Hello, we are very happy to be home in Buenos Aires. Thanks for all the informative posts.

Understanding that individuals posting here might have various agendas, as originator of this thread, I hereby REQUEST that you either post data that helps take the mystery out of the process of a foreign tourist purchasing a motor vehicle in Argeintina or state your actual agenda regarding the reason you want to keep the correct information to yourself or in the hands of a very few....

In this information age, information is power. Earlier in this thread I have explained in great detail the relatively simple processes for a foreign tourist to legally purchase a brand new or used Argentine motor vehicle, and register it, in the foreign tourist name, in Argentina.

After reviewing the previous posts, if anyone has a specific question regarding this process, I will respond with documentation and /or expert opinion. Just ask, please don't attack me or the data I have spent two years collecting.

Intrepid, I have you on the radar, what is your agenda here? Do you want legal motor vehicle transfer processes in Argentina to remain a mystery, and if so for what purpose??? xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

xFiltrate, I can't thank you enough. I have been planning a SA tour for the summer of 09. The whole procedure of getting a bike in Argentina and taking it across the continent was mind boggling given the amount and variety of information around. Your post clarifies a lot of things.

Quick questions tho':

1. Which bike would you suggest for a SA trip? Something light but sturdy.
2. What bike would you suggest if I had a pillion?
3. What sort of money should I be looking to spend to buy these babies?
4. Can I buy the bike in Argentina and sell it in, say, Costa Rica? Wasn't planning on a circular route.

You are great man.

__________________
To ride at 140, you don't need horsepower. You need balls.

1974 Royal Enfield Standard 350cc
2008 Royal Enfield Machismo 500cc

My Life On Wheels...And Otherwise

Iceman, stay tuned, I have some new data being prepared by Argentine customs officials specifically for this thread. Might take a few weeks, but info directly from Argentine Officials (in writing) and translated into English...has long been needed.

1. Yes, light and sturdy and perhaps easy to find parts for, and blend in with locals ..... Elisa and I have done six South American countries, she rode a new Honda XR250 Tornado, kitted out with soft luggage and a tail rack created by Pato (via Motocare) in Buenos Aires.

I rode a new Honda NX400 Falcon. also kitted out by Pato with pannier racks, tail rack and extra battery (for CB radio) compartment and tool box. Both bikes were manufactured at the Honda Plant in Brazil, we purchased the bikes from a Honda dealer in Buenos Aires.

Elisa has just traded up to a new NX400. While the XR250 performed very well with no mechanical problems over 20 thousand K she felt a little more power and speed on the long stretches of Argentine highway would be better.

If you are considering Ruta 40 or the likes make sure you fashion some kind of bash plate.... You don't have to be British to have a bash plate, although the Brits seem to know all about them and all about panniers, just ask one.

Only mechanical problem I had was a worn out clutch. I was fully loaded with gear and I weigh a little less than 200 pounds. The Falcon (at about 130K dry weight) seemed to be geared just right for the soft sand and for those long lonely stretches of asphalt.

Neither of us are experts like Chris Scott who wrote "Adventure Motorcycling Handbook" 2005 edition...and I suggest you buy the book and read Choosing a Motorcycle chapter and review the top ten overlanders he suggests. Be sure and read the rest of the book too as it has been amazingly helpful throughout our travels.

2. I would NOT suggest the NX400 for two up on an (extended) more than a weekend ride, with gear...I would want a bigger more powerful bike if I was two up and also carrying gear.... I have never traveled with a pillion and gear on my NX400.... Elisa has her own bike.

3. NX400 Falcon sells new for $7,000.00 dollars US in Buenos Aires and the XR250 tornado is selling new for $5,000.00 dollars US in Buenos Aires.

4. As a foreign tourist you can certainly legally buy and sell an Argentine registered bike new or used in Argentina. See earlier in this thread. Leaving Argentina with an Argentine bike registered in your name might be problematic, see earlier in thread for one way to legally do it.... or stand by for direct commentary from Argentine officials. Hopefully within a week or two, but experience tells me it might be more than a month before a written response comes our way. We can always hope...

Thanks for the kind words, you and the others like you make it all worthwhile...xfiltrate buenas rutas

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

I am following this thread since i moved to BsAs in July this year.

Some things were unclear before i found this thread. Thank you for posting.

I am of course interested in having bike here with as least possible expenses whatever those might be.

Since i am still looking for job i have a lot of time to search web in regard to bikes (import/export, taxes, custom fees, paper work, etc.)

I hope this may be somewhat useful: AFIP - ADMINISTRACION FEDERAL DE INGRESOS PUBLICOS

__________________
The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page.

Eddy

There exists considerable scatter on your radar which is obviously affecting your ability as an effective navigator.
If the altitude is causing dizzy spells, iIsuggest that you climb down off your high horse.
What kind of a cowboy are you , anyway?

Your moderate state of paranoia is ,also, affecting your interpretation or intent of my earlier comments.

For the benefit of the other readers of this thread, I will re-iterate that bikers with specific circumstances ought to visit the ADAUNA (customs) at Plaza de Mayo in central Buenos Aires. It would be foolish to not seek out their help.My experience was most satisfying.

I am not a regular visitor to this site.

There is a chance, however, that during a period of idleness and acute curiosity that I may decide to re-vsit.
If I find that you have again thrown more of your surly remarks in my direction, I will get mean.

Bueno suerte, mi amigoes de la autopista.

Intrepid, your lack of perception is not my problem. All I am saying to you is:

If you found out anything, at all, regarding any of the topics discussed here, please post the information. I agree the aduana is the best source of information regarding several of these topics, and I , myself have submitted requests in writing to aduana officials. When I receive replies , I post the data here.

The basic problem seems to be finding accurate information. I am simply asking you to post any relavant information you may have, many of the readers of this thread are not in Argentina, do not speak Spanish and do not know who to contact in the aduana for the information they need.

The purpose of this thread is to provide the most accurate information available regarding topics addressed. Being on radar is a good thing, it means I am simply looking for more info from you, thanks xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Looking for Wayne, he is from Britain and arrived Buenos Aires several months ago via ship, with the V-Strom he is riding.

He has been in good com with me until about ten days ago. Last message was he was leaving Argentina after a good tour, except for one incident with loss of some gear, and heading for Uruguay to renew his temporary vehicle Import permit.

I believe he took the ferry to Uruguay, but not sure. He was to arrive back in Buenos Aires about 10 days ago and contact me. He has not contacted me.

He mentioned he had to return to Europe for a short visit, so indeed he may be there.

He has exceptional survival skills, is well kitted out and an experienced overlander. At this point I am more curious than worried. But, any news will be appreciated . thanks, xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Wow, Vlades (a hubber) has posted some very helpful information IN ENGLISH from AFIP, the Argentine agency responsible for providing information regarding the following. Out of gratitude I have copied and posted here the data pertaining to this thread.

Or you can go to
AFIP - ADMINISTRACION FEDERAL DE INGRESOS PUBLICOS

as suggested by Vlades.

Well done Vlades. And a question for you. As I understand the Mercosur countries are Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile.

But, in some discussions I have had with 2 local vehicle insurance agencies, Bolivia and Chile are sometimes not considered Mercosur for insurance purposes, do you have any info on the countries AFIP defines as Mercosur?

The information directly from AfIP can be copied and carried along ( spanish version might be preferred) and exhibited to border officials and police.

Now for my attempt at additional interpretation:

1) note below the regulations are the same for "residents and tourists"

2) as a "tourist" you will need documents a) through f) (listed below) to circulate a motorcycle purchased in Argentina in the other MERCOSUR countries.

WHAT EXACTLY IS.... a) Valid identity to run in MERCOSUR countries?

I suppose it could be a foreign passport, my reasoning is that c) requires
"Document that certifies your tourist status by a migratory authority. "

Therefore, unless the tourist card for the country other than country of purchase of the motorcycle is referenced here, this might be interpreted to mean a "tourist" with passport would satisfy document requirements a) and c). This is exactly the question I posed to government officials here and have yet to receive a response.

3) as for the confusing requirement to "inscribe" title numbers on the windows of the vehicle, since motorcycles do not have windows, it is my opinion that the inscription of title numbers is not necessary for motorcycles.

If anyone can help interpret the following with actual experience regarding this issue, please post here. thanks xfiltrate


Vehicles circulation

VEHICLES REGIME - General Resolution No. 1419/03

Mr./ Mrs. Resident / Tourist,

If you plan to travel to countries belonging to the MERCOSUR, you must follow the current regulations (General Resolution No. 1419/03) to avoid delays or inconveniences. When vehicles duly registered in the MERCOSUR, whether cars, motorcycles, trailers, motor homes and boats circulate in a Country Party different from the one of the vehicle’s registration, the driver shall have the following documents:

a) Valid Identity Card to run in the MERCOSUR.
b) Driving license.
c) Document that certifies your tourist status by a migratory authority.
d) Authorization through a public instrument to drive the vehicle, in case its owner is not driving. In the case of vehicles for private use, they can be driven in each party country by the spouse or relatives of the owner, up to second degree of consanguinity, without the need of explicit authorization as long as they are tourists and the bond is evidenced with the pertinent documents. e) Title or other official document evidencing the vehicle’s proprietorship.
f) Valid insurance voucher within the MERCOSUR; before making any trip you should contact the Insurance Company.

WARNING:
“If it is a rented vehicle, the documents mentioned in items d), e) and f) shall be replaced by the Authorization to run in the MERCOSUR (ACM), granted by the leasing company."

The vehicles from the Argentine Republic registered before the Dirección Nacional de los Registros Nacionales de la Propiedad del Automotor y de Créditos Prendarios, shall have the title numbers recorded, at least, in the front and rear windshield, and, in those vehicles that have SIX (6) or more panes, in the biggest side panes . When the number of panes is fewer than SIX (6) the recording of numbers shall be made in all of them.

For further information:


Center of Telephonic Information: 0810-999-AFIP (2347)


Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.
Customs counters located in the pre-boarding area.
Argentine diplomatic offices abroad.
AFIP - ADMINISTRACION FEDERAL DE INGRESOS PUBLICOS

Cell phones

Regarding the entry of mobile phones in the accompanied luggage, even when taxes must be paid or not, such entry must be made completing all fields under the forms OM-2087/G1 (Route by air or sea), and OM-2087/G2 (Route waterway or by land), which must be dully audited by the customs service.

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Full members now include Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, and (contigent on ratification by the other members) Venezuela; Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru are associate members.
More here Mercosur – FREE Mercosur Information | Encyclopedia.com: Facts, Pictures, Information!

Ed That is why insurances are not easy to do for Bolivia,Chile and Peru.
ATM does this at extra cost.

Now to Vladas last post(reposted on Javier´s tread from 2004) does not add any new information.When first read is even more confusing!

Karl

__________________
http://vientoderipio.blogspot.com/
America is a nice continent,not a country.All people who lives in this continent are americans.Discover it in peace!

Karl, AFIP might have a definition of MERCOSUR different from that described
at : Mercosur – FREE Mercosur Information | Encyclopedia.com: Facts, Pictures, Information!

My question was not for the official list of the official status of MERCOSUR countries. My question is what countries does AFIP consider MERCOSUR in terms of AFIPs General Resolution No. 1419/03?

And yes Karl I agree with you that the recent post of AFIPs regulation is confusing. My goal is to stop all the confusion and agency double talk for the purpose of providing the readers of this thread accurate and easy to understand information.

To this end I have made written request for an interpretation of the all Argentine regulations regarding riding into, taking the ferry, or flying to another country by a "tourist" with his privately owned Argentine registered motorcycle.

To date my questions to the aduana (customs at the border) have gone unanswered. I am now going to make an appointment with AFIP at the highest level and take the confusion out of AFIPs General Resolution No. 1419/03 regarding the circulation of Argentine vehicles.

These questions have gone unanswered for too many years...There must be some stop on releasing the actual regulations in an easily understood manner. I will find out what the stop is and I will bring a conclusion to the confusion. I have noted, through personal experience and observation, that some have taken advantage of this confusing regulation for personal gain. This includes a small number of officials at a few borders. but I also believe the regulation is just as confusing to some border officials.

I have always applauded the very significant contributions made by Javier in the past and continuing toward the resolution of this problem and for all the help he has extended to motorcyclists riding South America.

As an afterthought, I welcome here any ideas that might help clean up the corruption on Ruta 14. (See "Corrupt Police in Argentina. Ruta 14 Kilometer No. 341" Thread) I believe we need a well organized effort with a workable strategy so that bribes are no longer demanded by officials or those "pretending" to be officials at certain kilometers along Ruta 14. Ideas welcome. xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Hi folks, this might be of interest. There has been established "temporary export " papers for vehicles/motorcycles purchased and registered in Argentina.

These forms are supposed to be available at all border crossings and are issued to Argentine citizens and legal foreign (temporary or permanent) residents of Argentina.

But, what about foreign motor tourists who have legally purchased a vehicle or motorcycle in Argentina? Some, mostly those who have secured a "domocilio" in Argentina (see earlier in this thread) have been issued temporary export permits, others have not and some, on the power of their own words, have been issued a temporary export permit. This , mostly upon exiting Argentina's border with Chile. Forget Bolivia.

The temporary export permit is a signed promise that the vehicle/motorcycle will return to Argentina within a specified number of months, and not sold internationally.

In order to facilitate this process, a survey needs to be done to discover the potential number of foreign tourists who want and can afford to purchase motorcycles or vehicles in Argentina if the motorcycle /vehicle would be issued a temporary export permit.

If the survey indicates that more than 100 foreign tourists,( First and Last name/Nationality/motorcycle/vehicle description and estimated month and year of purchase) would purchase a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina if issued a Temporary Export Permit, I have a "politico" who is willing to present legislation that would augment current "confusing" legislation, and would "clarify," beyond doubt the fact that a foreign motor tourist, having purchased and registered a motorcycle/vehicle in Argentina will be issued a Temporary Export Permit.

Seems it is up to us now, after all we are those will will benefit form this clarification.

Please post your screen name here/give your web site, and if needed, I will send a private message to you requesting your real name.

This might be fun! I might even testify before the Argentine Congress, on your behalf, and so might several representatives of the motor industry and Automobile and Touring clubs here. Tell your friends and to to make all this real, a new (0 kilometers) 2009 Honda Falcon NX 400 duel purpose motorcycle, one year or 12,000 K warrantee (designed by Honda for touring South America, parts and service readily available) can be purchased in Buenos Aires for less than $7,000.00 US dollars. After your South American tour, you can legally park your motorcycle in Argentina indefinitely, or legally sell it on the very brisk and very over priced used motorcycle market in Argentina. Peso is currently about $3.40 to one US dollar.

Thanks xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

xfiltrate: Thanks for taking the time to chronicle the ownership problems for the tourist.

Thanks to you Mikenlapaz, I try to look at this thread as a very challenging game, with barriers between me and my goals of providing accurate and up to date data for international over landers,

I just received a private message from Peer. Perhaps my answer to his questions will be helpful to others.


Hi Peer, Where did you purchase the bike and where is the bike currently registered? Is it now registered in the same country the buyer will register it in?

You mentioned "imported bike" so I assume yours is, but If you purchased the bike in Argentina, be sure to read this thread regarding foreign tourists crossing out of Argentina with an Argentine registered bike.

On the other hand, if the bike is registered in another country and you had the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit issued to you upon arrival, only you and whoever else is on the foreign title can exit Argentina with the bike. And , more importantly the bike cannot have overstayed the number of months granted by the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit. Someone will pay big bucks as a fine if the bike has overstayed its' permit.

When the buyer registers your bike in his name it will be with a different title number and different plate, I assume, each of these might cause problems for him if trying to exit Argentina. The title # is not so important, but the bike must the same exact license plate for which the Temporary Vehicle Import Title was issued, otherwise, the bike might be impounded.

The buyer will not be able to exit, with the bike, unless he, himself, is listed with you (the primary person named on the Temporary vehicle Import permit) on the title. Rather then transfer title, I would keep the same title and have his name added as co - owner of the bike. I am not absolutely certain this will work, but I do know that even if he is listed as "additional rider" on the TVIP, only the owner of the bike and the person named on the TVIP can exit the country with the bike. OF COURSE, LEGALLY YOU MIGHT STILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM AN ACCIDENT, I WOULD INSIST THAT THE BUYER SECURES PROPER INSURANCE TO COVER YOU BOTH. THIS MIGHT REQUIRE HIM HAVING COPIES OF YOUR PASSPORT AND DRIVING PERMITS.

Since you might be in (Germany?) I assume you and the buyer could go together to motor vehicles Dept and have his name included on your title. careful that a new plate is not issued, keep a copy of the old title in case the question of title # comes up at the border.

With his name being on the title and him being listed as additonal rider on the TVIP, he has a good chance of being allowed exit from Argentina with the bike.

Please send more details regarding where the bike is registered and if there exists the possibility to simply include the buyers name, with your name, on the title?

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Hello over landers, anyone who would like to be able to legally exit Argentina with a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle, that they purchased in Argentina, please answer my brief survey: thanks

In order to facilitate this process, a survey needs to be done to discover the potential number of foreign tourists who want and can afford to purchase motorcycles or vehicles in Argentina if the motorcycle /vehicle would be issued a temporary EXPORT permit.

If the survey indicates that more than 100 FOREIGN TOURISTS...

( SCREEN NAME/Nationality/motorcycle/vehicle description and estimated month and year of purchase)

......would purchase a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina if issued a Temporary Export Permit, I have a "politico" who is willing to present legislation that would augment current "confusing" legislation, and would "clarify," beyond doubt the fact that a foreign motor tourist, having purchased and registered a motorcycle/vehicle in Argentina will be issued a Temporary EXPORT Permit.

Seems it is up to us now, after all we are those will will benefit form this clarification.

Please post your screen name here/give your web site, and if needed, I will send a private message to you requesting your real name.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________

Here are the answers to e-mail inquiries I have received recently:

Hi, i will answer your questions regarding Temporary Vehicle Import Permits issued to foreign tourists.

Yes, generally speaking, you are correct, officials here limit the stay of your motorcycle to 8 months, of course if you enter and then exit the country and enter again, you will be issued another TVIP for the following 8 months.

If you make arrangements with a despachante (import broker) he/she can renew your TVIP in Buenos Aires, if done before the expiration of the original 8 months. This may require having an official inspect the vin number on the bike. It can be done only with advance preparations, and might be subject to changes in the law or the whims of the officials.

I will double check on this and fine out current fees charged by the officials and current fee for the despanchante, if you desire.

In one case, I was able to have renewed an "expired" TVIP, but it cost cost to $600.00 dollars US in fines and $100.00 to the despachante, and it was a struggle.

If you have 2 bikes and both bikes are foreign registered, and both of you return to Argentina before the expiration date... you can get an extension (in person) at the port in Buenos Aires... for very little or no cost, and with no problems.... Or, you can simply exit to Uruguay and then re-enter Argentina and have another 8 month TVIP issued. If both foreign registered bikes are in both names only one has to return to get the extension for both bikes.

I have heard varying reports regarding the length of time TVIP are issued for Uruguay. Therefore, I cannot advise here.

I do not understand what you mean by "someone to take accountability to get on a plane?" If you are asking if you can legally leave the country (Argentina) without your foreign registered bikes/bike the answer is YES.

Many foreign tourists leave their foreign registered vehicles/bikes here, and as long as the vehicle/bike does not out stay the 8 month TVIP limit, you will have no problem.

If you buy new or used in Argentina, register the bike in your name (foreign tourist), the bike can legally stay in Argentina forever.

I do not know if Uruguay allows a foreign tourist who entered Uruguay with a vehicle/bike allows the foreign tourist to exit Uruguay without the vehicle/bike or not.

Hope this helps, please keep me posted when you discover accurate info on Uruguay. thanks Ed

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

The following info may be helpful to anyone wanting to buy a foreign registered motorcycle in Argentina..., a question has been raised regarding the purchase of a foreign registered motorcycle (Canada) by a foreign tourist in Argentina.

NOTICE: Anyone wanting to purchase a new or used motorcycle in Argentina, private message me with your screen name, description of bike, including estimated purchase price, potential date of purchase, and a statement that you wish to be able to legally exit and re-enter Argentina, for a tour of other South American countries with your Argentine registered motorcycle with a TEMPORARY VEHICLE EXPORT PERMIT.

If and when I have 100 people, I will present the data to a local politician, willing to create legislation clarifying existing laws. The end result might well be to enable a foreign tourist purchasing a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle, to be able to legally exit and return to Argentina with a TEMPORARY VEHICLE EXPORT PERMIT.

A big Thank You to those who have already responded. xfiltrate

Now on to the topic.....

1. What country will transfer the title of the bike from the seller's name to your name?

At first blush, obtaining a Canadian title in your name , would be the way to go, but if a new Canadian license plate is issued and the new title ID # does not match the information on the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit obtained by the seller when he entered the country (ARGENTINA), and your documents are checked by a routine police stop or if you attempt to exit Argentina, you will run the very real risk of having the bike impounded.

Some countries will do vehicle title transfers without seller and buyer and the bike appearing physically, for the transfer, others will not. I do not know if Canada will transfer a motor vehicle title from the seller's name to your name without both of you appearing and/or the bike in Canada at the Motor Vehicle agency there. Anyone know about this? Please post.

*The law here is to prevent foreigners from entering with a foreign registered motor vehicle and selling it in Argentina. The reason for this law is to protect the motorcycle industry here from having to complete with imported bikes for which import taxes have not been collected, but a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit, with a very specific date before which the registered owner of the bike must (himself) with the bike must exit argentina.

2. Did the seller enter the bike into Argentina on a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit? What is the expiration date on that permit? If the seller's TVIP is expired, the bike might be impounded if this fact comes to the attention of the police. To extend the TVIP, the seller must present himself at Motor Vehicles here, pay and pay a fee, if the TVIP is expired, the seller must pay a huge fine, about $500.00 US dollars (depending on factors unknown to me) ) to obtain an extension.

3. Are you planning to have the bike titled in *Argentina? If so, Please see (*) directly above.

Therefore, if you were able to do a Title transfer from the seller, with Canadian title, to you on an Argentine title, you would have to pay import tax and I am not absolutely sure, but it has been reported to me that the import tax could be the amount determined as the value of the bike by customs here, or some multiple thereof.... Also, this process might take one to three months, during which time the bike would not be legal on the streets.

Considering the above, I would purchase a used bike here that is registered here. This is a relatively simply process as you know by reading my posts, read about Jeff Condon (GlobeBuster's guide) as he purchased an Argentine registered Citroen 3cv as a foreign tourist and had the Argentine title transferred to his name.

Hope this helps, please give me the data I need and I will further advise. thanks and good luck. xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com