Isuzu or Mazda engine in Landrover

[Roman]

Hi all,

I now stand convinced my attempts at further improving landrovers have reached an end.

Does any one know good landcruiser clubs and newsgroups?



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Roman (UK)
www.polandrover.com

[karellevrau]

Roman,

bullshit, stay with your disco. The grass is always greener on the other side. Indeed toyota has a very good engine (4,2 diesel) but they have downsides as well.
I don't believe the 300tdi (with all the possible upgrades) is not up to the task.

Karel (discolover)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roman:
Hi all,

I now stand convinced my attempts at further improving landrovers have reached an end.

Does any one know good landcruiser clubs and newsgroups?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Roman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by karellevrau:

The problem is, people want always more and more. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Karel rightly reproaches people for demonstrating the deplorable habit of wanting more. In this example, the perceived lack of engine power may point to weak ego, lacking self-esteem and the effect of aging on male virility.

NA diesel engine witch had al lot less power then the 300tdi but nevertheless in '83 they managed to drive the Camel Trophy with these vehicles!!!

Yes, that's true. But then I know even better examples of English excentricity.

Driving is more then to floor the throttle and hoping you reach the top of that dune....Driving style and experience should compensate for that.

Sadly, I have to agree. "There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action" (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832). Guys & gals, no more floring it up the dune, revving it past the red mark, belching black smoke and making our poor engines scream in terror. It's bad style and lamentable lack of experience. Finally, someone has the wisdom to point it out to us.

You should leave the engine idle for a few minutes before switching off.

Thanks, Karel, but I have thought of it already. Still, the turbo went. Any more guesses why?

Keep the LR-spirit high.

Explanation for those not driving landrovers: it's this faith that keeps us going, despite snapped half-shafts, broken diffs, asthmatic engines and leaking water pumps.

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Roman (UK)
www.polandrover.com

[steve .m]

Roman
libya seems along time a go.I am going to stay with the tdi in the defender but with a bigger intercooler. I have been told that L/cruiser 6cyl egines have a problem with the heads cracking, can any one verify this ?steve

[Alex Wasse]

Hi Roman,

For what it's worth, what are your thoughts on replacing your 300 Tdi with a Rover 3.5l V8? I've had quite a bit of experience with two 110 Defenders with this engine in Jordan over the past couple of years and have on the whole been very impressed, especially when compared to the Toyota Hiluxes and Prado I've used over the same terrain. Even in the ridiculously soft sand you find to the south of Wadi Rum, I've had no more problems in high range than you'd expect, whereas I've found the Toyotas to be a significantly underpowered. In my experience, given regular maintenance the V8 itself is an extremely reliable engine, which is more than you than you can say for the associated fittings on the Defender, especially clutch cylinders, which have given me endless trouble. For the record, Syria is a good and cheap place to have mechanical work done on V8s. Parts are reasonably cheap and mechanics are very familiar with engine because of all the Range Rovers used by the government and military.

Alex

[Alex Wasse]

Forget to mention, but fuel consumption with the V8 can be kept within reasonable limits by taking it very, very easy on the tarmac and desert tracks. In the sands of course it's a different matter!

Alex

[Chris Scott]

>it's this faith that keeps us going, despite snapped half-shafts, broken diffs, asthmatic engines and leaking water pumps.

Normally I stay out of the eternal PC versus Mac debate, but this is what amazes me about you LR guys (and I've had 7 of them!...). in the desert there is enougn to worry about... IMHO what is so frustrating is that LR-ing is such a lottery - eg; Kitmax + all the LRs I've travelled with (if not then ones I owned...) never missed a beat in the dz, and yet Roman's Disco is a dog. Why is that? Me, I couldn't bear the suspense and lately, neither could Tom Sheppard.

>its always better to stick with the manufacturers engine for the vehicle.
I agree - see p.79

>A very powerful engine is the 6,2 or 6,5 V8 diesel (or turbo diesel) from GMC. with loads of torque. Should fit in.
...and will surely eat the standard transmission alive...

>.... most of the time the engine had to work really hard. Where the Landcruisers had enough power to climb the dunes in high range, only changing down to first or second to pick up speed, They had enough power to build up speed and use the momentum, I had to start the run-up in low range to prevent the engine from stalling and rev it high ..
This was exactly my experience driving with (and briefly driving) a Defender in Libya (see p.78). Lovely springs though...

But when it comes to axle articulation, then all modern Landies win. So on the hard piste from
Hirhafok to Assekrem a Disco is best. (Just thought I’d mention that in case you-know-who gets the wrong idea.)
I thought you'd gone converted, Terry ;-). But be fair now, we all made it there and back at a steady crawl (this year I went round the easy way and let the bikes do it alone - in 2 hrs!). Only later did our bits start breaking, including yours! And from where I was looking that 80 articulated as well as the Discovery - though you certainly wouldnt think so to look at one.

>Get one of these babies breathing fire, and your laughing!
Matt, you've landed on the wrong planet - would you send grandpa out there with an engine like that. (Actually let's do it, I'll pay!)

>people want always more and more.
I dont think Roman is asking the world, He just wants an engine up to the job. Seeing as what he's done & spent on his car - and a Discovery is a nice comfy machine - I'd slap a V8 in it and maybe LPG for the drive down and live with the fittings. All that Tojo poke without the stigma ;-)
And Roman, you also save $19.99 on the new www.polandcruiser url

I've had my say, flame away!

Him

PS, never heard of cracked heads on TLC 60s, but I'm not an expert.

[kitmax]

Hi Roman
'Give-Power-to-the-Disco'. A lot has been said on this obviously emotive subject.
Quotes from Goethe? Wow!
You state:
"In this example, the perceived lack of engine power may point to weak ego, lacking self-esteem and the effect of aging on male virility...."
Ego? Self esteem? Male virility? I love it - join the club...!
Perhaps you should fit the ultimate engine in your Disco - a 4 litre Vee-12 Lamborghini.
I spent a year rebuilding mine - my wife thought I had a young Italian mistress shacked up in my garage!
I resolved the accusation later, at 160mph on the local bypass.
Did I say 'wow'...
Bon chance


------------------
Kitmax - Traveller
Desert Pictures at
http://www.kitmax.com/kitmax/kit03ph...velgallery.htm
homepage http://www.kitmax.com

[Terry Davies]

For what its worth, these are my thoughts:

Power - TLC best, Disco not so good (OK with V8, front axle cannot support heavy engines), 110 same as Disco.

Comfort - TLC good, Disco good, 110 poor.

Axle Articulation - TLC not so good, Disco good, 110 best.

Reliability/Quality - TLC best, Disco not so good, 110 same as Disco.

Spares/Support/Info in UK - TLC poor, Disco good, 110 best.

Spares/Support/Info in Area - TLC good, Disco non existent, 110 poor (but 109 excellent).

Owners’ Passion - TLC high, Disco high, 110 right off the scale.

Owners’ Frustration with Manufacturer - TLC very low, Disco medium, 110 same as Disco.

If I were starting from scratch I would go for a TLC. But I’m not, so I’ll stick with my Disco.

I don’t think that the Mark II Disco is a vehicle to take into the Sahara. Its very heavy and crammed with electronics (you can’t fit bigger tyres without reprogramming the ECU).

Unfortunately Toyota seems to be going in the same direction. The latest TLCs have turned into on-road behemoths. I wonder what we’ll be driving in ten years time?

[karellevrau]

Yo,

Consider the facts. Look at the power- and torque-figures of the different engines if you need objective information.

The 300tdi is a turbo-engine with the normal "turbo-disadvantages" such as turbolag under 1600rpm and powerloss at high revvs.
The tdi should be driven on its "torque" around 2000rpm.


[

You should leave the engine idle for a few minutes before switching off.

Thanks, Karel, but I have thought of it already. Still, the turbo went. Any more guesses why?

What kind and specification of engine-oil do you use? Desert-conditions are very demanding on the quality of your engine-oil. Turbos work internally at very high speeds and lack of lubricant or bad quality is lethal.

Karel.


[/B][/QUOTE]

[Roman]

Hi all,

Seems I have caused quite a bit of stir with my innocent remarks. Terry's list sums the issues quite accurately. I agree passion is part of the equation, but what can stir greater passion than a dead vehicle in the middle of nowhere, regardless of its make. As I still have no idea how green is the grass on the other side, so undaunted here I go again:

> For what it's worth, what are your thoughts on replacing your 300 Tdi with a Rover 3.5l V8?

Yes..., but...
I am aware that on soft sand a 300Tdi can burn over 21L/100km, which is not wide off the mark compared to V8 figures. On the other hand, the LPG installation is great in Europe and where gas is available, but a liability where it's not (it takes extra space and is dead weight when not in use).
How does it compare with the fuel consumption for a Toyota 4.2L diesel engine?


> Axle Articulation - TLC not so good, Disco good, 110 best.

I can imagine TLC articulation can be improved by lifting it by 2-3 in. and fitting long travel shocks and springs, can it? Besides, isn't articulation an element of the rock crawling folklore? Load carrying capacity and the ability to take a few hard knocks seem to be more important for overlanding that axle twisting. Thirdly, diff locks can compensate for less than perfect articulation.


> Perhaps you should fit the ultimate engine in your Disco - a 4 litre Vee-12 Lamborghini.

*** and ***

>A very powerful engine is the 6,2 or 6,5 V8 diesel (or turbo diesel) from GMC. with loads of torque. Should fit in.
> ...and will surely eat the standard transmission alive...

Now, these guys in Iceland who run heavily lifted landrovers with 36in tyres and supercharged engines seem to know how to keep the drive train from harm. What's the trick?


> What kind and specification of engine-oil do you use? Desert-conditions are very demanding on the quality of your engine-oil. Turbos work internally at very high speeds and lack of lubricant or bad quality is lethal.

I use Mobil One. I've heard that Millers XFD is equally good. Any experience with this brand?


> And Roman, you also save $19.99 on the new www.polandcruiser.www url

That would be the least financial setback if I decide to trade places (grin...)


Roman (UK) www.polandrover.com

[Chris Scott]

Hi Roman

>How does it compare with the fuel consumption for a Toyota 4.2L diesel engine?
Dont know about 4.2 but I'm told the 61 (4L) was the most economical 6-cyl diesel TLC. I get 24 mpg on the motorway at 70mph, 18-21 on the piste - the best I got was 30 at a steady 80-100kph. This is all with desert loads and crap on the roof. Absolute worst has never gone below 15 in the dunes - the same that Tom Sheppard told me he got churning in dep sand to Uweinat in a LR90 - he was shocked and ran out...
I'm told an TLC80 (4.2) is a more juicy than the 60s, but of course it's a whole lot nicer to drive. Interstingly I did Route L2 with an auto Amazon 100-series tank once and we both used the same fuel over 600km (19mpg). Could a modern auto be more/as efficient? - I think so.
Surprisingly, these figures were identical to Tdis I've travelled with on the odd occasion I've made comparisions - I always assumed they're more economical.

>Load carrying capacity and the ability to take a few hard knocks seem to be more important for overlanding that axle twisting.
True in the Sahara. The Hirhafok piste in the video is an aberation in the desert - as bad as it gets for axles - and the standard-sprung TLC80 managed it without a scrape, much to my surprise. IMHO for load carrying stability you dont want to raise the car any more than necessary, just put in HD rear coils.

CS

[Terry Davies]

You can improve any vehicle’s fuel performance by 12-15% by fitting a Powerplus Fuel Unit. You also get more power. It really does work because I was the driver on the two day test that was performed on a TD5 110 under LRO supervision. The calibration equipment measured every 5cc of fuel used on ten 50 mile circuits and it was amazing how fast fuel consumption went up above 50mph. If you want a copy of the report try contacting them at: powerpluscorp@yahoo.com.

As well as fitting HD rear coils, you can also fit Air Lifters in them. This enables you to stiffen the rear suspension when you’re tanked up with fuel and water, and progressively ease off as you use it up. All Makes sell them in the UK.

[Chris Scott]

How does this power thing do it Terry, in a nutshell?

Chris

[Terry Davies]

It fits in the fuel line and does several things, including leaching minerals into the fuel (diesel or petrol) and polarizing the fuel molecules. This means that the fuel ignites more efficiently so you actually explode more of the fuel that has been injected into the cylinder thereby gaining more power and less waste.

As I understand things, the original version was designed to enable the Spitfires that were sent to Russia during WWII to fly on the very low quality Russian petrol of the era.

I had one fitted to our 200TDi Disco simply to cope with dirty fuel, and was surprised by the performance improvement. Last year I helped with the tests on the TD5 110, so the first mod made to our new "yellow peril" 300TDi Disco was to fit said device.

It takes a couple of thousand miles before it fully beds in. However you can take a crude measurement by performing an MoT Smoke Test immediately before and immediately after. Smoke = unburned fuel.

I know it sounds too good to be true - more power, lower fuel consumption, copes with dirty fuel, pays for itself within 12 months. It just is.