Peru: lost the certificado de internamiento temporal

[Tommy_boy_31]

I recently bought a bike in Lima, it is registered in California. Unfortunately, the 'certificado de internamiento temporal' (the visa of the bike) got lost when the ex-owner sent me all the papers. So I have the certificate of title that proves that I am the owner, and the contract of transfer signed by a lawyer. I am planning to ride to Bolivia soon and cross the border in Copacabana and I wonder if I am going to be in trouble.
A friend of mine called Aduana, vehicle registration office or something like that, and they said that it was not possible for the ex-owner to sell the bike. But it was possible for the ex-owner to send me an official document signed by a lawyer saying that he allows me to leave Peru with his bike. This document is to be sent by mail and it would take a couple of weeks. The other problem is because I don't have this certificado de internamiento temporal, i dont know by when i have to be out, but I believe its more or less in 2 weeks.
I am thinking about riding to Copacabana, showing that i am the owner and that i lost the certificado de internamiento temporal, and using a bit of US dollars. Anyone had a similar experience recently?

[Tony LEE]

Rather frowned upon for a foreigner to sell a foreign vehicle to another foreigner so subterfuge is used to get around the law.
eg never produce a bill of sale dated while the vehicle was in the country because that just proves illegal act.. Use a poder plus the original unexpired TIP to get out of the country and then use new documents and plates to get into the next country. TIP usually has name and passport and license plate number on them, but often they don't bother checking on exit. The TIPs are computerised so I guess if claim it lost they will just print out another one and then depends if they start checking all the details to make sure everything is OK.

Not wishing to alarm you unduly, but it is fairly widely known, or at least rumoured, that Peru doesn't mess around arguing about expired TIPs, it just confiscates your vehicle even for one day late. Maybe urban myth?

The Peru aduana at Copocana was so badly hungover from his sister's birthday party that he couldn't fill out our form straight and had 4 goes to get it error free. Maybe he has lots of sisters and you will get lucky

[BruceP]

Originally Posted by Tommy_boy_31

I recently bought a bike in Lima, it is registered in California. Unfortunately, the 'certificado de internamiento temporal' (the visa of the bike) got lost when the ex-owner sent me all the papers. So I have the certificate of title that proves that I am the owner, and the contract of transfer signed by a lawyer. I am planning to ride to Bolivia soon and cross the border in Copacabana and I wonder if I am going to be in trouble.
A friend of mine called Aduana, vehicle registration office or something like that, and they said that it was not possible for the ex-owner to sell the bike. But it was possible for the ex-owner to send me an official document signed by a lawyer saying that he allows me to leave Peru with his bike. This document is to be sent by mail and it would take a couple of weeks. The other problem is because I don't have this certificado de internamiento temporal, i dont know by when i have to be out, but I believe its more or less in 2 weeks.
I am thinking about riding to Copacabana, showing that i am the owner and that i lost the certificado de internamiento temporal, and using a bit of US dollars. Anyone had a similar experience recently?

To follow on from Tony Lee.

Dollars or hints do not always work

HU Traveller Two Pegs to Patagonia's Ride Tale

We have also stayed with a customs officer in Peru, back in 2011, and he is adamant they are winning against corruption.

I'd suggest selling the bike to a local and finding something a bit more legal.

Buy, YMMV :-)

[Peter Bodtke]

It's no myth, Peruvian aduana will confiscate your beloved motorcycle if you are one day over the TVIP expiration date. A friend over stayed the TVIP by one day and lost his bike this spring. He hired a lawyer in Puno, hung out for a couple of weeks, no luck. Peruvian law is very clear and strictly enforced.

On the other hand, I meet two Mexican riders in Copacabana, Bolivia, with a wild story. One of their bikes had been stored in Peru for months and months. When they went to leave Peru the aduana officials said the bike was subject to seizure. The Mexicans did some fast talking. Here where it helps to be fluent in Spanish and know how much you can bend the rules. They told aduana they would return to Lima and straighten everything out, turned around and got out of the border area pretty quick. I don't know the details, but somehow they found a guide and crossed into Bolivia under starlight. Next they had the good fortune to meet a guy in Copacabana who knew a guy on the Bolivian side of the border... Long story short, they got papered in Bolivia, without officially leaving Peru.

Good luck getting your bike out of Peru. Don't waste an extra day. I always wondered if you can change license plates between borders and use your title when entering the next country... Let us know how is works out for you.

[chris]

A few months ago I crossed from Bolivia to Peru at Copacabana. The Peruvian Aduana man was fishing for a bribe, despite all my papers being in order. I played the usual dumb gringo and he eventually gave up trying to explain that he had no money for his lunch.

In order to get past the barrier I had to open and close it myself (it was bloody heavy!). There was no Peruvian official in the street. Maybe you can do the same?

FWIW the Bolivians did a visual inspection of the vehicle chassis number and numberplate and compared it to what's in the vehicle paperwork to ensure they match. On all the entries/exits into and out of Bolivia. Bol to/from Chile at 2 different borders, Bol to/from Peru and Bol to/from Argentina.

[Tony LEE]

We have done the plate and papers swap a couple of times. Problem is many borders are colocated, so there is no opportunity, Still plenty left though

[chris]

Originally Posted by Tony LEE

We have done the plate and papers swap a couple of times. Problem is many borders are colocated, so there is no opportunity, Still plenty left though

For info to the OP. At Copacabana: the border posts are close (+/- 200 meters), but out of sight of each other.

[Tommy_boy_31]

Thanks for your responses! I am planning to be in Copacabana a few days before the expiration of the permit. If I have problems, I will go and discuss with the aduana in Puno. If I still have problems, do you think I would have more chances trying to cross the Chilean border? Or same issues?

[chris]

Originally Posted by Tommy_boy_31

Thanks for your responses! I am planning to be in Copacabana a few days before the expiration of the permit. If I have problems, I will go and discuss with the aduana in Puno. If I still have problems, do you think I would have more chances trying to cross the Chilean border? Or same issues?

In my (recent) experience:

Peru border with Chile near Arica: Very officious, verging on the anally retentive.

Copacabana border: More casual, possible opportunity to pay a "fine" or just sneak through, if you're observant/have your wits about you. However if you get caught, don't say I said so. I will deny I ever wrote this post. I'll claim I was hacked

[Motos_del_Perú]

Hi Tommy_boy_31, I think that you need lucky to cross the border.

Take the recomendation about that you must be fast if customs want to take your bike. Escape and run with the bike from the office, and then lets think about the next step.

If you need time to "fix" the papers with the previous owner, we can storage your bike in the shop. Now we have four bikes for storage.

Tell me if you need anything in Perú, maybe I can assist you from Lima. My phone is 993464991 (local number) and my email is fmiranda@motosdelperu.com

Regards.

[Tommy_boy_31]

Hola Everyone,
I am through to Bolivia! It took me 2 or 3 hours negotiations, I had to wait for everyone to be gone so they could shut the door of the aduana house and I gave them 150usd and they could make it legal on their system. I however do not recommend anyone to do it this way. They also told me that if I had come 3 days later, they would have taken the bike. I feel I am lucky and I would not go through this again.
However, if you have no other options (if the permit of the bike has expired, for example):
1) Make sure you park before the gate, walk to the immigration, get your passport stamped, as usual,
2) Once they told me I could go, I just drove and noone checked anything until I got to the Bolivian border. The Peruvian gate is a chain and you can drive around or wait for a bus to drive through and just follow him naturally. Of course you cannot ever go back to Peru with the bike because their system will show that the bike is still in Peru.
3) When you get to the Bolivian gate, you just have to show your property title, an official document from where the bike is registered, with chassis number, engine number, brand, make, colour, all this sh*t. As I said, I don't recommend it, but you can easily make a fake one.
4) I have been told another way, even easier, but I have not tried myself. Some cyclists told me it is possible to cross the border from Peru to Bolivia (and the other way too) on the other side of the lake Titicaca (via Putina, Tilali, Puerto Acosta). I have been told there is no control there, you are then required to get yourself and the bike stamped at the Immigration (Puno in Peru, not sure where in Bolivia). Anyone been through this way?

[chris]

Originally Posted by Tommy_boy_31

Hola Everyone,
I am through to Bolivia! It took me 2 or 3 hours negotiations, I had to wait for everyone to be gone so they could shut the door of the aduana house and I gave them 150usd and they could make it legal on their system. I however do not recommend anyone to do it this way. They also told me that if I had come 3 days later, they would have taken the bike. I feel I am lucky and I would not go through this again.
However, if you have no other options (if the permit of the bike has expired, for example):
1) Make sure you park before the gate, walk to the immigration, get your passport stamped, as usual,
2) Once they told me I could go, I just drove and noone checked anything until I got to the Bolivian border. The Peruvian gate is a chain and you can drive around or wait for a bus to drive through and just follow him naturally. Of course you cannot ever go back to Peru with the bike because their system will show that the bike is still in Peru.
3) When you get to the Bolivian gate, you just have to show your property title, an official document from where the bike is registered, with chassis number, engine number, brand, make, colour, all this sh*t. As I said, I don't recommend it, but you can easily make a fake one.
4) I have been told another way, even easier, but I have not tried myself. Some cyclists told me it is possible to cross the border from Peru to Bolivia (and the other way too) on the other side of the lake Titicaca (via Putina, Tilali, Puerto Acosta). I have been told there is no control there, you are then required to get yourself and the bike stamped at the Immigration (Puno in Peru, not sure where in Bolivia). Anyone been through this way?

So pretty much what people here on the HUBB advise you, except you could have saved 150 bucks by opening and closing the Peru barrier yourself.

[Tommy_boy_31]

Yes but doing that I would not be able to go back to Peru with the bike.