Bad news about Mali hostage

[twenty4seven]

Maybe the British are safer now because there is no financial gain from kidnapping a British person.

[Ulrich]

Hello, twenty4seven

I think You have too much dewy-eyed optimism.

Do You think they look first Your passport before they catch You?

Regards

Ulrich

[motoreiter]

Originally Posted by Ulrich

Do You think they look first Your passport before they catch You?

They might not look at your passport, but if the kidnappings are planned at all (as I suspect they are) I would guess the kidnappers know something about the victims, including nationality, before they take them.

[Richard Washington]

Originally Posted by motoreiter

They might not look at your passport, but if the kidnappings are planned at all (as I suspect they are) I would guess the kidnappers know something about the victims, including nationality, before they take them.

In the case of the Canadian diplomats, AQ-M definitely knew who they were and what their travel plans were and staged the ambush on this info which ironically was meant to make the travel of the Canadians safer. I reckon in the case of the tourists taken after the music festival, their nationality might not have been that well established - just that they looked European. Kidnapping of europeans is part of the business plan now all the way from Somalia, through Chad to Niger/Mali.

[priffe]

Originally Posted by Chris Scott

Maghreb News

2009-11-05 The al-Qaeda emir responsible for executing British hostage Edwin Dyer last May was gravely injured in a clash with Algerian troops in Adrar, El Khabar and Journal Tahalil reported on Wednesday (November 4th). Hamid Essouffi, aka Abdel Hamid Abou Zeid, leads the "Taregh ibn Ziyad" brigade. The katibate is one of four such brigades operating in al-Qaeda's Southern Zone, the Sahara-Sahel region stretching from northeast Mauritania to Somalia. Essouffi allegedly ordered the beheading last September of 11 Mauritanian soldiers kidnapped in Aklet Tourine.

It is strange that they just report that he was "gravely injured". Doesn't even mention if he was captured? I have found no other infiormation.

[priffe]

Originally Posted by Richard Washington

In the case of the Canadian diplomats, AQ-M definitely knew who they were and what their travel plans were and staged the ambush on this info which ironically was meant to make the travel of the Canadians safer. I reckon in the case of the tourists taken after the music festival, their nationality might not have been that well established - just that they looked European. Kidnapping of europeans is part of the business plan now all the way from Somalia, through Chad to Niger/Mali.

It appears that most kidnappings are well planned and not random. In the case of the Canadians, there are even reasons to believe the Niger governemnt was involved to some degree.
Some nationalities should be more desireable to kidnap, such as germans/austrians/swiss - their governements will pay up without quibbling like the brits do. :/

[noel di pietro]

Hi,

Planning a trip (independent by 4x4) to WA first half 2010, including Mauritania and Mali. What area should I avoid to minimise the risk of encountering these Al-Q chaps?

Cheers,

Noel

[Richard Washington]

Originally Posted by priffe

It appears that most kidnappings are well planned and not random. In the case of the Canadians, there are even reasons to believe the Niger governemnt was involved to some degree.
Some nationalities should be more desireable to kidnap, such as germans/austrians/swiss - their governements will pay up without quibbling like the brits do. :/

Agree that some nationalities will be more desirable to the kidnappers in monetary terms. But I think GB nationality stiil remains desirable for other reasons, like political leaverage and reputation of AQ-M. Being able to demand release of prisoners must help AQ-M to be perceived as politically motivated rather than just simple bandits - regardless of what their actual status and motive is. It would be harder for them to recruit their well disciplined rank and file and to keep their rank and file under harsh conditions in the desert during the long kidnappings if it were clear to all that their sole motive was banditry.

I agree that the kidnappings are well planned and not random but the issue of nationality may still not be a key part of the planning exercise.

I remember reading in one of the press reports that the kidnappers were disappointed at finding out the nationality of some of the kidnapped. To me that suggested that the kidnappers were aiming at European tourists generally but didn't know their precise nationality. Also, taking several at once helps to spread the likelihood of payment, however complicated that makes the negotiations.

Seems that overall the best tactic to minimise kidnapping is random travel plans the details of which are kept a very close secret. Hard to do when vehicle tracks are obvious and when replenishing fuel, food and water in small settlements.

[Richard Washington]

Originally Posted by noel di pietro

Hi,

Planning a trip (independent by 4x4) to WA first half 2010, including Mauritania and Mali. What area should I avoid to minimise the risk of encountering these Al-Q chaps?

Five Million dollar question!

If you take a look at the kidnappings that have happened so far, we see that the modis has been different.

1. 32 kidnapped in 2003 seem to have been taken from bottleknecks/defiles or well known waypoints, with a strong hint that the position of the tourists was posted on ahead from checkpoints. Others were simply discovered by chance getting something to eat on the side of the piste. But a particular area was definitely chosen not too far from the kidnappers HQ which had been carefully planned and set up over several months. The area was close to the start of the desert pistes when entering from N Algeria/Tunisia

2. The taking of the Austrians in Tunisia was quite a surprise to me because of the difficulty of transporting them all the way through Libya/Algeria to N Mali. Like those in (1), the Austrians were guide free. AQ-M seemed to like the proximity to the Libya/Algerian border, so they could perhaps dip in and out knowing that by the time Algeria and Libya got into dialogue, they'd be in N Mali. But the disadvantage of having to traverse several thousand kilometers set against the advantage of finding tourists in Tunisia is something I dont understand. They could also have found tourists near Tam in Algeria.

3. The Canadian diplomats got taken on the back of leaked travel plans.

4. Those kidnapped from the music festival must have been generally earmarked as good potential - i.e. the place & time of the festival was known and fixed. Intelligence from the festival would no doubt have fed through as to when they were leaving and on what track. They were taken close to the Mali-Niger border/


So what are the common threads?
a) being close to borders
b) known events or known travel plans or areas which are popular through which tourists pass reasonably frequently -i.e. some element of predictability
c) big bad luck


I have not exactly answered the question about where to avoid. But if I were AQ-M I'd hang out in the east of Mauri waiting for tourists on the eastern most tracks to Mali. Close to the borders, predictable, some traffic if you wait enough and lots of open space not so far away.

[priffe]

Mali north of Gao and Timbuktu is the short answer to the question of where not to go.

Depressingly, incidents over the last few years has shown that you can encounter these AQIM guys anywhere between Nouakchott and Tunisia.

Behaviour is important. It was pointed out to us by the locals last trip that we were hanging around Tamanrasset area for too long (11 days, involuntarily), and that people were talking. Our guide told everyone we were going to Mali over Tin Zahouatine, Then we went over Timiaouine instead.
We encountered people in the Mali desert that could be best described as "Arab businessmen". The guide said after they left that they would now be on their cell phones making our presence known.
No reason to be paranoid, but every reason to be cautious.
Contrary to some list members, I don't think it adds to the excitement of being in the desert.

[Richard Washington]

Originally Posted by priffe

Our guide told everyone we were going to Mali over Tin Zahouatine, Then we went over Timiaouine instead.
.

Did you change plans because the guide had made your route too well known or was this change part of the plan that your guide was aware of?

[AliBaba]

Back in November 2001 we were two bikes going from Djanet to Tam.
This was shortly after USA invaded Afghanistan and the rumors said that AQ had established training camps north of Djanet.

When we passed the fort in Serouenout we were stopped and the army asked a lot more questions then they usually do. They were very interesting in where we were going and where we would camp.
Anyway, we passed the fort and continued driving. Directly before it got dark we left the piste to camp. Since we hadn’t seen people for the entire and it was getting dark we parked pretty close to the piste.
After a few hours we saw the lights from a car approaching slowly. The piste is not that good and it must be a nightmare to drive after dark. We regretted that we had parked that close to the piste but decided not to move.
We sat in the dark and watched the car approaching very slowly, a few hundreds meters away the car stopped and we saw people (civilian) getting out. They where standing in the front of the car watching the piste (or our tracks). This happened several times and suddenly they stopped maybe 25 metres away from us. We could see that they carried guns and we sat totally quiet, partly behind a big rock. They where staring at the ground before they started to stare directly in our direction, luckily it was completely dark.
After a while they continued…

When we got to Ideles the next morning people knew that we were going to Tam via Assekrem. This info must have come from the soldiers in Serouenout. For some reason people were tense and it was not a very friendly place but we stayed for a few hours to get petrol (petrol station had no petrol and people told us there were no petrol in town). We tried to buy some food but it was impossible, everything was sold out. That’s strange, it has never happened to me before or after.

We sat beside the bikes trying to figure out what to do when we couldn’t get any petrol when some kids came along and started to chat. My friend told them that he would pay them if they could get petrol and after a while they brought us to a guy who sold us 13 liters. He didn’t seem happy about it…

Because of the shortage of petrol we decided to skip Assekrem and went to Tam.via In Amguel.


So why do I write this? What does it mean?
To be honest I don’t know but I learned a few things:

-Don’t tell people where you are going
-Park far from the piste
-Don’t camp before it’s getting dark
-Be careful with lights

[priffe]

Originally Posted by Richard Washington

Did you change plans because the guide had made your route too well known or was this change part of the plan that your guide was aware of?

This was the way our guide planned it - he didn't tell the gendarmes or even us that we were going over Timiaouine instead of Tin Zahouatin until we were well on our way.
The tour operator we contacted for assisting with finding the right guide broke a nervous sweat when I showed him pictures of my kids (after he had showed pics of his). "We will do our very best".
The guide in this area should be a touareg from Kidal.

[Richard Washington]

Originally Posted by priffe

Mali north of Gao and Timbuktu is the short answer to the question of where not to go.
.

Been quite a lot of military focus on this region in N and NE Mali recently. Hard therefore to tell whether strongholds have been dislodged. But the advice is well good - steer clear!. Again, if I were AQ-M i'd be thinking E Mauri.

[priffe]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

To be honest I don’t know but I learned a few things:

-Don’t tell people where you are going
-Park far from the piste
-Don’t camp before it’s getting dark
-Be careful with lights

Good thinking.
Honestly we also didn't know what was going on exactly. Or who to trust 100%.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could feel secure enough with your campfire that when strangers suddenly appear out of the dark you would simply be happy to have someone to drink tea with?

Was it ever like that in the Sahara?