Bad news about Mali hostage

[motoreiter]

Originally Posted by Caminando

On a point of accuracy, there is no indication in the news reports that the victim was English, as some here have said.

Eh? One of the articles quotes the British PM as saying "We have strong reason to believe that a British citizen, Edwin Dyer, has been murdered by an al-Qaeda cell in Mali."

If your point is that he could be Welsh or Scottish instead of English, why does that matter?

[priffe]

As I was in Kidal only a couple weeks ago, coming in from Tamanrasset over Timiaouine, I made a lot of inquiries, certainly out of curiousity but also out of concern for our own safety.
Some tuaregs claimed to have actually sighted the kidnapped in the desert. The word at the time was that they were held in the region where the three countries meet. Now I heard that Dyer was murdered in Niger where the Swiss guy is still being held?
Like Chris said, the kidnappings are not random but planned. The odd tourist quickly passing through (like ourselves) is less at risk than people visitng the festivals or staying in the area.
Tuareg involvement - with the criminal activities going on in the desert tuaregs will usually claim that this is run by "arabs" and the role of the tuareg is, as in other lines of business, mostly limited to being a guide or driver.
Then again there are many with mixed arab/tuareg heritage so it is not really a question of ethnicity. The question is if the tuaregs as a group should carry the blame for what is going on, and I think not.
AQIM seems much more like a bunch of criminals to me than people driven by religious or ideological zeal. Their affiliation with Al Qaeda has been questioned.

[Caminando]

Originally Posted by motoreiter

Eh? One of the articles quotes the British PM as saying "We have strong reason to believe that a British citizen, Edwin Dyer, has been murdered by an al-Qaeda cell in Mali."

If your point is that he could be Welsh or Scottish instead of English, why does that matter?

Eh?.........

[Ulrich]

Hello Chris,

In this part of the Sahara (Tuareg/Berabish) there was no precedent for 'bandits' taking hostages for money until 2003 - and GSPC were not bandits.

ok, no bandits, what than? Everybody knows, that they have been used from the algerian generallity for kidnapping us (was 2005 or so, after General Lamari left the army, that in an Algerian online-newspaper was written that our kidnapping was staged by the Army and Lamari was involved. Don't remember which one). And why our kidnapping happened? - Algeria want's to become a better number in the world so they could say to the Americans: Hey, we stay together in our fight against the terrorism in the Sahel, but You must help us.

Ok, now they call themselves "Al Qaeda", but it's still the GSPC and the kidnapping today was made by the same persons as by our kidnapping. So what now, again the Algerian Army involved? May be yes. The only interesting fact is: The Americans want the oil in the Sahel Region.

By the way: Why Abderrezak el Para, the former leader of the GSPC and chef of our kidnapping is in Constaninopel jailed, but stays free and is a well known "businessman"? He was sentenced several times in absence to death and many years of prison, but never arrived in front of the court. - Of course, cause then he could talk things which aren't allowed to be heart.

Regards

Ulrich

P.S.: Just found, read it: RPT-ANALYSIS-Al Qaeda's Sahara wing blend terror with business | News by Country | Reuters

[Richard K]

Clearly the AQIM are not operating in isolation in these areas, if they are well-funded why would they struggle like that? They need guides, supplies and co-operation...and Touareg and Berabish people have been offering those services at market price for centuries. That is a million miles away from them being involved or responsible as collectives.

"It takes long-term commitment to be burdened with keeping hostages alive and negotiating a ransom with their governments - more than just greed and a handful of Thurayas."

Surely. Although take a look at Somalia, this kind of industry can develop fast, complete with established brokers and agreed models of exchange. The fact that ransoms are involved at all shows that 'business' is in the mix.

Mali safe? Sadly not everywhere and not all of the time.

[Toyark]

Originally Posted by Caminando

I wonder how many Europeans will go to next year's Festival au Desert, where it appears Mr. Dyer was coming from.

Slight correction if I may Caminando re: the above.

Mr Dyer seems to have attended the Festival of Anderamboukane and not the Festival de la Musique in Essakane which is north west of Tombouctou.
Anderamboukane is a frontier town on the Malian side of the Mali-Niger border. It is approximately 450 bumpy Km from Gao and 100 Km past the last major town of Menaka.
Mali is such a wonderful country with mostly very pleasant people. When I was there last, a French Family (bar 1) was murdered near Aleg-
As to whether this will have an effect on the one in Essakane- who knows- we live in a very turbulent world.
Terrible shame for Mr Dyer- condolences to his family

[Chris Scott]

Ulrich, thanks for reminding me that 2003 was almost certainly not how it was presented - or indeed of the Austrians' mysterious transit in 2008 from Tuni to Mali...

Re: Berabish/Tuareg. My point was IMO the Berabish have a lot more going on down there than is commonly assumed (as I learned when they recovered me off SEQ). For example it's often assumed the famous salt caravans in Niger and Mali are Tuareg affairs, but AFAIK they are hired in by Hausa or Berabish merchants.
Fair point about Somali. I wonder if 'established brokers' (doing nicely out of the 'harmless' heists as reported recently) are in on deals like this.

.....Festival au Desert, where it appears Mr. Dyer was coming from.

I did read in one report that the Oase Reisen tour was coming from Essakane and heading for Anderamboukane (and then presumably heading for Niamey to fly back?), but it's not impossible the media got in a muddle over their Malian desert festivals.

Ch

[Caminando]

Originally Posted by Bertrand

Slight correction if I may Caminando re: the above.

Mr Dyer seems to have attended the Festival of Anderamboukane and not the Festival de la Musique in Essakane which is north west of Tombouctou.
Anderamboukane is a frontier town on the Malian side of the Mali-Niger border. It is approximately 450 bumpy Km from Gao and 100 Km past the last major town of Menaka.
Mali is such a wonderful country with mostly very pleasant people. When I was there last, a French Family (bar 1) was murdered near Aleg-
As to whether this will have an effect on the one in Essakane- who knows- we live in a very turbulent world.
Terrible shame for Mr Dyer- condolences to his family

Thanks Bertrand - I thought it was the Essakane one. I've thought about this man's lonely situation and how appalling it must have been for him when no help was forthcoming, if that were even possible. A really bad event.

[roro]

"Why Abderrezak el Para, the former leader of the GSPC and chef of our kidnapping is in Constaninopel jailed, but stays free and is a well known "businessman"? He was sentenced several times in absence to death and many years of prison, but never arrived in front of the court."

I'm interested where did you find this info, I believed is was jailed in Algeria.

RR.

[Toyark]

Originally Posted by Caminando

Thanks Bertrand - I thought it was the Essakane one. I've thought about this man's lonely situation and how appalling it must have been for him when no help was forthcoming, if that were even possible. A really bad event.

yes he must have been in a very very 'dark place all alone' - one cannot fathom the terrible shock and fear he must have faced when he knew it was the end- Such a waste of a human life- and for what... may he rest in peace-

[Richard Washington]

Just catching up on this sad news having been in SE Angola for a few weeks.

There are many interesting posts on this thread. I wanted, though, to add another angle. I have long worried that the UK Foreign Office would be of no help if a UK citizen ran into trouble in the Sahara. They lack the contacts and an informed approach in these sort of hostage situations. Recall the Iran-UK Navy drama.

But I would not have predicted that the UK govt would simply abandon someone to their death. OK, if their principle is not to pay ransom and that leads to death of the hostage, then why not send in some special forces guys to see if they can do the liberation differently - as the French have done in the Somalia pirate attacks recently. If there's a real threat of death, then they may as well have a go.

[Ulrich]

Hello RR,

articles from Algeria concerning El Para (in French, translate Yourself with Google):

El Watan :: 4 mars 2008 :: Abderrezak El Para jugé le 24 mars

El Watan :: 26 mars 2008 :: Le procès d’El Para reporté

Echorouk Online - Two dangerous terrorists wanted by Batna’s criminal court

Echorouk Online - Algeria : Abderrazek Al Para, 60 other terrorists before justice in Batna

Algérie 2003*: l’affaire des «*otages du Sahara*», décryptage d’une manipulation

" Al-Qaida au Maghreb ", ou la très étrange histoire du GSPC algérien

Regards

Ulrich

[Richard K]

"Re: Berabish/Tuareg. My point was IMO the Berabish have a lot more going on down there than is commonly assumed (as I learned when they recovered me off SEQ).

Last December I was told if you want goods transported or guidance from A to B you will be speaking to the Berabish and if you want to make sure those goods arrive safely then you may be speaking to the Touareg. Some of the Berabish I've met around Timbuctu see themselves as part of the Touareg community so it becomes blurry (again!).

Originally Posted by Richard Washington

why not send in some special forces guys to see if they can do the liberation differently - as the French have done in the Somalia pirate attacks recently. If there's a real threat of death, then they may as well have a go.

The French have their base in Djibouti, so you can see how they do what they do in Somalia, but how would the British go about a rescue in Mali or Niger? Via the US in Mali/Niger?

[Richard Washington]

Originally Posted by Caminando

Not the best example, Richard. The UK encroached Iranian territory, and were legally arrested accordingly.

This poor man was totally innocent, a non combatant, abducted and murdered.

I agree that there is a clear difference in circumstances between Iran and this sad event. But the point I intended to make was a different one, namely that in my opinion, the UK Government did not handle the negotiations well in the Iran case. In fact Iran seemed to run rings round the UK Foreign Office and Iran was in control until the incident ended. If this was any indication of how well the UK is able to negotiate in these sort of North African/Middle Eastern/Arabic settings (I know Iran isn't Arabic), then you can see why they failed completely in this event in Mali/Niger. The message seems to be that UK nationals are on their own out there. The Foreign Office just takes one strong line and has no Plan B.

[roro]

Thanks Ulrich or your infos.
I've also heard that El Para had given declarations to give up terrorism against civilians (but I can't find this link anymore).
RR.