sand ladders

[dranisrof]

There was some discussion recently re carrying sand ladders for 4x4s.
They are a waste of space.( But they look good).
If you have to get into a situation that will take you through soft sand, even mud, deflate your tyres to 12psi. Carry a compressor for reflation once on the hard.
As an ex dukw driver I have had plenty of experience with soft beaches etc. DUKWs have, had, on board tyre compressors, and the ability to set tyre pressure from the drivers seat for this very reason.
Even in the Sahara there are well trodden tracks, use them ok, so you will run into drifted sand, do not put your rig at risk it is your way home, if you want to get to the top of a dune walk.
One final tip from my Army days, use chicken wire encased in hessian, (heavy duty), as well as making great roadway they can be put to hudreds of other uses, temporary shelters, wind screens, interior security screens, load covers, bed mats, camoflage, mantrap covers ! The list is endless, happy camping.

[A.B.]

I humbly disagree with the notion that sand mats are not that useful and a waste of space. They do take a lot of space, but securely hung outside the vehicle, they don’t use much valuable space. I fitted my Jeep with a fast engine driven compressor and a front mounted electric winch but I still carry my sand mats all the time.

Letting the air out of tires will only ease the extraction, it won’t guarantee freeing a vehicle. You still need a solid surface for the tire to grab to especially since the tires have to climb upwards out of the whole it dug for itself.

Since I installed the winch I almost always use it to get, or get someone, unstuck because of its ease of use and speed. However there where a couple of incidences where I still needed to use sand mats to ease the load on the winch when pulling heavier, or deeply buried, vehicles.

Perhaps the most important reason to carry the sand mats is they will always work. Winches and compressors can fail and both units in my Jeep did on different occasions.

------------------
A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

[ctc]

What!?

Quotes:

"I have had plenty of experience with soft beaches etc." Clearly this qualifies you to hold court on desert travel then!

"Even in the Sahara there are well trodden tracks, use them ok," Is that a command? What if you want to cross a belt of dunes or exploring a relatively untravelled area!

"so you will run into drifted sand, do not put your rig at risk it is your way home" Your "rig" is your home on expedition.

"use chicken wire encased in hessian" While this was used to blaze a route across the Sinai peninsula into Trans Jordan (early 20th C), it went out the window in the 1920's when Bagnold et al started exploring the Western desert. They soon found sand ladders preferable!

No doubt you'll be recommending Solar Topees next or buying icecreams from the pierhead when you get too hot!

[Chris Scott]

I was waiting for someone else to start on this poor guy - it does not do for the moderator to lead the way, but my choice quote was:
"if you want to get to the top of a dune [comma] walk."
And get the porter johnies dressed as mantraps to carry the DUKV up, I take it?

Actually, I do agree that sand plates are over-rated, but as AB said, they do always work (and are desirable if you are driving solo).

And so it goes, round and round and round....

Ch

[Sam Rutherford]

For an alternative to the Land Rover/Toyota 'round and round', how about DUKW versus either...?

[Ian Bradshaw]

Ahh, but getting stuck in the sand in the Sahara in (or on) a civilian vehicle is slightly different to driving up the beach in a 'Duck' for 3 reasons; (1) unlike any beach landing since Normandy the commandos/SBS etc didn't covertly take sand samples for travellers' to plan appropriately firm saharan routes, (2) civilian vehicles aren't able to float out of trouble when the tide comes in (3) instead of 4 hrs on a beach, it could take more than 100000 years for the tide to come in when sat in the sahara in your duck.


I guess this adequately illustrates why military intelligence (one of my favourite oxymorons) isn't left to the drivers of quirky supply vehicles.

I rest my case m'lud.

[dranisrof]

Originally posted by ctc:
What!?

Quotes:

"I have had plenty of experience with soft beaches etc." Clearly this qualifies you to hold court on desert travel then!

"Even in the Sahara there are well trodden tracks, use them ok," Is that a command? What if you want to cross a belt of dunes or exploring a relatively untravelled area!

"so you will run into drifted sand, do not put your rig at risk it is your way home" Your "rig" is your home on expedition.

"use chicken wire encased in hessian" While this was used to blaze a route across the Sinai peninsula into Trans Jordan (early 20th C), it went out the window in the 1920's when Bagnold et al started exploring the Western desert. They soon found sand ladders preferable!

No doubt you'll be recommending Solar Topees next or buying icecreams from the pierhead when you get too hot!

[dranisrof]

The "use them ok" should have had the comma before the ok, and not after, a mistake for which I apologise . It can then be read in the context I had intended. Why are you getting so fired up, everyone has a valid opinion.
I have had a lot of desert, jungle and artic experience,not just in DUKWs, or even DUKVs whatever they are. I never claimed to be any kind of expert, I leave that to others. If coming on to a forum and expressing valid opinion, is regarded as holding court,then that says more about others than the person offering the opinion.
The Sinai Peninsula was before my time, but I know what works for me.
What is a Topee ?
Ice cream does not have the desired effect, much better with a cup of sweet tea,made in a benghazi, thankyou.

Originally posted by ctc:
What!?

Quotes:

"I have had plenty of experience with soft beaches etc." Clearly this qualifies you to hold court on desert travel then!

"Even in the Sahara there are well trodden tracks, use them ok," Is that a command? What if you want to cross a belt of dunes or exploring a relatively untravelled area!

"so you will run into drifted sand, do not put your rig at risk it is your way home" Your "rig" is your home on expedition.

"use chicken wire encased in hessian" While this was used to blaze a route across the Sinai peninsula into Trans Jordan (early 20th C), it went out the window in the 1920's when Bagnold et al started exploring the Western desert. They soon found sand ladders preferable!

No doubt you'll be recommending Solar Topees next or buying icecreams from the pierhead when you get too hot!

[ctc]

For what its worth. I got fired up because the advice you gave seemed to take the form of a series of commands which despite your military background did not appear to be based upon relevant experience of the desert. I have a deep and meaningful relationship with my sand ladders and would not travel without them!

Turning back to DUKW's. It would be the ultimate poseur's vehicle for the beach piste! Are there any still around? There must be some reason why the wily Mauritanians have not latched onto them!

Trivia : Solar topees were the hats worn in colonial times to protect you from the sun.

[dranisrof]

No problem.Have a look at the Duck Doctors site http://www.milweb.net/go/rexward/ There are a few commercial tour operations on the go, London Frogs, Viking Tours (Dublin), Cardiff, Liverpool. There are loads in the States, and I have to say they are great fun. Most people have them converted to Turbo Diesel, with Auto trans, and modified suspensions, as the drive train is the weak link, having more prop. shafts and UJs than I dare to think about. If I ever get enough cash in the one place at the right time I have promised myself one, as they are truly fantastic vehicles/craft, D day would have been a disaster without them. There is a mine of information on the web about them. At the moment I will press on with my Series 3. Regarding the sand ladder thing. My technique is simply that If I feel that soft ground is upon me I take tyre pressures down to 12psi. so that when the soft area is approached the tyre footprint is maximised, and does not cut through the sand/snow/ mud as easily. Have a look at some of the Icelandic 4x4 web sites and they have the technique developed to the extreme for snow and glacier work. Many lives could and should have been saved by this one thing alone.I am thinking of a recent case in Oz. Of course sand ladders have there uses, but rather than charging through and getting buried to the axles, as so many seem to think is the way, I prefer the light touch. Good luck.

Originally posted by ctc:
For what its worth. I got fired up because the advice you gave seemed to take the form of a series of commands which despite your military background did not appear to be based upon relevant experience of the desert. I have a deep and meaningful relationship with my sand ladders and would not travel without them!

Turning back to DUKW's. It would be the ultimate poseur's vehicle for the beach piste! Are there any still around? There must be some reason why the wily Mauritanians have not latched onto them!

Trivia : Solar topees were the hats worn in colonial times to protect you from the sun.

[strongp]

Haven't laughed so much since granny caught her left tit in the Warn Winch....

Go easy on the poor man - he's only adding to the rich tapestry of experience on this forum - although things have definately moved on from the days of roaring across the Qattara Depression in an open-topped Series LR.

BTW, now that we're all using diesel (I hope) the benghazi will get a little smoky. Kind of like desert lapsang souchon I suppose.

For more interesting (if unrelated) threads see
http://www.linkstew.org/noid/1041.html

[dranisrof]

Whatever lights your fire.
Diesel in a benghazi works quite well.
Hope your granny's tit improves,and continues travelling !
This site is fantastic!

Originally posted by strongp:
Haven't laughed so much since granny caught her left tit in the Warn Winch....

Go easy on the poor man - he's only adding to the rich tapestry of experience on this forum - although things have definately moved on from the days of roaring across the Qattara Depression in an open-topped Series LR.

BTW, now that we're all using diesel (I hope) the benghazi will get a little smoky. Kind of like desert lapsang souchon I suppose.

For more interesting (if unrelated) threads see
http://www.linkstew.org/noid/1041.html

[Chris Scott]

As it happens we went on the London DUKV/W yesterday. reminded me on my 101: hot, slow and noisy - but much better bouancy.

Ch

[dranisrof]

Glad you enjoyed the Frog tour Chris. Engine heat has always been an issue with them, due to the enclosed engine, and for the same reason all the noise stays inside the hull, but they get the job done.
Anyway am going to miss this forum, I,m of to Rumania on Monday, with some kit for an orphanage, so if anyone sees a ratty green Series 3 Safari,(plus hessian mat's) pulling a blue box van out of Zeebruge, Tuesday morning that,s me and the gang,travel safe.

Originally posted by Chris Scott:
As it happens we went on the London DUKV/W yesterday. reminded me on my 101: hot, slow and noisy - but much better bouancy.

Ch

[strongp]

Have a great trip - hope the sand along the way is good and firm for you....

Peter