Route Croatia-Switzerland-Bavaria and back

[STmateo]

Hi all,
I am planing a route from Split (Croatia, where I live) to Switzerland.
I will be there driving arround for few days and continue to Bavaria (Germany).
Also, I will stay there for few days and drive arround and then I will head back to Croatia.
Can you advise some good route and places to see?

Also, gear for the trip, because this is my first big trip (small for you maybe, but big for me). I am still not sure about the list of gear I need to carry with me...
I drive Yamaha TDM900, here are some photos of the bike:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/img0924sx.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/img0927jk.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/img0930a.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/img0933v.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/91291983.jpg/

[Tourider]

Andermatt in Switzerland is a good base for riding some excellent passes (Gotthard, Furka, Susten, Grimsel, Oberalp, etc.). There's a decent camp site on the egde of town opposite the ski-lift or any number of hotels in town.
The Berchtesgaden area of Bavaria is beautiful and historic and only a short ride from Salzburg in Austria.

[STmateo]

I agree, Andermatt looks nice, I just checked it on the wikipedia.
I was planing Gotthard pass anyway. From there I will be able to explore around.
How is the camp site, can you tell me more about it? I prefer camps to hotels.

[Tourider]

The camp site is flat with a good grass covering, right on the edge of town. The office and showers are part of the ski-lift building on the north side of the road and the site is on the south side of the road. I think I paid about £8 per night but that was about 5 years ago.

[tumnus]

Hi,
I'm from Switzerland and I'm planning a trip from Lausanne to Dubrovnik across Austria and Slovenia. And back to Switzerland by north Italy.

Andermatt is a good place, in 3 hours without stop you can do 4 of the big passes of the Alps, Sustenpass, Grimsselpass, Nufenenpass, St-Gotthard pass by the old road (Tremola). It's beautiful but don't come before June, this pass are open between end of May and Octobre.

Andermatt à Andermatt - Google Maps

If you have some question don't hesitate to ask! I'll try to help if I can!

I don't know the camp site in Andermatt so I can't give any advices about it.

CU

Alain

[STmateo]

Hi Alain,
Thanks for your kind offer and advice. Map looks great, some locations I already marked but I will use what you proposed, looks better than my plan.
I seen photos of tha passes and landscape around, and I think I will need a lot more than 3 hours, since I will stop all the time to see all those nice views I will probably take a whole day for that parcel.

Since I am from Croatia, and I passed many times the road which you are planing to pass, we can help each other. Also, ask whatever you want to know.

If anything, at least we can leave a lots of useful info in this conversation, here on HUBB for other travelers.

[PanEuropean]

STmateo:

It can get quite cold at higher altitudes in the Swiss Alps at night. I'm not sure that camping out would be a pleasant activity if it is cold at night.

In Switzerland, there is a superb network of hostels. All ages are welcome. You can get more information at their website: Swiss Youth Hostels.

For the trip from Croatia to Switzerland, I highly recommend riding through the Dolomite area of Italy, and entering Switzerland at the extreme south-east corner, then riding up the Engadine valley. It is spectacular.

Michael

[STmateo]

No camping, not even in July? That's too bad... I was really looking forward to that experience... How cold is cold? +10 C ??

Thanks fot the website, there is lots of info there. I will study it more.

Regarding the route, THIS is what I have so far. My approach is from Lake Como in Italy. Can you place your route suggestion on the map, like you did before?

[rockwallaby]

STmateo, your first post was two weeks ago, and you only mentioned you will be riding around for a few days, but you don't say when you will do this.

Depending on what you have for camp and sleeping equipment, but if you have reasonably good gear and if your plans are from June onwards, you will be fine, really. There is many people out camping at that time of year.

I road through the Swiss Alps last year on my TDM, camping all the way. Most of the camps are in the lower down valleys, where it is the temperature is fine, sometimes too warm still.

For about two months I was camping at above 1000 metre level each night. It was wonderful, the air is not so humid, and I will plan to do the same this year.

Just need the right camping equipment for the conditions, tent, sleeping mat, sleeping bag and maybe some thermals if you need. Pack your camera, some clothes and what ever else you need that can fit on the bike and then ride. I understand for you this is a big trip and it is easy to worry about going into unknown territory. Trust yourself and those worries will dissipate with each kilometre and the smile becomes more permanent.

Imagine, I'm wanting to ride to where you are, Croatia and to visit Split, and so I have feelings of anxiousness as it's a long way from anywhere I know. But, I am determined, so I go.
_____
Paul

[STmateo]

Hi Paul,
sorry i wasn't clear about my departure date, but that is because I can never be sure... I work on an oil rig and although my contract is 2 months, I can never be sure when exactly am I going to be back home. That is why I only have a rough plan, to go in July or August.

I have camping gear which I use only in summer time (2 people tent, cheap sleeping bag and mat) but I think the weather will not be so extreme... anyway, my motorcycle jacket and trousers are warm enough if it gets too cold... you think that is enough?
I will combine camping and hostels because of hot shower, laundry service and some other stuff that you cant find in a tent

If you have some list of camps where you been in Switzerland I would appreciate it.

Yes, I consider this a big trip, because I didn't do any bigger before

I am sure you will have a good time in Europe, Croatia and Split...
I have seen your blog, it looks good. Check "subscribe" option, because I think it's not working properly...
Your TDM looks in great condition.

[PanEuropean]

STmateo:

Below is a map showing (in red) the route I recommend. You will have to double-check it to make sure I have not routed you over a mountain with no roads (the map scale is pretty big), but I have travelled that route many times going from Switzerland down to Pula for holidays, and I can assure you, it is awesome riding with lots of passes.

You DON'T want to spend 1 kilometer more than necessary on that east-west motorway that goes across Italy from Trieste to Milan. It is boring as heck, flat as a pancake, and full of trucks. Plus the road itself is in poor condition. That A4 is the worst possible road to ride if you are on a motorcycle holiday.

Get off the A4 motorway at the A23 / E55 (turnoff to Udine) and then take the secondary roads north. The land is quite flat until you get to Maniago, then, WOW! You are in the Dolomites, with fantastic riding, excellent (secondary) roads, good food, and civilized people. From Cortina, to the north and the west, everyone speaks both Italian and German (the place used to be part of Austria), and it is culturally very different - in a good way - from Italy.

From Merano, follow the passes until you get to the junction where Italy, Austria, and Switzerland meet, then enter Switzerland there. That will take you right along the Engadine valley (that valley runs from the entry point to Switzerland all the way to St. Moritz, then a bit further past there), which is spectacular. There are also lots of passes to ride that originate on either side of the Engadine valley, so do not be in too much of a hurry to go north of 'Point D' on your map. In fact, 'Point D' is about the northern limit of where all the alpine passes are.

Perhaps I was not too clear with my comment about 'cold weather'. Andermatt, which you mentioned in one of your posts above, is quite high altitude, so it is reasonable to assume it will be cold at night there except during July and early August. Also, be aware that at the base of mountains, cold air flows downhill from the mountain at night. My suggestion is that if you do have the opportunity to stay in the hostels, do that, simply because they are great places, very social, very clean, you get a shower every day and you don't have to worry about rain (or the security of your motorcycle).

Michael

Suggested Route

[STmateo]

Thank you Michael!
This route you recommended looks much better. I remember A4 motorway from when I went to Venice... It really is exactly what you describe, a terrible road... with terrible drivers
I loaded a new map HERE, so please take a look, I think that is a good way to go, as you described.

"Point D" on the map is Andermatt, that is where I want to stay and explore passes from there...
I will make sure I check the hostels (already doing this)... so depending on the weather I will decide when I get there. I really like to camp, but I also don't want to make it hard for myself, so I will make sure to consider the hostels.

Really thank you guys, your advice is helping more than I could ever expect

[STmateo]

Thank you Michael!
This route you recommended looks much better. I remember A4 motorway from when I went to Venice... It really is exactly what you describe, a terrible road... with terrible drivers
I loaded a new map HERE, so please take a look, I think that is a good way to go, as you described.

"Point D" on the map is Andermatt, that is where I want to stay and explore passes from there...
I will make sure I check the hostels (already doing this)... so depending on the weather I will decide when I get there. I really like to camp, but I also don't want to make it hard for myself, so I will make sure to consider the hostels.

Really thank you guys, your advice is helping more than I could ever expect

[PanEuropean]

Hi STmateao:

Your proposed new route looks fully satisfactory and will be far more enjoyable than the original. I have ridden your new route several times before (travelling from Zurich to Pula), it is quite delightful. Although you could do it in a day (that would be pushing it), my suggestion is that you plan on one day from Croatia to Cortina or Brunico, and another day from that mid-point to St. Moritz. That schedule will make for a very enjoyable ride.

Be aware that fuel is significantly less expensive in Switzerland than in Italy, so arrive in CH with an empty tank, that will save you some money. Also be aware that the Swiss require a 'vignette' (toll sticker) to use the motorways, it costs CHF 40 (about €30). In theory, you could accomplish your entire tour without going on the motorways, but in practice, if you are not familiar with Switzerland, it would probably be best for you to buy one (you can get them at any gas station), that way, you won't have worries if you transit on a motorway for a few miles while moving from one pass to another. For example, around Andermatt, you will have a few 10 or 15 km transits on the motorways to get to the various passes. You could accomplish this without using the motorways, but it would be complicated and confusing. The sticker is good for the whole country, and is valid until the end of the year.

I have only one minor change to suggest to your route, and that is to make your entry to Switzerland via the east end of the Engadine valley, rather than through the big national park at the south end. That is a fractionally longer route, but you will be richly rewarded by the scenery and culture through the Engadine. The route you plotted, through the National Park, is pleasant enough but it is pretty unpopulated through there.

Also, when you get to the St. Moritz area, ask around to determine which pass towards Chur is the more enjoyable one - the one you originally plotted, or the one I have plotted with the red dashed line. I know the 'red dashed line' one - it is good - I cannot recall the more westerly route you plotted.

When do you foresee doing the tour? late May, June, July?

Michael

Minor Suggestions for Route Amendment

[STmateo]

Hi guys,
I changed the route again, as Michael recommended, and now it goes through Engadine valley - see HERE

I also agree on doing this part of the route in 2 days. I really don't like doing more than 400km per day if I don't have to. Prefer to drive for about 5-6 hrs and use the rest of the day to explore by foot the places I visit.
I I think I will sleep in Cortina, looks like interesting place with few interesting things to see. Also found that prices of lodging are reasonable, 30-50 EUR per night. Also, there is a CAMP there, looks nice, so I will have options when I get there.


I know about "vignette", I will make sure I buy one.

As I said, I can't be sure, but from what I know now, I think I will be home in 6 weeks... So I assume I will be off to CH by the end of July or Begining od August.