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  #1  
Old 12 Aug 2008
aghbalouramlia
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A tourist was declared died in the piste b/w Fougani village and Zagoura

Hello,It is a bad news!!!
A tourist woman was declared died last Sunday in the pist b/w villag Fougani and Zagoura.The reason is that the couple has got a problem with their 4x4 in a sandy place called in berber Bokashba.The couple did not take enough water with them.The man came to fougani village to tell the local people about his problem,and when they go back to the car ,they found his wife died bc she is thirsty.We advice tourists taking that piste to take enough water ,and if they do not know the piste clearly , it is good to take someone with them .
The temperature goes up to 53 C° during the day in this area.
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  #2  
Old 13 Aug 2008
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Hello aghbalouramlia,

could You please explain a little bit more about what has happened?

- where they come from (Germany, France etc ...)
- how long the woman stayed in the car till her friend/husband come back
- was there really nothing to drink in the car
- was it the couples car or was it a rent one
- what car was it, was it well equipped and what happened to the car
- what was the problem with the 4x4
- do You have coordinates from Bokashba or a better discription where it is
- how the man comes back to Fougani

So all is a little bit mysterious and nothing is to found in moroccan newspaper, it would be good to give more answers.

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Ulrich
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  #3  
Old 16 Aug 2008
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Hello aghbalouramlia,

no answer is also an answer. Nowhere is something to read about that incident. Also in moroccen forums, where I have posted it, are no answers.

I think, Your posting is a fake.

Regards

Ulrich
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  #4  
Old 16 Aug 2008
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@ Ulrich,

Steady... just because aghbalouramlia has not answered yet (it's only 3 days since you posted) doesn't mean he's making it all up! He might be away or his internet connection is down or whatever...

Anyway, just because there are no answers to your questions does not mean it didn't happen. Relax...

Micha
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  #5  
Old 18 Aug 2008
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It is not such a surprise that nothing is written in the moroccan newspapers. Such news are just not published in Morocco. I talked to another local person and he confirmed the death, but also with no more facts.
I think there must be more to it. Nobody dies of thurst in just one day. I really would love to know more.
And, btw, I know the poster in person. He is a local from Ramlia, now english teacher in Rissani and a very honest person.
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  #6  
Old 18 Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Edith Kohlbach View Post
snip.... Nobody dies of thurst in just one day. ..snip.
Sorry but yes you can. Although it was more likely that the COD was not thirst, but more like an myocardial infarction or cerebral anurysm or infarct caused by heat (i.e. heat stroke) or dehydration. It can kill in far less then a day (at little as 20 min). Cars can get to be 20-30 deg C higher then ambient. So if it is 50 deg c out it could easily be 70 inside the car more then enough to cook someone's brain, if she pass out in the car or fell asleep. If she did not have enough (or any) water it easily could have killed her) Although sad it is tragically more then physiologically feasible.
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Old 18 Aug 2008
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Yes, this is more it.
I am just trying to imagine the situation. The couple departed in the morning, maybe with 1 or 2 bottles, because I can't believe that anybody is so stupid to start without any water on a desert trip of 250 km in summer. The car problem arrived, maybe stuck in the sand. Both get out, try to dig out the car. They are thursty, drink all available water. Car still in sand. The man decides to get help, the woman stays with the car. She would not be inside, so not too much heat. Maybe in the shadow beside the car. She is thursty and afraid. So a heat stroke or infarct seems possible. But just dying because of not enough water in a few hours, I can't believe this. This would need days.
I remember the german car dealers end of 1980s, who disappeared near Tamanrasset. Some of my friends went to Algeria for the search. Finally the people were found, dead. But it took days, as they could see from the remains. In the end they even drank the water of the car cooler.
BTW, I was on this same piste in May with a friend. Enough water. Just near Ouzina we got stuck in the sand (he was the driver ). So I know the road condition there very well. The owner of the nearby auberge came with shovels and we got the car out fast. We were lucky. But even with more problems I had water enough.
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Old 18 Aug 2008
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Edith, What Xander was referring to was heat stroke which strikes when you are already very dehydrated (possibly over days). It this case it is well known that people previously conscious slip into comas or even drop dead - it happens very quickly and with little warning.
Maybe that is what happened to the unfortunate victims. It is not the first time this has happened down there at this time of year.
It happened to a driver or two on a Tunisia Rally in '97? while still at the wheel (or some such story).

Ch
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  #9  
Old 19 Aug 2008
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Beware.......

A friend travelling on an XT in the South Ethiopia to Northern Kenya area - near Turkana, with a group of 5 Motorbikes. They were struggling tthrough deep sand in a nd out of dry river beds etc, my friend started to struggle and the others started to help, himand each other. However, shortly after he collapsed - no definates but probably not drinking enough water and heat exhaustion. He passed out and quickly got worse - got him in some shade, stripped off his clothing and tried to cool him as much as poss - water and fanning. The most able biker then rode in the direction of the nearest habitation - he luckily came upon an Army patrol - they drove out in their truck picked up my firend and his bike and drove to a small airstrip that is used for the mail plane.From here the army guys radioed Nairobi and got patched throughto a Doctor - he advised another friend how to rig up a drip, supplied by the army, and the mail plane picked him up the next day and flew him to NAirobi, where he was transferred to the hospital. He was still unconscious and remained so for 4 days - he was released after one week and others who were looking after him said he could not speak properly, and did not get back to anything like normal for 2-3 weeks.

The body, needs water/fluids in extreme heat, also pushing the body especially when dressed in off road kit will only speed up the overheating/exhaustion levels.
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  #10  
Old 19 Aug 2008
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He was still unconscious and remained so for 4 days - he was released after one week and others who were looking after him said he could not speak properly, and did not get back to anything like normal for 2-3 weeks.
It’s interesting that you mention that he was not able to speak. Some years ago I ran out of water in Sudan (summertime) and had a pretty hard time. The first few days I had problems when I tried to speak, after a week or so I was healed.
Maybe this is common?
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Old 19 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edith Kohlbach View Post
Yes, this is more it.
I am just trying to imagine the situation. The couple departed in the morning, maybe with 1 or 2 bottles, because I can't believe that anybody is so stupid to start without any water on a desert trip of 250 km in summer. The car problem arrived, maybe stuck in the sand. Both get out, try to dig out the car. They are thursty, drink all available water. Car still in sand. The man decides to get help, the woman stays with the car. She would not be inside, so not too much heat. Maybe in the shadow beside the car. She is thursty and afraid. So a heat stroke or infarct seems possible. But just dying because of not enough water in a few hours, I can't believe this. This would need days.
Actually this is exactly how it could have happened.. with 1-2 bottles of water they where both already dehydrated..rule of thumb: in the heat you need 5-6l per day per person.. with exercise it goes up 1tr per hour with moderate exercise.

Quote:
Edith, What Xander was referring to was heat stroke which strikes when you are already very dehydrated (possibly over days).
I said that didn't I .. but Chris remember with either clinical dehydration or heat stoke it does not have to be days.. but is more related to ambient temperature, body condition, Body mass, and exertion load .. (as well as a heap of other factors - drugs, menstrual cycle..ect) heat stoke is defined as the core temperature reaching 40Deg C that is only a 3 deg increase, and can happen very quickly..

For the true geeks out there here is a few medical review papers
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Old 19 Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
It’s interesting that you mention that he was not able to speak. Some years ago I ran out of water in Sudan (summertime) and had a pretty hard time. The first few days I had problems when I tried to speak, after a week or so I was healed.
Maybe this is common?
Neurological problems are a very common effect of dehydration
Check out this thread for a break down of clinical dehydration.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ghlight=Xander
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Old 19 Aug 2008
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Thanks Xander!
Interesting link, haven’t seen it before.



It’s a bit scary to read stuff like that; I have had too many of the symptoms:



As long as I was sweating it wasn’t that hard, it got worse..



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Old 19 Aug 2008
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Tough lessons learned

[QUOTE=Edith Kohlbach;202851]
I remember the german car dealers end of 1980s, who disappeared near Tamanrasset. Some of my friends went to Algeria for the search. Finally the people were found, dead. But it took days, as they could see from the remains. In the end they even drank the water of the car cooler.

Hi Edith
I remember well, the discovery of the German group who went a little off piste in 1987, I was in Tamanrasset shortly after they were found. Their dreadful and terminal experience was deeply disturbing, and I have taken greater care to calculate my rations, health-care, fill-ups and expected journey duration ever since.
So their tragedy was not in vain... Kit
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  #15  
Old 20 Aug 2008
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Heat Stroke

I felt that this topic was so important that I must share my own experiences:

I lived for many years in the Middle East where my passion(still is)was off roading and walking/clambering where ever I got to.I was fit healthy and carrying plenty of water in the car.

Twice I overexerted myself hill clambering(not real climbing)away from the car and had to lay under rocks for two or three hours before I could regain the strength to move back to the car.Both times I had plenty of water in my rucksac and I drank it all(say 3l) without noticible improvement in my condition.The second time I was also carrying two small cans of Isostar isoponic drink and this really did bring me around.Since then I always have similar mineral drink available if I am in the desert.

I will leave others with more scientific knowledge to explain the process properly but I hope this experience helps you all.

Be safe and enjoy!
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