London to Morocco and back in 2 weeks (advice sought)
 

Sorry...another Morocco question! I'm fairly new on the adventure biking scene and I am going via France and Spain to Morocco (in August) on a 98 Transalp. Not to bothered about advice for Spain and France, but really want to get the best out of time in Morocco i.e. have an adventure!! It's a 2 week trip so will ride fairly hard through Spain and France (both ways if necessary). 1)Any ideas on reasonable travel times to get to Tangier? I've heard Todra Gorge is beautiful so I'm kind of setting that as my goal. Is this reasonable given the time available? Would like to get there on as interesting a route as possible taking in some desert, mountains etc. My bike does 180 miles on a tank (no extra loading). Any advice on a route to take welcome. Would like it to include some dirt roads etc. Will not have off road tyres but will fit dual purpose if advised to do so (bike came with road tyres). Any thoughts?

Bloody Hell! 2 weeks. I tried it a couple of weeks ago and failed. desided to just spend more time in Spain. I was on a 1200 Bandit which is faster on road and still desided to call it a day. Mainly because of the weather - it rained really hard from Baudoux to madrid. I'd have to say getting off the beeten track in Spain was fantastic and more than made up for not making Morroco. Its not the distance but the experiance.

Whatever you deside - good luck and enjoy.

Four of us went to Morocco last year in a Land Rover. We took the ferry from England to Bilbao and then on down through spain where we caugt a ferry to Ceuta rather than Tangiers. We headed through Morocco down to Erfoud and throught the desert to Zagora and then on to Todra. From there we went up the west coast back to Spain.

We did all of this in 2 and a half weeks and at a push we could have done it in 2 weeks. Forget the ferry to Spain and ride down to Southern spain. It will take probably 24 hours to ride down from France to Soutehen Spain.

Alternatively there is a ferry from Marseille to Morocco. That maybe worth liiking into.

We went to all the major town in Morocco also, Fez, Rabat Marrakesh and Larache on the west coast is well worth a visit.

We would recommend you have a look at chris scotts route through the desert from Zagora to Erfoud. It is magnificent, especially the dunes.

Good luck

Ashley

email, queenandcountry@hotmail.com

Hi PaulJ
I did a great Morocco trip in an 4x4 last November/December, starting with the ferry crossing from Almeria (Spain) to Nador (Morocco).
This put me into real desert by lunchtime next day, and the rest worked out great.
Chris Scott’s book is highly recommended, even if I did get lost!
Check out the notes on my website which gives approx miles and times.
Click this link on the main page
'Morocco Off-Piste, November 2001'
Bon voyage
Kitmax

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Kitmax - Traveller
Desert Pictures at
http://www.kitmax.com/kitmax/kit03ph...velgallery.htm
homepage http://www.kitmax.com

Thanks for your comments. Ashley,why did you go to Ceuta instead of Tangiers> Is it easier/quicker to get out of? Your trip sounds like the kind of route I would be taking. Kitmax, I have actually been on your site before. I following a link from another posting but I'd forgotten about it. Your itinery table is very interesting/useful I need to study it properly and mark some of these places off on my Michelin map to give me an idea of how long/far places are apart. I don't think I'll go as far South as you (time limits), maybe go as far south as Todra George.
I'm not sure whether I should go up the west coast on the return or head up the centre of the country? Any recomendations? Ashley, sounds like the cities along the west coast might be worth visiting...I suppose I'd make good time on the surfaced roads on the west coast as well.

hi all, firstly tangiers is a nightmare as far as security goes. i would say if you will get robbed anywhere it will be in tangiers and as a first trip to morrocco you will easily picked out and targeted. ceuta is mildly better with cheap fuel just less than
€0.50/L for petrol .
as for the coast route, i came back from the south this way in april and didn't think too much of it. if you are into birdwatching then there are some good sites but really not much else. the centre has a lot more in the way of scenery and traditional morroccan life.
while we were in algeciras there was a group of landrovers heading for an adventure trip organised by one of the magazines in the uk. they were heading down to erg chebbi and back in 7 days. so i don't see a problem in your shorter trip with a bit longer time.

Hi Paul

You asked why we went to Ceuta instead of Tangiers. Most people feel this is a more relaxed way to enter Morocco as you are in effect travelling from spain to a pocket of spain in Morocco. Once in ceuta you can relax for an hour and leisurely enter Morocco proper. The other advantage is there are less peple the other side to hassle you, which after a long drive and the customs check atc you will appreciate it. My emai address is queenandcountry@hotmail.com. Send me an email and we can chat over the phone.

Cheers Ashley

I did the trip in two weeks this April on a BMW F650 Dakar. Set off from Warwick on the Saturday afternoon for the evening sailing from Portsmouth - Bilbao. Arrived 08.00 on the Monday and ran to Algeciras in one hit (it was a long day but the roads were empty and in pretty good order!) stopped every 250 km for petrol, food and a stretch.

Camped at Algi for the night and caught the 07.00 ferry to Morocco the Tuesday morning. 40 mins later i was at the border. Pretty straight forward - even for a first timer!! Follow the instructions in Chris's book and you won't go wrong.

Headed for the Rif Valley and planned to stop overnight at Voulibilis (roman ruins) Met up with a Belgian chap on a Tenere and we went on to Meski over the Atlas in the pi**ing rain and a sleet storm.

Played around Erg Chebbi for a day as the route to Zagora (if i remember correctly) was flooded out. (landrovers stuck for a few days in the wash out by all accounts of the locals).

We changed plans and did two of the smaller routes in the book (can't remember the names now but were excellent fun and described superbly). Stopped out it the desert overnight and then headed for Todra. Camped out and did the loop Todra - Dades gorges. EXCELLENT - but the local kid in the valley are a real pain in the arse.
We split up and i headed for Ourazzette (Spelling?) to do the route around Ait BenHaddou. EXCELLENT.

Back over the Atlas TIZI n TICHCA, and headed for Marakech and the coastal road (quicker) to head back to Ceuta. Arrived back on the Tuesday afternoon and caught the 18.00 hrs ferry. Stopped outside Malaga on the Tuesday night and headed back to Bilbao for the Thursday midday ferry back to UK.

Excellent trip apart from the rain in Spain, snow in Spain, Hail in Spain. Weather could have been better across the Atlas but was great further south.

A long two weeks (7000 kms) but would recommend three weeks if you get the chance.

enjoy - what ever you do!!

regards
Paul

Just wanted to recommend your Todra plans. For me the driving highlight in Morocco was the Todra - Dades Loop.

From Tinehir head to - Ait Ouaritane - Tamtattoucht - Ait Hani - Agoudal - Tilmi -Msemir -Ait Youl- Boumaine.

The top section of the route between Agoudal and Tilmi is a jaw dropping, stomach clenching ride. I did it in a Landrover Defender and the track is verging on suicidal in parts - however scenery is mindblowing. On a bike I think it would be a little easier (as the track is very narrow in places) and faster.

Distance around 200 miles.

2 weeks... that's brave in my eyes. I've been in Marocco in May did 8000km's in a month. Have a 2000 Transalp. Quite a bit on pistes.

If you want to be able to go off road with no worries: get Michelin Deserts. Ideally you get them changed in Spain before you take the boat over. If you would consider taking the boat from Almeria to Nador, let me know, I know a Michelin dealer there who can help you out.
The nightboat Almeria Nador saves you some Spanish tarmac and Nador is a easy place to enter Marocco. From there in 1 day you can be in Midelt, 2 days to Boulmane (South of Er Rachidia), and so on...

Didn't like Todra, too touristy and developed. Had to pay to entre actually... Dades is much better!!!
Good stop over nearby: In Boulmane, look for Chambre d' Hotes La Palmerie. Bikes are safe inside the palmerie. Good food and reasonable prices. Ask to sleep in the tents if you want to go really cheap.

Erfoud and Merzouga is beatifull.

Good place in Marrakesh to stay:

Hotel Essouaria inside the Medina close to the Djemaa el Fna square. The owner will allow the bikes to be put inside the hotel.You might have to take the panniers of to get them inside.
Great roof top terrace, good price and THE place to meet other travellers.

In Taroudant go to Hotel Taroudant (if I am not mistaken). It is on the corner of the straat comming out on to the mai square. Good price, nice inside garden, good food. AND: BEER and WINE in the evenings!
Bikes can be put inside. Taroudant is a nice city to stroll around.

Tafraoute a bit south of Taroudant. Nice little town. There is a good hotel to stay, ask me via a mail if you need to know wich one. Don't remember the name.
I have encountered some of the most beatifull stuff on a day trip just south of Tafraoute. 300m deep gorges with streaming (!!!) clear water in wich you can see the frogs and fish play around. One oasis after the other one... Again, ask me more through mail if you consider this area.

The Aït Benhaddou loop aside of the Tizi N Tichka is great!!!! Go for it. In general the Tizi N Ticka is much nicer than the Tizi N Test.

In Ouarzazate: DO NOT STAY in hotel Es Salaam. Place seems nice and quite during the day bu turns into a prostitute house at night. Also had camera stolen out of my room here.
For the rest a nice little town for a walk around in the evening.

Check the pictures on my website.

Have fun and feel free to mail me any questions.


Pieter.

(conclusion of this message for me... I need to upgrade my website and put all this info out there for everyone.... who can help me out with some cheap easy software?)

Well I did it! Thanks for all your advice and stories! I loved the whole thing except I would say you need more than 2 weeks to really enjoy it, don't go in the middle of Summer, oh and don't get suckered into buying the obligatory carpet before you've even hit your first piste!
I bought Mr Scott's book and it proved invaluable. The bike (Transalp) was a dream and I've since christened her Xena Warrior Princess.

[This message has been edited by PaulJ (edited 14 August 2002).]

In october 2000 I went in my Suzuki SJ from Plymouth-Santander, leaving on a Sunday eve. got to Spain midday monday, got the ferry to Ceuta 8:00am Tuesday, went Ceuta-Meknes-Azrou-Marrakech-Ouazerzate-Zagora-Mhmid and back, stayed in Chaoun on the Monday night (1 week later) got the ferry to Algeciras on the Tuesday morning, spent Wednesday in Gibraltar, got the ferry to the UK on the Thursday Evening. Whew what a rush! Actually it didn't seem much of a rush at the time. there are some pictures here:

Welcome to Scott Wylie's Photography Emporium - powered by SmugMug

PaulJ - Just planning on doing the same thing on my Pan-European, solo.

I've posted a couple of messages at:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000171.html

Did you find your nice shiny bike a little conspicuous, or maybe your're going to get hassled anyway so it doesn't matter too much?

You're a man after my own heart - I like to set my self long distances in 2 weeks (usually 4500-5000 miles). In fact on my last trip to Sicily, I got from Cherbourg to Orbetello (75 miles north of Rome) in a day, which was 1000.5 miles. Just wanted to pass that milestone!

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 29 August 2002).]

IanC, Good luck! I think the long rides must be a bit more pleasant on a Pan-European than on a Transalp! I think any big bike is fairly conspicuous in Morocco, escpecially down the quieter Eastern side where I didn't say any big bikes apart from those belonging to tourists (I didn't really go West much). I did however get the impression that no matter how much I pleaded poverty whilst being sold something 'really useful' (carpets, minerals or fossils generally), they would take one look at my bike and the dollar signs would shine in their eyes. Let me know how you get on. Are you riding through France and Spain? I found I could do Spain in a day, but France was just too long for me, let me know if you can do it (that's a dare by the way!).
Are you going on the pistes on your bike!? Oh and last of all it's really really really hot there now!

hi paul
try dover calis then get the train down to spain short ride to get the ferry to ceuta

PaulJ - Yes, I'll probably ride through France and Spain. I have taken the ferry down to Santander before, but I was riding an Electraglide then, which was OK but nowhere near as good as the Pan for eating up the tarmac. I'll be disappointed if I can't get through France in a day - I'll let you know how far I do get.

Nobby, can you get all the way to the South of Spain from Frince on a train without having to load/off load your bike more than once? How much is it approx?

Good Luck Ian!

PaulJ - Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I've posted a reply addressed to JCB at

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000599.html

(as this thread was the one I actually started) which is mainly to yourself and JCB, who were both extremely helpful and encouraging to me before my trip.

Thanks very much for all your help - I hope I'll be able to give someone the same inspiration you gave me!

Regarding your dare, I _did_ make it through France OK in a day - from Cherbourg to Soria in Spain (halfway between Biaritz and Madrid). Although strangely, coming back, I didn't have the inclination to get from Algeciras to Santander - maybe I'd had too many long hauls by then, or perhaps it seemed "uphill"!

Anyway, where are you off to next?

Hi Ian,
Sorry I've not been on the site for some time. I think it's because it makes me a bit miserable sometimes when I am reading about all the exciting places people are riding around and I don't have anything planned for the near future :-( (lack of time and money!)
Anyway, I am really pleased you enjoyed Morocco and that anything I said was helpful/encouraging.
I also had a much slower return ride back across Spain and France. The funny thing was, after all that (sometimes dodgy) food I ate in Morocco, the only time I got stomach problems was when I stopped in Torremelinos for a full english breakfast!!
I haven't got anything major planned yet, my girlfiend is going to learn to ride and get a bike so I am kinda waiting for that to happen - but maybe something will come up before then - who knows, any ideas?!?!
Have you got plans for another trip? I would love to take her to Morocco to show her what I saw, the atlas, the desert, the gorges, the pistes etc. But I also have so many other place I'd like to go, scandinavia being one of them. any recommendations?

PaulJ - Sorry I've been a while replying again! I actually "replied" within a day or so of your post, but pressed the "back" button before I had submitted it and lost the lot! I was so p....d off that I haven't got back to it till now.

Not sure where I'm off to next, but I do know I will be going back to the Sahara again, probably more right into it next time rather than just down one edge. Depeneding on time available, which is my usual problem, I would like to do a proper crossing, maybe right down to Dakhla, then accross and up through Tamanrasset or thereabouts (I keep looking at my Michelin 953!) and up to Tunis. Obviously on a more suitable bike than a Pan though! More likely next though I might have a go at doing a similar route to the one Chris Scott is planning at http://www.adventure-motorcycling.co...s/roadride.htm, riding from Tunis down to Djanet and back, which apparently is all good tarmac now. Then again, next spring I might just go to Switzerland and Austria, but these places to be honest seem a bit tame now after Africa. I also always fancied doing America, but that doesn't seem quite so appealing now either!

Funny, your comments about stomach problems. I actually didn't have any problem in Morocco (thank goodness with their toilets!) until I was on the Ceuta-Algeciras ferry, although this might have been due to the sudden intake of beer after 10 days in an alcohol-free country!

Scandinavia was excellent, in particular Norway (Swedish landscapes I thought pretty monotonous generally). Norway is totally different, big mountains and fjords, whereas Sweden is all trees. The real highlight for me was the remote areas of Lapland (including into Finalnd), and getting up above the Arctic Circle - very beautiful. I've discovered since that I was actually quite lucky with the weather - when I went in August 2001 it was blue skies, bright, really crisp sunshine (mainly), and not even that cold, except within about 100 miles of Nordkapp. If I was going again though, I would time it to catch the Northern Lights or Midnight Sun though. There are similarities with the Sahara - big distances, remoteness, and a bit of a sense of adventure! It's just a bit colder, and not so many carpet salesmen. The people are really nice as well, speaking excellent English, and for a change are surprised at how cheap things (bikes/cars/beer) are in England. I'd thoroughly recommend it!

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 26 November 2002).]

Ian, sounds like you’ve got the Africa bug mate, being from South Africa (but living in UK) I’m obviously biased, but to me Africa is magical and north Africa is nothing like the southern Africa that I know so it was a totally new experience (recommend it all though!)
I am going to plan a trip for next summer, still got to decide where, in between now and then the girlfriend needs to get her licence and buy the bike (so not cheap). I would love to take her to Morocco to show her what I saw, but I would also like to go to Norway. So I’m going to do my research and find out which one will be cheaper – as I think that will be one of the main deciding factors!
So some more questions for you…1. from London, what’s the best way to get to Norway would you say? 2. How long would it take to get there. 3. Would you say 2 weeks is enough to see some of the best bits of Norway and get home again without spending the most part of every day in the saddle? 4. Is it fairly easy to camp there to cut down on the expenses?

PaulJ

Sorry for the delay! I think I may be acquiring an Africa bug! In answer to your questions on Scandinavia:

Firstly, Norway will definitely not be cheaper!! I went from Harwich to Esjberg (West Coast of Denmark), then accross the big bridges via Copenhagen to Sweden. Followed round south and east coast all the way (with a few diversions) to Finnish border, then straight up to Nordkapp (northern point of Europe), and basically down west of Norway to Kristiansaand, ferry back to Newcastle.

I did 5000 miles over a fortnight - the distances are big especially down west Norway on account of the Fjords, you can go 100+ miles just to get "accross the water" sometimes! If you want to be a little less hectic, you could maybe just do Norway (Sweden doesn't vary much), but I would definitely recommend the far North (Lapland & Troms). Trouble is, there isn't much choice of main route so you might end up going and coming back a similar way. There's loads of places to camp, a lot of sites have nice little log huts you can stay in, but a lot need you to take your own sleeping bag or similar. I didn't have one, and got a bit cold some nights! I stayed in a few town/city-centre hotels (Trondeheim, Stockholm, Tromso), but you can't beat a cabin with your bike only five yards away for the night, it's so much easier, no lugging luggage, praking/security etc.

Norway's _definitely_ well worth a visit, especially the top, especially if you've not been there previously. Alta, Tromso & Hammerfest were really nice (it might just have been the weather when I was there).

Let me know where you decide! Norway and Morocco are my two best trips to date.

Hi Ian,

We've finally decided on our thing for next year. Instead of a Southern loop through Russia is is going to be a Northen loop around the Baltic Sea in one month.

Since you've been to Scandinavia:
* Do you have any info on places to go / not to go?
* where to sleep? How do we find those little cabins?
* What are the roads like and is it possible to take back roads, we would like to take as much dirt roads as possible.
* Can you easely find fuel around?
* Will it be too cold in September? I have checked the avarage temperatures and they seem doable.

Thanks for any info!

Pieter Maes
'Fireboomer'

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http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/

Fireboomer and Ian,
I started another topic stream in the 'Route Planning' section and it's entitled 'UK to Norway (advice needed)'.
There is some good info for you there Fireboomer regarding your scandinavia questions and is also a more appropriate topic to be discussing this subject under.
Liked the pictures on your website by the way! They were very similar to some of my Morocco pics!
Thanks for the extra info Ian, I'll be posting more questions under the topic I mentioned above at some point.
Ian, send me some pics of your Norway trip if you like...after all a picture speaks a thousand words!!

[This message has been edited by PaulJ (edited 20 December 2002).]

Thanks Paul,
Does make more sense to talk about the polar circle in that topic instead of the Sahara-one... Ooooops.

Will come up with more questions soon.

Fireboomer.

Yes, I did think we were going a little off subject myself, actually!

I'll have a look there.

Hi PaulJ
I am planning a 2 week trip to Morocco this year on a Tenere. Could you detail your route and the time of year you went.
Thanks mate!

hey Billy,
Tenere...nice bike.
Visit my website on the link below to see a map which shows roughly the route I took and some pics. The website host is crap and slow and annoying so you may need to hit refresh a couple of times to see everything. I went in July...bad idea. It was way too hot. Through France and pain I rode some 'A' roads but mostly motorways. Boring but got me there quite quickly. Entered in Cueta which was reasonably straight forward. I stuck to the east of the country...didn't really visit any of the main spots e.g. casa blanca, Marrakech etc. I used Chris Scotts book to choose my pistes. I haven't got the map or book with me now so I can't give you exact details but if you want more details let me know, and I'll tell you exactly where I went and what it was like.
Oh yes...and I challenge you to not come back with a carpet (unless you wanted one anyway!)

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My website

Hello Billy

I stuck to the tarmac, but had a great time - distance rather than terrain being my thing.

Have a look at my website (address below) which'll give you an idea of my route and some photos if you need any inspiration. Also there's a thread here which might be interesting:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000599.html

If you've not been to Maroc before, you've really got to do a bit in the Atlas, the two gorges (Todra and Dades), and visit the dunes at Erfoud/Merzouga (Erg Chebbi). There's some good pistes also I think west of there (see Sahara Overland), although I didn't have the right bike. I think there's a nice (rough?) loop linking north of the two gorges, which again I was unable to do.

Have a good time anyway (you'd have a job not doing so!). I agree with PaulJ - July would be hot. September was quite pleasant, although pretty hot further down south.

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ichapp.users.btopenworld.com

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 23 April 2003).]

I have a bit of experience travelling by car through Spain, France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy and this year i´m going to the North Kap still driving my car. I´ve never traveled by motorcycle but have made up my mind to buy a XTE next year and then I´m going to hit Africa, Moroco a couple of times and then a big journey through Africa (my dream).
I´ve read people talk about 6000 km trips in two weeks leaving from the UK including african pistes, my question is, what is your average speed crossing France and Spain? Do you think a Yamaha XTE can cope with that? And what about your average speed on african roads? What is the percentage of tarmac you are used to once in Africa in these trips?

[This message has been edited by Pedro Rocha (edited 29 April 2003).]

hi Pedro,
my average speeds across France and Spain were 70 to 80 mph. That was on a Honda Transalp which would probably cope better at higher speeds for long distances than a XT but I think you should post your question on the XT forum and see what other owners say about the bikes performance. I was able to do France in just over a day and Spain in a day (others have done a lot better I think) but I didn't want to race.
Speeds in Morocco were generally a bit slower although the road conditions were generally quite good, you have to watch out for people and animals. You can spend more or less time on the pistes depending on whether you choose long ones or short ones and how far apart they are (you have to drive on tarmac to get from one piste to another). I would say about 85% of my time was on tarmac mainly because you have to ride to the south of Morocco to get to some of the good pistes and with only 2 weeks to do it all in I didn't have too much time before I had to start riding from the south of Morocco, through Spain and france again! I felt a bit rushed doing it in 2 weeks, but if that's all you've got then I'd definitely recommend it anyway!!

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My website