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  #1  
Old 4 Mar 2009
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Lightbulb India-Pakistan-Iran-Turkey-Europe route. Suggestions?

hi all,

i am planning india to europe trip early summer on enfield. i've done some kind of route planning, mostly with the help of Web browser and Live Maps are incompatible (for india, pakistan and iran) and ViaMichelin: Maps, route planner, route finder, UK maps, European maps, hotel booking, travel guides (from turkey onwards). both sites are quiet helpful, especially michelin for europe and turkey, just live.com seems a bit to underestimate the travel time, therefore i added 30% for their estimations to be more realistic.

in general i've done quiet some trips in india, covering up to 500 km per day, though in some cases it happened that we did only ~200 km in 10 hours (yeah, welcome to india). i would prefer to cruise at 70-90 kmh if road and traffic conditions allow.

on trip to europe i would prefer to have full days on road for up to 10 hours (i prefer to ride only in light) and break days without ride, doing sightseeing and all the tourist stuff, most of all, i'd like to see iran.



the following are my concerns

-------------------

border crossings:

wagah border india to pakistan
pakistan to iran (on the way from quetta to zahedan)
iran to turkey (maku to dogubayazit)
turkey to greeceb (istanbul to thesaloniki)
rest in eu and schengen zone should not be complicated

how long does it take and how complicated it is?
-------------------

visas:

for pakistan ad iran i will have to obtain before leaving, in delhi, it should not be complicated.

may i get visa for turkey on border crossing from iran? at least Visa & Health Information (skyteam.com) says so, but it is more about arrival to the airport with all the facilities, etc. or should i obtain visa in embassy in india in advance, heas anyone reliable info about that?
-------------------

carnet:

any info on obtaining carnet for india registeres vehicle in india? i am a resident in india, therefore no problems with ownership of indian vehicles.
-------------------

route:

here it is for your judgement below are the "days of ride" with distances and time estimations. any comments for that, are they realistic? any suggestions for corrections and for places to stay for "days of breaks"?
  1. delhi - amritsar, 490 km, 8-9 hours
  2. amritsar - lahore, 52 km (on a safer side, most of the day dedicated for border crossing)
  3. lahore - multan, 339 km, 5-6 hours
  4. multan - quetta, 530 km, 8-9 hours
  5. quetta - juzzak, 620 km, 10-11 hours
  6. juzzak - zahedan, 104 km (most of the day for border crossing)
  7. zahedan - bam, 324 km, 5-6 hours
  8. bam - yazd, 561 km, 9-10 hours
  9. yazd - qom, 494 km, 8-9 hours
  10. qom - babol sar, 356 km, 5-6 hours
  11. babol sar - chaf, 266 km, 4-5 hours
  12. chaf - ardabil, 314 km, 5-6 hours
  13. ardabil - tabriz, 207 km, 3-4 hours
  14. tabriz - maku, 250 km, 4-5 hours
  15. maku - dogubayazit, 60 km (most of the day for border crossing)
  16. dogubayazit - bayburt, 401 km, 6-7 hours
  17. bayburt - sinop, 614 km, 9-10 hours
  18. sinop - istanbul, 688 km, 10-11 hours
  19. istanbul - thesaloniki, 609 km, 8-9 hours (provided border crossing is not too complicated)
rest in europe - greece, bulgaria, romania, hungary, slovakia, poland, etc. is pretty clear, almost riding around home anyways

so, i have ~20 days of cruising and could add 10-20 "days off" to that, my prioirity is iran, then pakistan, then turkey, waiting for suggestions
-------------------

any other info on the mentioned route:

  • road conditions?
  • security situation?
  • do's and dont's?
  • insurance requirements in the countries to be crossed, where to get it and how much (i suppose, i will not be able to enter eu without insurance with india registered bike)?
-------------------

thanks in advance for info and see you on the road
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  #2  
Old 5 Mar 2009
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Location: SoOrange NJ USA
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by balis View Post
hi all,

i am planning india to europe trip early summer on enfield.
[SNIP]

the following are my concerns

-------------------

carnet:

any info on obtaining carnet for india registeres vehicle in india? i am a resident in india, therefore no problems with ownership of indian vehicles.
-------------------


thanks in advance for info and see you on the road
Balis,

Carnets (CdP)) are issued by "national automobile club(s)"
In Delhi, that would appear to be

AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION OF UPPER INDIA
AAUI
C-8 institutional Area,
South of IIT,
New Delhi - 110016
INDIA.

Tel : 6965397, 6864521, 6852052
Fax : 91-11-6866302
E-mail :
aauindia@del3.vsnl.net.in


[or]
AAUI

AA Carnet De Passages
2 For advice on taking vehicles overseas temporarily and applications for carnet de passages, contact Jt. Secretary(Finance)
Call: 26965397



good luck on your ride
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  #3  
Old 5 Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balis View Post
hi all,
  1. delhi - amritsar, 490 km, 8-9 hours
  2. amritsar - lahore, 52 km (on a safer side, most of the day dedicated for border crossing)
  3. lahore - multan, 339 km, 5-6 hours
  4. multan - quetta, 530 km, 8-9 hours
  5. quetta - juzzak, 620 km, 10-11 hours
  6. juzzak - zahedan, 104 km (most of the day for border crossing)
  7. zahedan - bam, 324 km, 5-6 hours
  8. bam - yazd, 561 km, 9-10 hours
  9. yazd - qom, 494 km, 8-9 hours
  10. qom - babol sar, 356 km, 5-6 hours
  11. babol sar - chaf, 266 km, 4-5 hours
  12. chaf - ardabil, 314 km, 5-6 hours
  13. ardabil - tabriz, 207 km, 3-4 hours
  14. tabriz - maku, 250 km, 4-5 hours
  15. maku - dogubayazit, 60 km (most of the day for border crossing)
  16. dogubayazit - bayburt, 401 km, 6-7 hours
  17. bayburt - sinop, 614 km, 9-10 hours
  18. sinop - istanbul, 688 km, 10-11 hours
  19. istanbul - thesaloniki, 609 km, 8-9 hours (provided border crossing is not too complicated)

Yeah, throw this information out right away. While the distances may be right the times are as likely to be as accurate as the predictions for the end of the world. You don't want to plan a 9 hour trip and find yourself running late and rushing. Trust me, I did it and it is dangerous. The key is to take your time, relax and enjoy. Trips like this don't come around every day so make the most of it!

The other stuff, visas etc I can't help with. I think I have blagged my way this far to be honest. Overrunning on visas and things like that.

Ride safe,
Ol
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  #4  
Old 5 Mar 2009
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Thanks for the links, CourtFisher!

Hornet, that's why I post it here, at least to get more reliable info, than someone's assumption somewhere in Redmond, that you should drive at average speed of 80 km/h between Multan and Quetta Normally, I never plan that exactly, I have a destination in mind and ride as much as I want, stop somewhere for sleeping, have "days off" randomly, etc., but that's in India. I'm cautious about Pakistan and Iran - how many km may I expect to cover, what are general road conditions? Is it possible to find a reasonable place to sleep in smaller towns?

For Turkey, fortunatelly, I have few Turkish coleagues and the info I got from them is that roads are more or less like in Europe, rather than like in India, so about Turkey part I'm quiet confident to cover ~500 km per day without rush.

For example, delhi - amritsar, 490 km, 8-9 hours is very reasonable (though, 6:26, before applying 1.3 ratio is very unlikely), i've done part that road few times and it is very good (compared to the rest of roads in India).

I will post my updated itenerary later, as it seems there are no considerable delays on India/Pakistan/Iran/Turkey border crossings.
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  #5  
Old 5 Mar 2009
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As a guide for Pakistan I think 50kmh average would be realistic, the roads are generally better in the Punjab than Baluchistan.

In Iran the roads are in general (apart from the towns) pretty fantastic quality, European standard for the most part and in Iranian Baluchistan once you get past the escorts (on my trip I was only escorted from Zahedan to the border but I've heard of people being escorted as far back as Bam).

The border crossings, Wagha was very easy for me, I don't know what you'll experience as I did it some 4 months ago and I don't know how being a westerner affects these things. My experience was it took about 1.5-2 hours to get through.

Zahedan border was tiresome purely because of the escorts on the Iranian side, the actual border crossing is nice and straightforward.
To get from the border to the other side of Zahedan I would budget 6 hours or so, it's not that far but you have to swap escorts every 2 metres and you always have to wait for the next one.

Iran/Turkey border, very straightforward, a bit full, but took me no more than 2 hours, but I have heard people say it took them an entire day so I suppose it depends how many people are there at the time!
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  #6  
Old 4 Feb 2010
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 5
UK - India

Hi Balis
I am planning the same trip but in the reverse direction.I would love to hear how you got on also any advice would be most appreciated.
Paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by balis View Post
hi all,

i am planning india to europe trip early summer on enfield. i've done some kind of route planning, mostly with the help of Web browser and Live Maps are incompatible (for india, pakistan and iran) and ViaMichelin: Maps, route planner, route finder, UK maps, European maps, hotel booking, travel guides (from turkey onwards). both sites are quiet helpful, especially michelin for europe and turkey, just live.com seems a bit to underestimate the travel time, therefore i added 30% for their estimations to be more realistic.

in general i've done quiet some trips in india, covering up to 500 km per day, though in some cases it happened that we did only ~200 km in 10 hours (yeah, welcome to india). i would prefer to cruise at 70-90 kmh if road and traffic conditions allow.

on trip to europe i would prefer to have full days on road for up to 10 hours (i prefer to ride only in light) and break days without ride, doing sightseeing and all the tourist stuff, most of all, i'd like to see iran.



the following are my concerns

-------------------

border crossings:

wagah border india to pakistan
pakistan to iran (on the way from quetta to zahedan)
iran to turkey (maku to dogubayazit)
turkey to greeceb (istanbul to thesaloniki)
rest in eu and schengen zone should not be complicated

how long does it take and how complicated it is?
-------------------

visas:

for pakistan ad iran i will have to obtain before leaving, in delhi, it should not be complicated.

may i get visa for turkey on border crossing from iran? at least Visa & Health Information (skyteam.com) says so, but it is more about arrival to the airport with all the facilities, etc. or should i obtain visa in embassy in india in advance, heas anyone reliable info about that?
-------------------

carnet:

any info on obtaining carnet for india registeres vehicle in india? i am a resident in india, therefore no problems with ownership of indian vehicles.
-------------------

route:


here it is for your judgement below are the "days of ride" with distances and time estimations. any comments for that, are they realistic? any suggestions for corrections and for places to stay for "days of breaks"?
  1. delhi - amritsar, 490 km, 8-9 hours
  2. amritsar - lahore, 52 km (on a safer side, most of the day dedicated for border crossing)
  3. lahore - multan, 339 km, 5-6 hours
  4. multan - quetta, 530 km, 8-9 hours
  5. quetta - juzzak, 620 km, 10-11 hours
  6. juzzak - zahedan, 104 km (most of the day for border crossing)
  7. zahedan - bam, 324 km, 5-6 hours
  8. bam - yazd, 561 km, 9-10 hours
  9. yazd - qom, 494 km, 8-9 hours
  10. qom - babol sar, 356 km, 5-6 hours
  11. babol sar - chaf, 266 km, 4-5 hours
  12. chaf - ardabil, 314 km, 5-6 hours
  13. ardabil - tabriz, 207 km, 3-4 hours
  14. tabriz - maku, 250 km, 4-5 hours
  15. maku - dogubayazit, 60 km (most of the day for border crossing)
  16. dogubayazit - bayburt, 401 km, 6-7 hours
  17. bayburt - sinop, 614 km, 9-10 hours
  18. sinop - istanbul, 688 km, 10-11 hours
  19. istanbul - thesaloniki, 609 km, 8-9 hours (provided border crossing is not too complicated)
rest in europe - greece, bulgaria, romania, hungary, slovakia, poland, etc. is pretty clear, almost riding around home anyways

so, i have ~20 days of cruising and could add 10-20 "days off" to that, my prioirity is iran, then pakistan, then turkey, waiting for suggestions
-------------------

any other info on the mentioned route:

  • road conditions?
  • security situation?
  • do's and dont's?
  • insurance requirements in the countries to be crossed, where to get it and how much (i suppose, i will not be able to enter eu without insurance with india registered bike)?
-------------------

thanks in advance for info and see you on the road
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  #7  
Old 17 Feb 2010
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help

Hi,

I am also about to start planning the same trip as I am currently working in Nepal until May, I think the trip will begin mid May. My Dad is accompanying me (he is a mechanic who has 47years riding experience and I have 6), however appart from a couple of days in India and Kathmandu I've not ridden extensively outside the UK. Our Enfield trip will start from Kathmandu and end at home in London and ideally go through India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and Europe.

Any advice, things I should know before hand about passage through these countries, VISAs, safety, route planning please I would really welcome it all.

Any advice relevant to a female motorbiking in these countries would also be appreciated.

Kate
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  #8  
Old 19 Feb 2010
MEZ MEZ is offline
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Location: Cornwall/UK
Posts: 106
UK to India

Hi All, this seems an obvious thread to attatch this simple request, there is three of us almost definately going overland to India in 2011, the bikes are sorted no probs there. I just wanted a broard spectrum of "do's" and "donts", potential hickups etc etc for which to concentrate on and priorotise one's early thoughts. All info appreciated, any wise Owl's who have done this trip semi recently, Your input would most helpfull indeed.

Much appreciated Mez
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  #9  
Old 26 Feb 2010
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Location: India
Posts: 22
Ind-UK

Hi All.

I am also planning the same trip in 2011.

Balis I would appreciate if you could share imp information of your trip.

Is there any other border crossing from India to Pakistan other than the Wagah border. I mean towards south of Pakistan as we will be starting from Mumbai.

Which would be the best time of the year to do this ride.

Any other information on the border crossing is welcome.

Thank You
__________________
Honda Accord V6-, Suzuki SX4, Mahindra MM550 Jeep, Royal Enfield 500 classic,Yamaha Fazer600
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  #10  
Old 5 Mar 2010
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerranch View Post
Hi All.

I am also planning the same trip in 2011.

Balis I would appreciate if you could share imp information of your trip.

Is there any other border crossing from India to Pakistan other than the Wagah border. I mean towards south of Pakistan as we will be starting from Mumbai.

Which would be the best time of the year to do this ride.

Any other information on the border crossing is welcome.

Thank You
Only one border crossing between India and Pakistan as far as I am aware of.
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  #11  
Old 12 Mar 2010
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Hi, Some tips for you in Turkey. Drivers can be absolutely mad and aggressive so be very careful! The roads are generally pretty good but in many places they use crushed marble for aggregate so it can be VERY slippery with just a heavy dew. Add spilled diesel and it's diabolical. I once watched a friend put his foot down in a parking lot and it just slipped out and down he went. You can get snow in the north east as late as April so watch the weather in the mountains.
There are some fantastic bike roads through the mountains along the Black Sea coast. The Zigana Pass is one of the highest in Turkey. You'll have to check your map to find the old road but it's worth it.
Ishak Pasa near Dogubayazit, Sumela Monastery and Safronbolu are well worth seeing on your way through.
I lived in Turkey for six years, if you need any more info about what to see just let me know.
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  #12  
Old 15 Mar 2010
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Hi...

If I have the visas for all the countries I will be riding through.. How difficult is it to cross the borders and how much would it cost.

Thanx
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  #13  
Old 16 Mar 2010
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India-Pakistan-Iran-Turkey-Europe route. Suggestions?

Hi Balis et all,
Entry by road between India and Pakistan is limited to Wagah border as far as I know. The roads in Pakistan are decent. 60-70 kph average including fuel and meal stops is easily done. You can safely maintain riding speed between 80-100 kph on most stretches. The traffic generally is not entirely bad. I have done 600km days in 9-10 hrs regularly. If you need any help or assistance while in Lahore you are welcome to ask. entry into Turkey by land route needs special visa at least for holders of Paki passports. I will be riding from Lahore to Europe with two other friends in early/mid April 2010. It is already begining to get warm and expect it to become very hot 45C in shade by end of April. Rains start by mid July and can make it quite wet till end of August. Rest of the year weather is dry and comfortable.
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  #14  
Old 17 Mar 2010
usl usl is offline
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According to my experience in 2003

1. delhi - amritsar, 490 km, 8-9 hours .........too optimistic

2.multan - quetta, 530 km, 8-9 hours ........ same

3.quetta - taftan ..........more realistic

4. Taftan-Bam ........... . very much possible

5. tabriz - dogubayazit.... very much possible

as for roads...

Roads in iran was better then roads in east part of turkey ...

Pakistan ? ... watch out for bumps just before railroad crossings...!!!
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  #15  
Old 27 Mar 2010
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Shipping

Has anybody looked at shipping the bike to India from Egypt of even Europe
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