Crossing border from Lybia to Niger - said to be not possible

[Jos van Diepen]

Hi,

I am in contact with a Libian guide who is supposed to arrange an invitation and visa for Lybia for me.

I told him my plan is to move on from Lybia to Niger. Now he tells me he spoke to authorities who told him that it is not possible to cross the border from Lybia to Niger dus to security-reasons. They say I can just go out through Rasjdier the border with Tunisia or Amssaed the one to Egypt.

This does not suit my plan at all.
Now I have two questions:

1. how serious should I take his message?
2. Is Tunisia-Algeria-Niger a feasable option?

Thanks, Jos

[Chris Scott]

1. how serious should I take his message?

Unless something has changed for the worst recently (and its hasn't as far as I know), I would not take it too seriously. I recall other people being told by their 'guides' it can't be done, but it is regularly done; they are even extending the road to Tumu. Perhaps they lose some pay days by you not coming back to the north or their is some official ruling, but for Tumy/Niger it is not so strict as for Chad, Sudan and Alg.
Leave them at El Gatrun and the bloke in the fort will sort you out.


2. Is Tunisia-Algeria-Niger a feasable option?
Of course and with more options too - more news about that in a few days.

Ch

[Yves]

Try to get more information via sahara.it:
http://www.sahara.it/cgi-perl/ubb/ul...&f=25&t=000010
Yves

[Budrinna]

The message from the guide has to be taken very seriously .

It report " shorly" the latest (02-07-2006) regulations adopted in border's crossing for tourism purpose ( expeditions included ) under the Khufra south Line. So not only Niger is concerned but Egypt ,Sudan, Tchad.

Others: travelling Eweinat area not allowed .

Salam

Budrinna

[ursula]

hi
I am afraid that this is true - an italian groupe did not get permission to leave Libya for Niger in these days
Ursula

[Chris Scott]

Oh well, looks like I may have missed my chance to do the 'Marlboro Piste' for the moment - but one door closes and another opens.
I hear that new Algerian regs mean you can now come and go between Djanet and Chirfa (Route A15) officially, and even check out from Bordj El Haouas (old Fort Gardel) via the Oued Taffassasset to Chrifa (a very nice route which we vaguely paralleled off piste on Desert Riders in 2003). And least likely of all, via In Azaoua to Iferounane and the Aïr - the original colonial trans Sahara route pioneered by the Lamy Expedition (I think) and closed for as long as I've known about it.
Fuller details on my Sahara news page in a few days.

Ch
(as you can see I have just discovered E x t e n d e d Formatting ;-)

[roro]

Oh no : My plan was to do this piste this winter .
Please , Chris , tell us if it's really possible to cross Algerian/Nigerian border near Djanet .
Have you the coordinates of a good agency to do that ?
Thanks

RR.

[Chris Scott]

>>>... tell us if it's really possible to cross Algerian/Nigerian border near Djanet .

Well I have not done it myself but this is what I hear. Soon someone (maybe you) will come back with the positive news.


>>>... Have you the coordinates of a good agency to do that ?

On Route A15 you dont need a guide -there are balises every km at times - but of course a guide is obligatory in Alg. Do they turn back at the border balise - who knows?
For agencies see: http://www.sahara-overland.com/country/algeria.htm
(this page will be updated soon)

Ch

[Richard Washington]

Thanks for the confirmation, Budrinna.

Please tell us what the security problem on this route is all about.
Has there been a problem on this route? If so, what happened and when?

Or is it that the authorities have just decided to change the rules (again).

[Budrinna]

Mr Richard it is not a question of routes or changes in rules but confirmation and strengthening of those in force after heavy damages occurred to the national Libyan heritage trough increasing cases of guide’s corruption and diverting carried by groups (four yet counted) of foreign professional looters scouring of late in El Awynat djebel and all along itineraries as Namus- Ribiana and Kufra - Tikru.

El Ewaynat area is actually under international bid for geological mapping and to be gradually extended up to Algeria’s border.

Salam
Budrinna

[Chris Scott]

Thanks for the explanation Budrinna but surely if official Libyan guides are being 'corrupted and diverted' by looters in the areas mentioned (if I understand correctly) then what is to stop this practice happening elsewhere in Libya - in places like the Akakus where there might actually be something worth looting? By this rationale should not all Libyan tourism be suspended?
Libya is of course free to impose travel restrictions in remote border areas as it sees fit - many countries do so and perhaps the planned mineral exploration of the south is the real explanation. Me, I am still baffled by exactly what there is to loot between Namus and Kufra? Compared to the far more valuable Roman relics in the north, it would take a ton of the very best grinding stones and hand axes to cover the expense of such a trip - and all the cream was pilfered years ago right across the Sahara during the colonial era.
If these 'professional looters' we keep hearing about are such a threat why doesn't Libya publicly 'name and shame' them as the Algerians did in early 2005 near Djanet? That was probably a set up - a deserved reaction to the Rolling Rover business, but we all got the message loud and clear: respect the local regs.

Ch

[Budrinna]

Thank for your instructive argumetnations but please read or be informed about our local press. You will find an answer to most of your questions included latest Libyan grinding stones price’s on specific international markets. They are highly rated and priced !
Our Gov. latest assessment for tourism investment is about six billion dollars , inclusive of the quote for national heritage conservation. Why should we close now ?

Salamat

Budrinna

[Chris Scott]

Looks like grinding stones are a lot more valuable than I thought (see: http://www.paleodirect.com/orcap-073.htm). It may explain why Gatrun to Tumu is now closed to tourists, as I believe this section was usually done without an escort.

Ch

[Jos van Diepen]

Hello Budrina,

Can you tell or estimate for how long the border will be closed? My application for a visa and my itinerary depends on it... I hope(d) to cross the Libyan border to Niger early october. Any chance it will be open by then?

Thanks, Jos

[Budrinna]

Difficult to give an answer on short time basis . Others talks scheduled in coming months ... but most lies on the immagration's hassles toward Med sea coast's.

Budrinna