Unleaded

[ihl]

I'm thinking about shipping a Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series from the US to Europe and then driving it around North Africa for six to eight months. LCs here are set up for unleaded fuel. Assuming I pull the catalytic converter, will the engine run well on leaded fuel? Are there other potential problems or solutions I should think about? Also, any further thoughts on using an automatic?

Thanks
Ian

[A.B.]

You’ll find unleaded fuel in most North African countries. I know for sure you’ll find it in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia and Morocco. So it might not need to remove your cc. Auto trans are actually my favorite. I’m contemplating switching the transmission in my Jeep to auto. It’s great for touring, traffic and, although some may disagree, it’s also great in the sand dunes. The trans will hunt a bit more when crossing dunes but still it will be a pleasure to drive. I’ve driven an LC 80 with an auto trans in the great sand sea for an hour or so a few years back, I had a big smile on my face and the owner had to pry me off the steering wheel .

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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

[Chris Scott]

I belive removing the cat does the trick - you wont find much unleaded in the dz.
And in my experience a Toyota auto box was fine, esp on the rocks and OK difficult dunes.

Chris S

[ron reitz]

While on the subject: My KTM LC4 Adventure specifies unleaded gas. It even has a catalytic convertor. Do I need to make some modifications for before I get to algeria in december?

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ron reitz

[Kevin]

I think if you want to stay long term in North Africa then you will have to accept that the car will be driven a lot of the time on unleaded. I don´t know if simply removing the cat is the answer, this can affect the lambda sonde meaning the engine will create problems. I dont think there is any problem in driving with a cat and unleaded petrol, most modern cars with new electronics are fitted with a "knocking" sensor so that the engine runs smoothly on leaded,unleaded,super and inferior kinds of petrol. I have taken several Mercedes S-class and BMW 7 series to Africa, virtually all were fitted with a cat and none had any problems although I didn´t modify it in any way. You will probably need a new cat when you get back though. I agree with A.B. that the auto will be no problem whatsoever, but on the cat issue I would definitly take advice from a Toyota workshop who have experience on this.

[Ian]

Ron: I ran an Adventure in NW Africa for a few months with no problems, using leaded fuel, although it didn't have a cat.

I believe the cat is in the rear silencer, so you might consider replacing yours with a LC4 supercomp silencer for your trip (requires rejetting I believe). KTM also sell a switchable ignition box to help with running on low grade fuel. See the KTM website for details. You can probably buy these parts here in Europe when you get here if you you can't get them in the US, but best to pre-order then collect.

[This message has been edited by Ian (edited 29 September 2002).]

[GWJ]

Running non unleaded fuel is fine provided you remove the catalytic convertor but make sure you replace the oxygen sensor back into the new section of exhaust.

[Chris Scott]

As far as I understand it, you can run leaded with a cat but it quickly knackers the emissions effectiveness of the cat and nothing else. this can make your next roadworthy test tricky as emissions may not be so nice.
but other than that the engine should run fine (low octane ratings nothwithstanding, esp on a KTM Adv...)

Chris S

[ihl]

Further Questions

Thanks for the input, which seems to favor pulling the catalytic converter if leaded fuel is to be used. As I'm planning on traveling down to Mali and then east across the Sahel countries, my assumption is that there will often be no unleaded fuel available.

In talking with mechanics here, two concerns have been expressed about pulling the cat. First, Land Cruisers since 1996 use a computer monitoring system that tracks the performance of the cat, and that would show a malfunction if the cat were removed. The concern here is that this would do more than trigger the engine light on the dash, but would actually diminish engine performance. Any comments? At any rate, this can be solved by getting a 1993-95 LC, which is a much more affordable option to boot.

The second concern is that, even if the computer doesn't monitor the cat, it will monitor the oxygen sensor, which will soon be fouled by leaded fuel. Under this circumstance, I'm told, the computer will show a malfunction and go into an open ended loop, no longer tracking engine performance, and leading to an excessively rich mixture of fuel being delivered. Too-rich fuel, in turn, will supposedly soon take a toll on spark plugs and so on. This concern seems more serious, because it suggests not taking a truck set up for unleaded at all. This would rule out not only 80 series but 60 series Land Cruisers from the US. Any comments on this?

Again, thanks!
Ian


However,

Originally posted by ihl:

I'm thinking about shipping a Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series from the US to Europe and then driving it around North Africa for six to eight months. LCs here are set up for unleaded fuel. Assuming I pull the catalytic converter, will the engine run well on leaded fuel? Are there other potential problems or solutions I should think about? Also, any further thoughts on using an automatic?

Thanks
Ian

[ScottWylie]

I have exactly the same situation on a Suzuki Jimny going to southern Morocco, although unleaded is quite readily available I did have a few problems getting it last time but my old suzuki had no cat and could use unleaded.

My concerns are about the engine management computer and the O2 sensor. Obviously this is a different vehicle to the LC but I'll let you know what the mechanics say.

[ScottWylie]

Having spoken to the SUZUKI service people and asking on another BBS, both sources said that a straight through pipe to replace the cat would be fine as long as the O2 sensor was left in position. They didn't think it would get fouled, in fact the sensor is identical to those on earlier vehicles that can use Leaded petrol.

Their two concers were that it's illegal to do this in the UK and if you get caught (don't ask me how) you would be fined. And secondly that you would need to make certain there was no Leaded left in the tank when you put the cat back, even trace amounts will damage it.

Hope this helps.

[Luke]

Don't forget the extra inline filters; fuel of dubious quality will literally erode those lovely common rail solenoid injectors. If it doesn't work out once you're over here it's easy enough to find someone who'll replace all the sensetive injection gubbins with an old style manifold and a dirty great Weber carb on top. It might actually be worth your while to put all the sophisticated bits in a box, run a carb for the length of the trip and then stick the bits back on to be legal in US/EU; no idea of prices but I can't imagine that a carb costs much these days.
BTW Do you fancy chucking a few bits into your car before it goes into the container? (see the post "wind power")
Cheers
Luke

[Kevin]

This is probably a bit late but here goes:

I put the question to the guy in Munich who is head of development of BMW´s engines which go into the M5. He recommends simply running the car on leaded, as this is good for the engine (helps to "grease" it) and replacing the cat when you get back (maybe too expensive). If you do do this then run the car for some time on unleaded when you get back as this will clean out the engine of all the leaded petrol. I guess he knows what he is talking about. He also said that diverting around the cat is fine IF IT IS DONE PROPERLY. As this is today almost unheard of in Europe it may screw the car up badly if it is done wrongly.

[ctc]

Re automatics in the desert the pros to my mind would be:

1)Potentially smoother and quicker gear change = less driver and engine fatigue.

2)Greater reliability as they are more difficult to mishandle.

On the cons:

1)You cannot achieve immediate bursts of power by dabbing the accelerator as you can with a manual transmission as the time lag will be too great.

{NB.If youre asking why this matters: I found this technique of "dabbing" the accelerator greatly improves performance in tight complex dunefields. Basically if you put your foot down too hard and long in a complex dune formation you will end up digging the car in as too much torque will be eventually transmitted to the sands surface. Greater success is acheived by shorter bursts of power which keep up momentum and allow the car to "skate" across, around the side of and crest over the dunes - always looking to drive on and hug a dune face, rather than driving directly between dunes where the sand will often provide less purchase. Basically thinking about driving S's as opposed to straight lines and giving acceleration when the car has compression on the sands surface.}

2) The potential lack of control in an automatic car when going downhill. Whilst it is fine if you have managed to read the road / piste ahead and select the appropriate gear, if you are taken by suprise and find yourself in too high a gear it can be hair-raising. At least with a manual you always know what gear you are in and can make the appropriate changedown quickly. Admittedly I'm sure that this second point can be overcome with more experience of an automatic transmission.

3) Fuel economy. Automatics are often a little thirstier. However having said this if you compare the rpm an automatic asks of an engine off-road, to those of a manual you may find this trend is reversed!

[IanC]

I found plenty of unleaded in Morocco proper, but none as soon as you get into Western Sahara (not sure if the change was exactly here, but roughly).