Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > SOUTH AMERICA
SOUTH AMERICA Topics specific to South America only.
Photo by Daniel Rintz, Himba children, Namibia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

Photo by Daniel Rintz,
Himba children, Namibia



Like Tree4Likes
  • 2 Post By chris
  • 2 Post By mika

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31 May 2017
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 7
Need an absolut answer please: can i cross borders with bike docs not on my name

Hello, i am the guy who did what you wont do, because you wanna get a moto and actually be able to ride it around the mainland. (bought another travelers bike for cheap) Although, this is the school of life, and im happy for every problem i got, because i simpley like growing.

Any way, i need your halp with a straight and absolut answer. Im in brasil now (rj/sp), the bike has a colombian plate and the temporary permit here is good for more 20 days. no option for extantion or anything else because the papers are not on my name and the first owner, the seller, he left the south amrica land already. So, me my self, i have more visa time here, but the bike should leave brasils border in 20 days. Now, i have been told once already by a travler, that countries dosnt let you in with an ownership that is not on your name.

But What i have now is a ownership original doc of the bike and a contract with this name on my name. The contract was stamped and declared by an official declaration (declaração) in sao paulo after Consulting with the local police on the situation i was into. That Declaration will probebly halp me inside brasil with a local police, but i dont know what is up in the longer trem, in time and space. So the question left now is:

i need to get to colombia, the official homeland of the bike, and get my docs well, maybe. Now, is it possible and i should try to cross to bolivia for exemple (dont have time to get to peru [4000km/20days/new rider] and venezuela is not verry possible for an israeli passport holder) and then cross to peru and finally get to colombia successfully, or i should sale the bike to a farmer asap and get some of my money back for at least?

Thank you for your time and my be all ride are way to the absolut good, Namaste
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2 Jun 2017
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 19
No absolute answer.

Hi Freedombird, I don't think you will get an absolute answer to your question on this forum. Whether you can cross a border with your current paperwork will depend very much on the officials you meet at the border. Is he in a good mood? Do you look trustworthy? Some will let you go. Others may not.
A current thread that you may find interesting is.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ing-documents- 90906

Looks like the link doesn't work.
The tread is titled:

a-question-morality-forging-documents

Last edited by Mogy; 2 Jun 2017 at 16:42. Reason: Link doesn't work
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2 Jun 2017
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 943
Facts, just the facts

Freedombird,

Only YOU can learn the facts and make a decision, no one can make your decision for you.

There is some merit to what Mogy has posted about proper documentation exiting and entering South American countries.

Sometimes exceptions granted at borders by border officials, but this is very rare.
As a 12 year permanent foreign resident of Argentina who has ridden 55,000 K through 8 South American countries, finding a forgiving border agent willing to overlook the law is very difficult. His/her job may be threatened and his family relies on his/her for support. So you must consider if you are willing to put a person's job on the line so you can have some fun.

According to your post, you have contacted the local authority and are legal (maybe) to circulate in Brazil for 20 days - till June 20th or so.

Here are the facts:

1. If the insurance policy on the bike remains in the name of the legal owner, it might be valid as long as the bike has a valid TVIP (temporary vehicle import permit) issued upon entry to Brazil. But, you riding the bike may or may not be covered. Once the bike is being ridden illegally, the insurance becomes null and void and the original owner, you or anyone else riding the bike has no valid insurance. Insurance in mandatory in MERCOSUR countries. Brazil, Uruguay, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile etc
Most countries will confiscate the bike and charge the rider with an offense.

2. If you are involved in an accident with personal injury or substantial property damage without valid insurance you will be arrested until a judge determines cause and liabilities and without an insurance company to provide an attorney and bail money you will stay in jail. South American courts are notoriously slow - you could be in jail for months even years.
The South American jails are horrible - you have little or no human rights! I worked for the IRC International Red Cross for 3 years visiting foreigners in Mexican jails - many in jail because of accidents.

I hope the above facts help you make your decision. Remember for any insurance to be valid the bike must be operating legally in the country where the accident occurred. Many South American insurance companies sell insurance policies - knowing full well the company will never have to pay out any money because the small print on the policy includes the fact that the bike/vehicle is being operated legally.

Hope this helps you make your decision.

xfiltrate Eat, Drink and BE Careful
__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2 Jun 2017
chris's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: GOC
Posts: 3,326
I believe the guy that sold you the bike said this http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ur-small-91886

What did he advise you? He seems a friendly soul ;-) and would have put your mind at rest, no?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2 Jun 2017
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Samaipata / Bolivia
Posts: 888
traveling

Quote:
and im happy for every problem i got, because i simpley like growing.
... so solve the problem yourself, and dont let others here try solve it for you, this is the only way to grow up.



mika
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 3 Jun 2017
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 943
Growing up?

Perhaps my ideals are a bit dated, but Mika, really is not taking responsibility not a major part of "growing up" I have reviewed your materials at the referenced thread and have found them very wanting.

Look, if someone miscalculated and needs to drop the liability of a foreign registered bike onto another "tourist" lap fine, just let them say that to the tourist out front and not try to disguise it in "poders" and fly by night legalese.

As long as the party who had not the vision to understand that selling a foreign registered bike - by a tourist - to another tourist in a MERCOSUR country is illegal and not a viable answer to lack of planning - and informs the buyer of this fact, I have no problem - for then the buyer understands the liability he/she is taking on.

My problem is with [those who tell others that] the sale of a foreign registered bike in a MERCOSUR country is legal - IT IS NOT and therfore any insurance attached to that bike is null and void.

Why not just say this out front. If you do and the buyer still wants to buy I have no problem with that.

Again, I am only opposed to misrepresentations of TVIP law and illegal way arounds that end unsuspecting buyers in South American jails.

xfiltrate
__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Last edited by markharf; 7 Jun 2017 at 21:31.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 6 Jun 2017
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NSW Australia - but never there
Posts: 1,235
Chris, main problem is that each time [someone] does it just once and then flies home with the sale price in his pocket so naming is a bit of a waste of time

My vehicle is for sale and this forms part of the information pack

Quote:
Caveat Emptor - BUYER BEWARE
Worth repeating
Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware
Because there is a steady, but thankfully small stream of people getting into trouble with their new purchase, I'm going to play Devils Advocate and post this on every "For Sale" section on this and every other forum I can find.
Directed primarily at the Americas situation, I imagine it will also be applicable all over the world.
Be very aware that buying a foreign-registered car from a foreigner in any country and/or state other than that of original registration is potentially a very bad move unless you fully understand the situation and fully understand the risks.
Yes, lots of people do it and I know it can be done, but there are cases where people have been stopped at the border and other cases where people have had their vehicles confiscated for irregular ownership transfer even after several successful border crossings.
and it goes on for a page or so listing many of the things that go wrong and providing solutions for them. Even then I suspect most people figure things out with their heart rather than their head because they blithely enter into arrangements that they would never even consider back home.
__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Last edited by markharf; 7 Jun 2017 at 21:28.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7 Jun 2017
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 943
Names?

[A]s eloquently stated by Tony LEE:

"most people figure things out with their heart rather than their head because they blithely enter into arrangements that they would never even consider back home "

and, I will add here....the sale of a foreign registered bike in a MERCOSUR country is [not] legal....therfore any insurance attached to that bike is null and void."

Yes, I did nationalize a foreign registered motorcycle in Argentina as allowed by Argentine law, but only after I became a permanent foreign resident of Argentina.

My permanent foreign resident status took me three years to acquire and was restricted to nationalize one vehicle within six months from the date my residence status was awarded.

As a temporary foreign resident (for three years) I could not nationalize a foreign vehicle.

And, as you might expect I paid 80% of the Blue Book value of the bike as an import fee. I have since learned there are legal way arounds the import fee for permanent foreign residents.
So there is a legal way to nationalize a foreign registered bike and then one can legally sell it in Argentina.

xfiltrate
__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Last edited by markharf; 7 Jun 2017 at 21:27.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 7 Jun 2017
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 943
Equalmente

[A]attorneys...might want to consult with their clients regarding the legalities of their title transfers.

xfiltrate
__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com

Last edited by markharf; 7 Jun 2017 at 21:24.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7 Jun 2017
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 3,898
I'm going to edit this thread a bit in hopes its more informative elements can remain for viewing. Some of the previous threads on this topic have devolved rapidly into name-calling and other attacks, and I'm hoping that can be avoided here.

Editing selectively takes time and is irritating. It's far easier to remove posts entirely, and easier still to remove whole threads.

Here's my suggestion for those posting: Address the question at hand. Do so succinctly, without excess verbiage, inflammatory terms, or meandering references to the various offenses of other people. If unable to do this, refrain from posting.

Thanks.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 7 Jun 2017
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 943
Roger that Houston

Markharf:

Question at hand: Editing

Comment: Excellent

Might have come sooner.

xfiltrate
__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying Used Bike in Santiago Chile lachy SOUTH AMERICA 187 5 Dec 2023 13:53
Buying a bike in SE Asia that can be taken accross borders Phil TK West and South Asia 75 18 Aug 2015 13:24
Looking for some help in getting started TotalTomination SOUTH AMERICA 20 30 Oct 2009 17:02
Transfering Title In Buenos Aires kwelfl SOUTH AMERICA 7 28 Dec 2008 15:06

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:27.