Crossing by camel - maps?

[DanC]

I'm researching a planned east-west saraha crossing by camel that 3 friends and I are hoping to do next year, mainly for the adventure of course, but also to raise money for the children's cancer institute of australia. Currently our rough route is from Red Sea near Cairo, Siwa, Al Jaghbub, Sebha, Ghat, Djanet, Tamanrasset(hoping that the situation in Southern Algeria dies down a bit by then), Bordj Moktar, Timbuktu, Oualata, Tidjikja, Rosso, Dakar.

Our major problem at the moment is maps. We have the Michelin 953, and International Travel Maps - Sahara, but finding anything else of use is next to impossible here in Sydney. Does anyone know where I could get digital copies of the IGN series, the Soviet series or the US Defence series? Thanks in anvance.

~Dan

[Chris Scott]

Have a look at:
http://www.sahara-overland.com/maps
and feed that ITS map to the first camel you see.

For a beginner your route appears sensible not radical (which makes a change) and I presume you have camel experience in Aust but it is still a big task to attempt with no previous in North Af. Guides and camel acquisition will be a big headache.
I know you did not ask MHO but I thought I'd give it anyway ;-).

Also, why not try and follow Tropic of Cancer where poss (eg Alg) - it would be a good gimmick for your charity and you could call the trip Operation Cancer...

Ch

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Author of Sahara Overland and the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, among other things

http://www.sahara-overland.com

[andrasz]

You can get the russian 1:500000 series on CD from QuoVadis

You will have difficulty finding desertworthy camels in Egypt, the Nile valley breed are pretty much worthless for longer desert trips. Your best bet to get seasoned animals would be from the Sinai or Eastern desert bedouins.

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Happy Travels,
Andras

FJ Expeditions

[Toby2]

Thought this might be useful.

John Hare who wrote an excellent book about working with and looking for Bactarian Camels in the Taklamakan, Lop Nur, Gashan Gobi and Outer Gobi regions of Asia has recently completed a 3 1/2 month exped from northern Nigeria to Libya trekking with Camels. There is quite a good write up and some great photos in the National Geographic magazine on it and the book is due out mid 2003.

[Jochen]

As Andrasz mentioned above, to find suitable camels will be your biggest problem! Read the book "Sand Dance" http://www.brucekirkby.com/ , 3 Canadians crossed the Empty Quarter by camels, you will get some insight there. I guess you have read the classic "Crossing the sands" by Sir Wilfred Thesiger?

Good luck, Jochen

[DanC]

Thanks for the warning on obtaining Camels, we didn't realise how domesticised the Nile camels would be. Luckily enough we have the help of someone who has crossed the Sahara west-east by camel before, so hopefully together we can find some quality camels.

Thanks also for the book reccomendations (I'm currently halfway through your "Sahara Overland" Chris) and the russian map series link. I am however still after any other map series that I can get on disc, as we would like to compare maps for accuracy. Does anyone know where I could get a copy of the IGN series on disc?

Thanks again.
~Dan

[overlander]

- a couple of good reads about crossing the Sahara albeit from west to east are 'The Fearful Void' by Geoffrey Moorhouse and 'Imposssible Journey(!) by Michael Asher.

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desertman

[andrasz]

Your point on the accuracy of maps is a valid one, but should not be too concerned. The russian maps are accurate to within no more than one kilometre error, and practically all features marked on the map are large enough to be visible at such distance. For critical wells it's advisable to stock up on confirmed GPS points, but other than these any good 1:500000 is more than enough for your needs.

I did quite a bit of navigation in the trackless interior of the Libyan Desert based on the much more inaccurate Survey of Egypt 1:500000 series (surveyed and drawn in the thirties, no update since), in open desert where major features are visible for 40-50 kilometres, 3-4 km map error does not pose any problems.

If you wish to have absolute precision, the calibrated 25 metre/pixel resolution landsat images from NASA can be downloaded for free. (You need a free browser plugin to view them). These images can be imported into Ozi or other major GPS software, and you have perfect accuracy.

Check the landsat images link on my website if you're interested in details.

Happy Travels,
Andras

FJ Expeditions


[This message has been edited by andrasz (edited 26 May 2003).]

[Chris Scott]

The IGNs (west of west Libya) are available from Darrs in Munich - link of the .../maps page. Wolfgang S there speaks English.
Available up to 200,000 (incredible detail but a bit OTT), I have to say these would be much more useful than all the calibrated sats in space, even if they are interesting to look at.

Chris S

[overlander]

- a couple of good reads about crossing the Sahara albeit from west to east are 'The Fearful Void' by Geoffrey Moorhouse and 'Imposssible Journey(!) by Michael Asher.

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desertman

[andrasz]

Agree with Chris, satelite photos are no substitute for good maps. I was a bit imprecise, what I meant to say was that if you need absolute precision, you can identify objects from a map on the satelite images, then get a very exact position reading.

There are areas though where a map will simply be blank, yet the satelite images will make all the difference. With some serious misgivings on will work, I plotted a 240km route accross the great sand sea in Egypt using only the landsat images a few months ago. To my relief and amazement we made the trip I estimated to be at least three days in little over a single full day. Without the landsat photos it would have been at least three times longer, constantly backtracking from blocked alleys and getting stuck in bad spots.

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Happy Travels,
Andras

FJ Expeditions

[DanC]

The wells are definately our biggest concern for accuracy, so where can we get an up to date list of wells with GPS co-ordinates?

~Dan

[coolkarim]

I couldnt find a well between and Tichit and Oulata (mauritania) and almost didnt survive. see my site below. be careful, some regions are really remote and extreme.

good luck
Karim

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karim@desertbiking.co.uk
www.desertbiking.co.uk

[Chris Scott]

There is no easy answer for wells which is why you will need a guide for certain stages - your previous trans Sahara guy would know this.
Otherwise you will have to stick to the most obvious route - at times following a road (which would have originally been a camel trail between wells anyway - p.10).

Anyway, as far as I can tell your route is moderate and so will pass many established wells.

As Karim found, you cannot rely on well positions from 30-year old maps. In some places (as I've found in Libya) they have dried up while in others (Alg & Mori) they have sunk new ones for the nomads.

Local knowledge is vital IMHO unless you carry over-large reserves.

Ch

[ursula]

What about books in french?

"Nomade Blanc"
Philippe Frey
édition Robert Laffont
Traversée du Sahara en solitaire

There is a well between Tichit and Oualata not far from the piste:
"Mauritanie au GPS"
Cyril Ribas
http://www.takla-makane.com/pages/livre01.htm