". We are in Spain for a couple more weeks, but currently reside in Buenos Aires. Elisa is off on a promotional tour for her new acting career, and I will post our translation as soon as we finish our review of the web site you suggested as maybe being helpful toward the goal of reducing police corruption along Ruta 14. Where are you now? I have some great photos of you and your friend and will e-mail them to you, if you like. You still have same e-mail address? Will post translation of form etc in the next day or two. xfiltrate |
How To Officially Report Police Corruption In Argentina
Grant and Susan, please advise if I should post this info anywhere else, thanks xfiltrate
Thanks to Antonis Vassiliou, anyone can now can make an official report about police corruption on Ruta 14 and any other Ruta in Argentina. If you would like to submit a complaint regarding police corruption anywhere in Argentina, you can submit it in English by going here: http://www.jus.gov.ar/contactenos.shtml REPORT FORM IS TRANSLATED BELOW The report form can also be found by going to the website of the MINISTERIO de JUSTICIA, SEGURIDAD y DERECHOS HUMANOS Ministerio de Justicia, Seguridad y Derechos Humanos - República Argentina Scroll down and click on the icon of a white envelope with the words: "Consultas, Reclamos y Denuncias" Ministerio de Justicia, Seguridad y Derechos Humanos HERE IS THE REPORT FORM WITH TRANSLATION // contáctenos Formulario de Contacto CONTACT FORM (*) Indíca obligatoriedad (*) mandatory Tipo de Trámite SELECT: "Denuncia" (*) (COMPLAINT) Asunto: IN THE BOX, IN ENGLISH OR SPANISH INDICATE YOU ARE REPORTING ILLEGAL POLICE ACTIONS AGAINST A FOREIGN TOURIST. DESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENED BE SURE TO INCLUDE EXACT LOCATION ON RUTA 14 ETC... KILOMETER, TIME OF DAY, AND IDENTIFICATION AND A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF THE POLICE INVOLVED. KEEP IT BRIEF AND EXPLAIN YOU ARE A FOREIGN TOURIST TOURING ARGENTINA BY MOTORCYCLE, BUT YOU CAN BE CONTACTED VIA E-MAIL. PLEASE INDICATE THAT MANY OTHER FOREIGN MOTORCYCLE TOURISTS HAVE HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS ON RUTA 14 AND ASK THAT THIS SERIOUS COMPLAINT BE INVESTIGATED. IF YOU HAVE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE POLICE INVOLVED BE SURE TO SAY SO HERE. Apellido: (*) LAST NAME Nombres: (*)FIRST NAME Tipo de Documento: (*) SELECT: "Pas" PASSPORT N° de Documento: (*) PASSPORT # Teléfono: E-Mail: (*) BE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR E -MAIL ADDRESS Observaciones: COMMENTS, IN THIS BOX IN SPANISH OR ENGLISH WRITE ANY ADDITIONAL "PERSONAL" COMMENTS AND EXPLAIN THE HARDSHIP THE POLICE CORRUPTION HAS CAUSED YOU, INCLUDE LOSS OF YOUR VALUABLE "TOURIST TIME" IN ARGENTINA, MONEY, ANY FEAR OR STRESS YOU EXPERIENCED, AND BE SURE TO DESCRIBE ANY THREATS MADE AGAINST YOU BY THE POLICE, AND INDICATE WEAPONS PRESENT. CLICK "ENVIAR" TO SEND OR CLICK "LIMPIAR" TO ERASE Please post any questions on this thread and thanks to all of you who report and thanks to Elisa for helping with the translation. If anyone gets an e-mail response from Justice, please share it on this thread. xfiltrate |
Thank you Ed for all your help.
You are right. It was a lot of fun on that beach...actually the whole trip was fantastic. Now I am happily married and thinking for the next trip with my wife this time. My email is still the same. I will appreciate it if you send me the photos. keep in touch regards to Elisa Antonis |
Very good xfiltrate!
That police stop us last year, and they don't let us go without pay them or stay there until the other day to go to a bank, etc. We try to start a conversation without sucess. They took all our money, fortunately I hide the US$ 100 on the bags of the bike or they will get then too. I tell the I only have a credit card with me, and US$ 60 plus some "pesos". Very bad end of trip, arriving in Uruguay to enter in Brazil. :( |
Please report complaints, help stop the corruption
Antonis, will send a couple photos very soon. Congratulations on your marriage. Were you married in Greece? Hope to meet up with you and your bride when you tour again. Love each other. "Filatimo" my friend.
Robson Jaborá/SC, I am very sorry to hear of the trouble the police caused you in Argentina. I suggest you go to the web site (listed in my last post) and report exactly what happened. It seems you were actually taken hostage by the police. YOU can report in Portuguese. If you have any questions about filing out the form, just ask. And, keep us all posted when you receive a response to your complaint. Thank you for reporting I just found out today that some police in the State of Texas have been accused of extorting money from travelers for years. We must stand up for our rights, especially when the police violate us instead of protecting us. These bad police give a bad name to the majority of police who do protect us. I hope that all who have had similar experiences file a complaint as explained in my last post. xfiltrate |
xfiltrate,
Don't worry about this. I knew that was a problem on that route, but I try to pass. And you have to know that corrupt police exist in everywhere, including Brazil. I'm glad because you live near here, and I believe we can meet ourselfs one day. Keep in touch OK? |
They're still out there on Ruta 14! And they read minds!
My paranoia about the corrupt cops on Ruta 14 finally came to fruition last week. I hadn´t been stopped yet, but that afternoon I cam to the infamous roadblock at km 341. I knew it was coming up and so VERY carefully followed the rules. I slowed to 80 at the 80 sign and 60 at the 60 sign. They pulled me over anyway. First told me I was speeding and they had me on radar. I said (politely) BULLSHIT! I told the cop that I knew that they were there, that I knew that this section was very ¨vigilantly¨ patrolled, and that I wasn´t speeding. I also showed my badge (I used to be a cop).
Then the cop asked me for my insurance papers. I had the copy of my Panama car insurance, appropriately doctored to include my bike (thank you PhotoShop) and include an ¨international coverage endorsement¨, and an appropriate Panama document stamp to make it look official, so he accepted that. Then he told me he could fine me because I wouldn´t have stopped if he hadn´t pulled me over. So I guess now they are mind readers! I told him that wasn´t true, that I had every intent ion of stopping, and I did stop. There wasn´t much more he could say so he let me go, and didn´t look very happy doing it. The next day (a few hundred km south if Iguasu) I got stopped by the cops again. This time it was totally my fault. While I hadn´t seen anybody passing over a double yellow line further south, up here they do it all the time. Of course when I did it there was a cop right in back of me. It took a LOT of talking to get out of this one. It was Saturday, and they told me I would have to follow them to the station where they would lock up my bike until I paid the fine on Monday. I know that is complete bullshit. They don't lock up vehicles for two days for a minor traffic violation, but they were hoping I would ask what I could do to avoid it. I finally talked my way out of it by a combination of ¨fellow cop¨ routine (which wasn't working too well) and telling them that the slow truck that I passed had kept motioning for me to pass and I thought he had a problem. I just kept repeating that I wouldn't have passed over the line except that the truck in front kept motioning me to do so. Every time they said something else I repeated the same story. When they finally told me they would have to fine me or their chief would get mad I said ¨I understand. Take me to your chief and I´ll talk to him too¨. They didn´t like that idea too much and finally let me go. Phew! I'm now in Brazil where I understand the cops are a bit more honest (although there are a LOT of them). |
Very interesting!
I don't know what will happen with this situation, but it's caotic of course. Well, Where are you in Brazil? Will you visit me? :welcome: |
From a Chilean forum (sorry for the Spanish):
Así es amigos. Es el colmo !!!!!!!!!!. Sorry a mis amigos argentinos por lo que viene, pero no tiene nada que ver con la gente, que se portó EXCELENTE !!!!!. El día lunes 5 de enero íbamos saliendo al medio día rumbo a Colonia (Uruguay) y nos fiscalizaron 2 veces en menos de 2 horas la policía Argentina. La primera vez en Buenos Aires, y la segunda ya en carretera. En ambas ocasiones la opción era "pagar la multa en el lugar"...... Nos buscaban cualquier cosa, si hasta nos pidieron botiquín y EXTINTOR !!!!!!.... Que la póliza de seguro no servía, PERO COMO, SI INGRESAMOS POR LIBERTADORES CON ESA PÓLIZA Y NADIE NOS DIJO NADA !!!!!!. En realidad es el colmo. GASTAMOS MÁS DE 300 pesos argentinos en COIMAS entre ambos controles.Y todo en menos de 2 horas !!!!!!!. Para que saquen las cuentas, un peso argentino son $ 200.- pesos chilenos........ SI ....... $ 60.000.- PESOS CHILENOS EN 2 CONTROLES !!!!!!!!!!!. Luego de eso decidimos volver de inmediato, ya que en el control de carretera (el primero que nos encontrábamos ) tenían una fila de vehículos detenidos como si fuera una fila de supermercado...... todos listos a pasar por caja. Literalmente nos asaltaron !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Y peor aún, era imposible evitar el asalto. Si hasta tuvieron el descaro de preguntarnos "cuanto tenés ???": En Buenos Aires: Policía : "la multa sale $ 500 pesos, si pagás ahora te puede salir por $ 200 ".... Yo : "tengo $ 70 pesos, nada más.......!!!! no hemos podido cambiar ". Policía : " Eso es muy poco. Tenés pesos chilenos ???". Yo : " como 20 mil......" Policía : " esta bien, con los 70 pesos y los 20 mil alcanza..... mirá que si te paso la multa son como 500 pesos y no podés salir del pais." En carretera: Policía : "Documentos de la moto, botiquín y extintor......". Yo: "QUE ?!?!?!". Policía : "Sha le dije, Documentos de la moto, botiquín y extintor !!!!! ". Yo : " no tengo extintor ni botiquín, en chile no es necesario ....... " Policía : " en Chile podrá ser, pero acá es necesario y debe portarlo. Le voy a tener que sacar una multa......además este no es el papel del seguro..... debe ser una hoja verde del seguro del tratado del Mercosur....." Yo: "Con ese papel pasé la aduana de Los libertadores, en Orcones. y nadie me puso problemas !?!?!?!". Policía : "Este papel no es y además esta mal extendido..... voy a tener que pasarle otra multa. Además en cualquier control que le hagan se lo van a rechazar." Yo: "Pero como si con ese papel ingresé a Argentina hace una semana y no me pusieron problemas !?!?!?!!......... Nadie me dijo nada sobre una hoja verde....". Policía : "acompañemé a la oficina y lo arreglamos....". En la oficina: Policía : "Podés pagar la multa acá. Cuanto tenés ??? ". Yo: "(otra vez no !!!!) Ya no tengo plata , nos controlaron en Buenos Aires y ya no me queda plata. Tenemos lo justo para ira a Colonia y volver......" Policía : "No van a poder pasar a Uruguay sin el papel verde. Los van a multar en cada control carretero...... preguntále a tu señora y vean cuanto tienen para pagar la multa acá. Andá.... " PUTA QUE RABIA WN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Al final otro tanto entre pesos argentinos que teníamos para bencina y pesos chilenos. En ese mismo instante decidimos volver. A la 1:30 de la tarde y a 40 Km de Uruguay. Este es un pequeño resumen del por qué volvimos 4 dias antes de Argentina. La verdad...... YA NO NOS QUEDABA MAS PLATA PARA ESTAR ALIMENTANDO A ESOS DESGRACIADOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. |
Quote:
Hombres sin Honor y sin Verguenza !! |
Estimado Dias de Playa:
Si consideras que tenes todo en regla, solo tenes que decirles que hagan la multa, acto seguido te negas a firmarla y a seguir viaje, no pasa nada con eso y como saben que la multa no la pueden hacer porque lo que te estan pidiendo (matafuegos-botiquin) no es exigible por ley de transito, no la hacen nunca. Lamentablemente la policia caminera es asi, tratan de sacar plata a culaquiera, pero cuando se encuentran con alguien que no les de cabida y tiene todo en orden, no les queda mas remedio que dejarte seguir. Saludos Fabio Quote:
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To Photoshop or not to Photoshop?
Stbarnett, You posted:
"I had the copy of my Panama car insurance, appropriately doctored to include my bike (thank you PhotoShop) and include an ¨international coverage endorsement¨, and an appropriate Panama document stamp to make it look official, so he accepted that." In Mexico, I worked for 3 years part time for the International Red Cross, (Cruz Roja) one of my duties was to visit citizens of the United States being held in Mexican jails. I base what I write here upon heart wrenching personal observations of how quickly, even a well respected motor vehicle insurance company, can find a legality (illegal title transfer for example) to abandon and avoid paying the liabilities of their "clients." In the event of an accident with substantial property damage and/or personal injury, in most Latin American countries, all persons involved (especially foreign tourists) go directly to jail. The reason being the police on the streets are not authorized to determine fault. Foreign tourists stay in jail until bailed out by their insurance agent or after a judge verifies their insurance coverage. I visited many foreign tourists, at fault and not at fault in motor vehicle accidents, month after month as they waited in horrid conditions, for their turn on the impossibly over burdened Mexican court docket, for their sentencing or release from jail by a judge. Most foreign tourists with valid vehicle insurance were released immediately or within a few days. You might be able to avoid more contact with corrupt police if you purchase a valid motorcycle insurance policy. In Argentina a basic liability policy for motorcycles costs about $25.00 USD per month. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Hi
I would just compare this situation to any other EU country.Why not? Imagine to enter from a non EU into it with no valid insurance,they would put your vehicle on a truck and secure it into parking lot untill you pay the fine and show a valid insurance. I know its tempting to travel as cheap as posible.....but reality show up once you have some problem.I don´t even risk to go to any mercosur country without the "green" extention.If someone does i would say he is just stupid.And dirty cops know that.That is why the stupid guy must pay and feed the vultures!Untill he learns his lessons. My experience shows that having at least a minimum on legality pays out. As said its tempting to ride as cheap as posible.....just calculate insurance into the budget. Karl |
For the most part, I agree. I'll buy a week's worth or a month's worth of insurance for the countries in which I travel voluntarily, because it seems like a good idea just in case. However....
At the moment I'm in Peru, where insurance is available from just one agency nationwide (SOAT), which apparently will insure only for a yearlong period, at a cost of 600 soles, which is over US$200. That's too much money, so I'm taking my chances. In transiting Serbia I was forced to buy minimal coverage for, AFAIR, 90 euros; in that case, too, I would've gone without had I any choice. In other countries I've been unable to even find insurance for sale: Ukraine comes to mind, where no one I asked would insure and American rider on an American bike. In Albania I didn't find insurance until I was on the verge of leaving the country....and it cost an unacceptable amount of money anyway. It's not always as simple as "buy insurance just in case." The age when I routinely drove uninsured (and sometimes unregistered, unlicensed and unsafely) is long past me, thank god. This is part of what "older and wiser" is supposed to signify. Mark (departing Huaraz, Peru) |
Mark
I know,some times by crossing borders there is no chance to get any insurance at all! We are still to far away to say just buy cheap reliable insurance at the border!!!!!! It would make things a bit safer and easier what? Take care and avoid corrupt cops in Peru.......:scooter: Karl |
Hi there
I just entered Peru this arvo from Ecuador and used the Huaqillas entry port. It was a confusing entry but that apart, I asled specifically about insurance and was told that is was not needed? I had read this thread before I entered and was prepared with dollars to do the deed, but it seems it is not needed? I was also pulled up at the customs control point prior to Mancora and although they checked my VIP and vehicle sticker, that is all they wanted to see. I have no idea whether I am in a bad situation, but we shall see, only another 2000km to go :) Cheers TS |
Insurance not needed?
TS, Thanks for your report that border officials have stated proof of insurance is not required to enter Peru. If you have read this thread, you may have realized that what some South American "authorities" say might or might not be true. And, an official not asking to see proof of insurance, cannot be interpreted as insurance is not required. How good is your spanish, something may have been "lost in translation" here.
Officially, insurance may or may not be required, but it is needed/required if you are involved in an accident with substantial property damage, or personal injury, otherwise you will go to jail and remain there until the courts sort out if will be charged with the accident or not. This could take months. If you are charged, you may well be held in jail until the civil courts render a judgement, this could take years. If you have insurance, your insurance agent might be able to bail you out, or you might not have to go to jail at all. And, most importantly, your insurance company will provide you with a qualified attorney. Fees to hire your own attorney in the event of a serious accident might be many thousand dollars. My points are: 1. without insurance foreign tourists are held in jail until fault is determined by a judge, and you will be responsible for finding and paying a Peruvian attorney to represent you! 2. A valid insurance policy issued by a reputable insurance company is your "get out of jail card." Proof of insurance might not be mandatory in Peru, but it is required to insure your freedom in the event of a serious accident. Check with other experienced foreign tourist over landers, get their opinion too. I have no dog in this fight, just too many years and too many tears remembering the plight of foreign tourists without insurance, involved in accidents in Mexico, Central and South America. My advice is to buy motorcycle insurance even if it is not required by law. Eat, Drink, and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Hey Travelling Storm - we did the same entry as you.. was a bit confusing thru Huaquilles but otherwise Peru side was a breeze... We are now in central Argentina after travelling thru Peru and Chile and no problem with cops at all even though we were told not to stop for cops along the coast road from Sullana all the way through to Lima.. told its dangerous.. All we saw were cops waving at us and the odd one now and then stopped to say hallo and where are you heading and showed no papers at all. Never been asked for insurance anywhere.. Not to say it wont be required but so far we have had a total breeze all the way through central and Southern america. Maybe travelling 2 up has something to do with it.
Take care and hope you are having fun. Julie Bunny |
Having fun, should be at Lake Tiitcaca for Xmas on the beach(a bit like home except 4000m in the air)
Cheers TS Quote:
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Just passed along Ruta 14 a few days ago, but passed KM 341 at about half past 10 at night, sneaking in behind a truck. Two cops were busy chatting, didn't see me, the third did, and I swear his jaw dropped, he just had a shocked look on his face. I gave him a quick nod and sped off. Think he saw his christmas bonus go with me!
Don't think they're used to gringos at that hour. Element of surprise is the key... |
OK, I have been in Argentina for over week now and am confused, in fact I have been through many borders to get into this country from Chile, then into Ushuaia and back etc etc , I am now on the east coast heading north.
Nowhere at any stage of my travels has insurance been asked for nor been sold, there are no signs, and no inofrmation at any of the crossings, so once again I guess it is a hoax situation? I know Mark was down south with me and so is Juliebunny, so maybe they can shed light on the insurance angle> I will try and give the 341km point a miss :) Cheers TS |
I'm now in Rio Gallegos looking for a new front 19" tire, and I have been twice asked for my insurance papers on the way South on Rta3.
Luck of the draw I guess? Mike |
Mike - nice to see you've put some miles in...
How did things go at EZE? |
PM sent.
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Yesterday coming south out of Trujillo, pulled out of a medium foggy rain for my first encounter with the Peruvian traffic cops. Immediately asked for SOAT, which I did not have. Their lawbook was pulled out, and I was shown precisely where SOAT is required for foreign vehicles. A copy of the law is available. look specifically at Page 5 first paragraph:
http://www.mtc.gob.pe/indice/B.-%20S...20Civil%20.pdf - I was eventually able to bluff my way out, and was sent on my way. I still have to tackle the 400km stretch through to Lima. I have not been able to find anything about short-term SOAT in Peru, which is unfortunate for this one week of travel here on my way to Chile. |
Police checkpoints on Ruta 14
I've just spotted this thread and realised that I too had a couple of problems on Ruta 14 back in December 2009. I can't tell you the KM marker but it was between Gualeguaychu and San Jose, so relatively close to Buenos Aires.
I was stopped twice; the first time I was asked for papers, the second I was told that I was doing 130km and had been recorded on a radar. I managed to successfully deal with both incidents trouble free. I had all my paperwork in order but for the first time in South America the police requested for "seguro" - insurance. I carry a fake laminated international insurance card with details of my bike frame #, registration etc, and then handed a paper supliment to my driving license, which the policeman assumed was the counterpart to my insurance. I was waved on my way. My advice: carry some kind of fake international insurance card/papers. I have carried mine for 48,000 miles and this is the first time I've had to use them. The second stop was on a stretch of road that had numerous signs warning of police radars and I was therefore very mindful of my speed. It wasn't long before I was waved down at a police check point. My tactics at police check points are always the same: Overshoot the police checkpoint. This isolates the policeman from his colleagues and helps any negociation to remain private and allows the policeman the opportunity to wave you on your way without losing face By over shooting I had time to remove my crash helmet and ingage in a quick and friendly conversation with a truck driver. By the time the policeman arrived I was all smiles and ready to greet him. I assumed that all the policeman wanted to ask was the normal "how fast, how much" question, so immediately I greeted him with a friendly "como estas". He quickly told me I had been caught in a radar at 130km which I knew was a lie because I had carefully stuck to 100km - I pointed to my GPS and said it was impossible because my GPS recorded my speed... I was still very friendly and with a grin like the cheshire cat. He asked me where I was heading and I used the opportunity to explain I had been to Buenos Aires, that I love his country and that everyone here is "muy sociable"... his chest puffed out a bit. I should add that my Spanish isn't great and that during the conversation the policeman tried the 130km line on me a couple of times, but I just waved it away with a smile and an "impossible" pointing at my GPS. Anyway, I was soon waved on my way with a big smile and a handshake from the policeman. I hope that helps someone |
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Spanish or no Spanish, this is by far the best way to deal with police - someone should sticky this paragraph up in all the 'border crossings' 'corrupt police theives' alarmist yadda yadda type of conversations here. 95% of the sticky situations are beaten by being friendly, yet assertive. ps not to say the current thread isn't helpful or relevant. If it helps travellers, I'm all for it. |
Peru: Police requested insurance papers north of Trujillo
We were both exhausted as we neared Trujillo from the north and stopped before a police checkpoint to take a photo. When we started again we were (naturally) pulled over by the police. They demanded insurance papers – seemingly knowing that it’s not required to have them to get the temporary import papers at the border for the bike. I produced my expired (by 3 months) Mexican insurance and assured the policeman it was valid worldwide. My riding partner wasn’t so lucky and didn’t have any papers to show him, so after 20 minutes of arguing, him reading the traffic regulations to us, and threatening to take us to Huanchaco (our beachside destination near Trujillo) to the police station, he finally let us go with a promise to buy insurance in the morning.
Coordinates of the police stop are: S 8° 00' 23.28" - W 79° 04' 14.60" Google map of stop and post are: Kuelap Ruins From Chachapoyas, Peruvian Motorcyle Insurance Shakedown, and Back on the Gringo Trail at Huanchaco on the Peruvian Coast*|*Trip on a KLR650 Motorcycle From Canada to Mexico, Central and South America |
Corrupt police vs Consulate
I was having a chat with some local lads in Minatitlan, Mexico, and noticed each time the police passed they would flinch or glare. I asked if the Police were good 'Buenos' or bad 'Malos`.
The continued to say that if I was not with them they would likely be subjected to a search, possibly robbed if they had cash.... etc etc. I aske why my prescence would make a difference, and they responded.... `Because you can call your consulate and comlain and they will get in trouble.' I have a quad band mobile I bought and had unlocked in Bolivia, and at each border crossing I simply buy a new chip and I`m on the grid again. Hassle with cops? Pull out the mobile, call, or even pretend to call the `CONSULATE` (make sure this word is said loud and clear so the cops can hear who you`re calling) adn surely this will make them think twice. |
I don't smoke but a packet of decent cigerettes/cigars (I've not seen a cop in South America who doesn't smoke) might immediately break the ice with a cheeky copper.
A big smile always helps as does talking about the weather and asking directions in crap Spanish. Talk to them in a friendly way before they can "try it on". Human nature usually prevails. |
Argentina Ruta 12
POSADA:
2 police cop stopped me at 3 am for a check up and told me since i had my head phones on and no seguro they were gonna confiscate my bike and that i could have paied the fine the next day. i asked if there was a faster way, maybe , perhaps i can pay the fine here now to them?? he told me he was gonna help me...20 dollars after that i was free to go. PUERTO IGUAZU: the next day i meet with 3 other guys from Brasil , by the end of ruta 12 "apparently there are radars" we got caught overtaking a truck on a double line on a corner, no seguro and over the limit. i am pretty sure there are no radar, the limit on the last 20km is somethinf like 40km/h..... insane...way tooo slow, all the locals truck are doing 100km/h anyway!!! hw said that they also have an other radar but this one wasn't working but the colleague told him we were speeding over the radio. Total fine..... 1500 Pesos!!! 960 pesos for speeding 250 pesos no seguro 360 pesos overtaking on the double line. he started entering the data of one of the guy on the computer, didn't ask for the other 3 of us then after a smoke and a long long bollocking he told us we could be let go fro 100pesos each.... we all place them in the drawer of his desk and left. if it wasn't for the bad overtaking we could have argue a little !!! QUESTION: any good soul would like to e mail me a copy of any kind of international licence?? thank you!!! Of to see Iguazu tomorrowwww!!! Yeahyy!!!P |
You can always argue! Politely, of course....but their demands for a lot of money are just opening offers. Even when you deserve to pay a fine, it never needs to be as much as they first ask.
As I've said before, my conclusion has been that US$5 pays any fine, anywhere in Latin America. A trucker I spoke with in Honduras said that for him, one or two dollars (equivalent) is always enough. So when the cops demand hundreds of bucks, or even twenty.....negotiate. They expect it. You need the practice. It will work. Mark |
thaknkz MARC
Thanks dude!!!
semi off topic///ANYONE where can i get an insurance in iguazu. or asuncionn or formosa???? cheers |
Just wanted to share with you guys that I went from Iguazu to Buenos Aires and avoided RT-14. I went from Posadas west to Resistencia, then south to Santa Fe, Rosario and then into Buenos Aires. There were police check points along that route too but I was waved through all of them. They do require your headlight to be on. I was running my auxiliary lights, but that wasn't enough. They stopped me at a check point outside of Iguazu and just told me to turn on my head light. :thumbup1:
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Kudos for calling their bluff!!
I spent a lovely few hours with those particular cops while they changed the story and fine amount over and over (NOTE: I also watched a Brazilian biker pay 180 American dollars instantly and drive away while we were stopped....)
First, they threaten that if you don't pay immediately, your motorcycle will not be let out of the country. Then if you say you'll deal with that later, they change the story and say you will have to come to the police station with them. Then when you say let's go to the police station now, they say you will have to wait until they finish at the checkpoint. What I observed with them, was that they give you back your documents, that way, you are choosing to stay and pay them, they are not withholding anything from you, so: As soon as they hand you back your license, insurance (they didn't even ask me for mine) and documents: CALL THEIR BLUFF, SAY YOU KNOW THE LAW, YOU WILL ONLY PAY A FINE AT A COURTHOUSE, NOT ON THE ROAD, AND BEGIN TO WALK AWAY. .....you'd think they would move the checkpoint around a bit to throw people off, but it's ALWAYS at the same KM marker......I have an Argentine friend that knows the guys - they are just three good ol' local boys -just beat cops - they make so much money off the scam, they'll just let you walk away if you are too much trouble for them and they'll focus on the next guy...... IF EVERYBODY REFUSES, THEY'LL STOP HASSLING FOREIGN MOTORCYCLES, IF EVERYBODY PAYS, THE GAME CONTINUES..... so kudos for letting them know that they're becoming famous.....hopefully they'll start to think twice....... |
These guys on the Ruta 14 checkpoint really asked a lot of questions about my helmet cam. "Is it on?" Yes. Is it video? Yes. How long can it record? 8 hours.
Worked like the old Jedi mind trick. You can go about your business, move along. :mchappy: |
Tailgate a truck!
So I'd just done this checkpoint on 24th march 2011 at about 1500h. My original plan was to camp before it and do it at 6 am or so. As I'd just left BA I was bound to hit the checkpoint with many hours of riding left. I picked up a big truck a few k before it and stuck right behind it all the way there. The lads stand in the middle of the road and didn't see me until I was past them! No time or money wasted. All I heard when i passed was Aaaaaaaaa.
Down further I was stopped n told I had to have a reflective x thing and that I had to pay 20 pesos while it isn't much it's still 100km of fuel. I was let on my way after a bit if polite arguing. I do feel sorry for the lad tho as he was only askin 20pesos and prob gets paid in peanuts! Listen to easyg. Thatwas my backup plan. Enjoy! In p Iguazu now!!! |
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2nd these.... Worked perfectly in many occasions.. |
I do not worry about corrupt cops anymore, never paid them anything.
A few days ago I've been asked to stop about 3 or 4 times going down that road, the cop just put 2 fingers on the side like a "please pull over", I just don't stop, I respond by a similar 2 fingers sign that say "hey hello dude" and keep going slowly without stopping, I look back in the mirror see what they do. They've never chased me!! It's very funny to watch, the cop look at me then do the same sign to the car behind, the car pulls over... |
I usually wave and honk, unless I'm bored, then I stop and have a few laughs with the guys while they try to get money from me. Dot worry about this kind of stuff, it not a big deal.
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I can't believe after all these stories and reports that they're still there doing their thing... Surely someone local in the right position must hear of all this and put an end to it.. It's one thing hearing about a vague checkpoint that something happened, and a whole different story hearing about the same exact km and the same 3 guys ripping tourists off...
I hope they get what's coming to them soon... |
Then where will be the adventure on this flat and boring road???
Well those things don’t work in that way down here… “Someone local in the right position” are doing the same in a big scale. Or if are good people are worry about important stuffs. Now at least you are warned, if you don’t get angry or impolite your experience will be just anecdotic. If tourist are not silly and don't pay they will get tired and quit to stop them… Just my 2 argie cents. Saludos |
La ruta
I was stopped in Entre Rios region earlier this year after crossing into argentina at frey bentos. When i say stopped.. my bike had a blocked vacume line from the tank. The police actually stopped organised me a utility vheicle to the nearest town, asked for my facebook and had a beer in town with me... all for nothing..
check out some of the images from iran motorcycle journey |
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It is better to have a few lines of Spanish memorized where you can tell the corrupt cop that you have heard stories about the corruption at this checkpoint. Another good idea, if you have a fancy camera, is to have it out and ready when you get to this checkpoint and start taking pictures of them when they stop you. Tell them that you are a journalist and are writing an article about the police in Argentina. |
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Will you, who can’t not distinguee a clutch cable from a throttle one, come to tell me in my own country that my advices are “horrible”? Why you don’t remember all of us all the misadventures you had with the police just for been stupidity impolite and arrogant? Nice advice yours recommending everybody to confront police saying they are corrupt and trying to take pictures showing fancy cameras. I have living here all my life passing through all that check points one or two times every year and many others more, I never had to pay a coin always being nice, correct, having my papers in order and discussing with respect if they want to fine me.... Very funny now that after your big misjourney ride come here as the master of the ultimate motorbike overlander to teach all of us... why you don’t already wrote a book to illuminate the world??? Your Top 3 Chapters could be: -How to get lost and get the CIA & FBI searching for you in the Darien Gap. -How to be ripped off by a cute Gringo Hunter in Buenos Aires. -How to be bad treated by a corrupt police in some shithole in South America. Please Gatogato, come back to the real world and try to learn something!!!! |
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Javier, it is clear to me that you can not take a little bit of criticism without becoming a fanatic. This checkpoint is a serious problem and you are doing the international motorcycle community a disservice by pretending otherwise and giving bad advice so you can protect Argentina's pride. The police at this checkpoint are trying to take advantage of foreign motorcyclists who are not familiar with Argentinian law. When you passed through with your Argentinian plates that is probably why they did not try to extort you. It is a lot more intimidating to have a police officer take your passport away from you in a foreign country and be told that you will be going to jail if you do not pay $400 US. I promise you that I have never been rude to a police officer in my life, but with these crooks on km 341 you need to be witty and make sure you know exactly how to call them out right in Spanish. You are right about how I will never know as much as you about motorcycles Javier. When I did my trip I was young and naive. The difference between me and you is that I have humility. If the same thing had happened to you in a foreign country, none of us would ever receive a warning because you would be too Proud to post about it. |
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