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  #1  
Old 27 Oct 2013
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do i need a carnet to travel rtw on a motorbike less than £1000?

Hi all,
At the moment i live in Scotland and have a f650gs Dakar.
Myself and my girlfriend are moving to New Zealand next year. she will fly but I want ride.

I am no stranger to big rides, i do 7000-9000 single trips every year, but looking at the costs of carnet is way to high, even on a wrecked old Dakar.

So, i was thinking can i ride there without a carnet on a motorbike that's worth less than £1000? i.e C90, Honda MTX 125, with i have access too already. Am i right in thinking this?

Also how do they work out how much its worth anyway? my Dakar has nearly 90,000 on it, all fairings damaged, its been very VERY well used, so i wouldn't say i could sell her for more than £1000 anyway.

Many thanks
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  #2  
Old 28 Oct 2013
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It doesn't matter if your bike is worth £25. If you go to a country which demands a vehicle carnet, you will need the document.

IF you need a carnet or not ???? Well that depends on where you're going !
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  #3  
Old 31 Oct 2013
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carnet

my understanding is ,carnet has a minimum of £1000.
im just looking at it now, i contacted ed march. it seams a carnet covers or can cover many countierys , but you will have to look and see what the highest % is, ie iran is high at 500 % , so as long as your countries are not higher than you % you have paid, you are ok. i think ! hope this halps people ,as maths di my head in ! lol
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Old 1 Nov 2013
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I didn't know about the £1000 rule.

I'd love to see that conveyed to an Egypian or Iranian Customs guy..

How do you prove that your bike is worth less than a £1000 ???

Especially in a foreign land, in a strange language, to a guy who only knows how to stamp one page of a document whilst there is a 500 strong que behind you bustling to get their papers signed too !!
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  #5  
Old 1 Nov 2013
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Been looking into this myself, countries that require a carnet must be presented with one.


Bürgschaftshöhe für alle Fahrzeuge, die
nicht unter die Punkte 2 oder 3 fallen:
bis zu einem Zeitwert des Fahrzeuges von € 15.000 =
€ 1.500
bis zu einem Zeitwert des Fahrzeuges von
€ 25.000 =
€ 2.500
bis zu einem Zeitwert des Fahrzeuges von € 50.000 =
€ 5.000
bis zu einem Zeitwert des Fahrzeuges von € 75.000 =
€ 7.500

This is for German residents you'll have to hunt for the RAC one, but a Carnet will cost me just under €200....the big sum is a deposit that I hope will be refunded on return of the Carnet. A vehicle worth "up to €15000" will need a deposit of €1500
Exceptions are Egypt India Iran Pakistan South African Nations where it's double,

And you'll need one for NZ
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  #6  
Old 1 Nov 2013
kim kim is offline
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I think there has been some confusion here, you still need a Carnet if your vehicle is under £1000, it's just their minimum value for working out the fee.

From the RAC website

"Vehicle value: £1,000 (this is the minimum vehicle value we can accept) E.g. If the vehicle is valued at £500 your quotation will be based on £1,000."

For example if you have a bike worth £500 and want to drive to New Zealand.

£500 = £1000

£1000 x 500% = £5000, 10% of which is £500 (£250 refundable)
Tax (6%) £30 (£30 refundable)
Deposit to RAC £350 (£350 refundable)
Carney Cost £200

So total up front cost = £1080
Refunded £630
Total cost £450

Last edited by kim; 1 Nov 2013 at 15:56.
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  #7  
Old 1 Nov 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NearlyHomelessNick View Post
Been looking into this myself, countries that require a carnet must be presented with one.


This is for German residents you'll have to hunt for the RAC one, but a Carnet will cost me just under €200....the big sum is a deposit that I hope will be refunded on return of the Carnet. A vehicle worth "up to €15000" will need a deposit of €1500
Exceptions are Egypt India Iran Pakistan South African Nations where it's double,

And you'll need one for NZ
Your lucky, the RAC charge much more.

See this thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...e-uk-rac-68191

I might even look into importing my bike to Germany...
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Old 1 Nov 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kim View Post
I think there has been some confusion here, you still need a Carnet if your vehicle is under £1000, it's just their minimum value for working out the fee.

From the RAC website

"Vehicle value: £1,000 (this is the minimum vehicle value we can accept) E.g. If the vehicle is valued at £500 your quotation will be based on £1,000."

For example if you have a bike worth £500 and want to drive to New Zealand.

£500 = £1000

£1000 x 500% = £5000, 10% of which is £500 (£250 refundable)
Tax (6%) £30 (£30 refundable)
Deposit to RAC £350 (£350 refundable)
Carney Cost £200

So total up front cost = £1080
Refunded £630
Total cost £450


Why is your deposit only £350 for a carnet of of £5000 ?? Is it insured, deposited or bank guaranteed ???

I had to either lay down the whole carnet value in cash deposit, pay a premium for an insurance policy on the amount or have a bank guarantee for the amount.


Cheers, Ted
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  #9  
Old 3 Nov 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* View Post
Why is your deposit only £350 for a carnet of of £5000 ?? Is it insured, deposited or bank guaranteed ???

I had to either lay down the whole carnet value in cash deposit, pay a premium for an insurance policy on the amount or have a bank guarantee for the amount.


Cheers, Ted
The RAC only accept an insurance premium now, deposit or bank guarantee are no longer accepted. See the full thread here http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...e-uk-rac-68191
If your bike is registered here then the RAC are your only easy option. You can try and get it in another country but you can only do that with a letter from the RAC which they don't want to give you, or move to somewhere in Europe for a bit before the trip, register your bike there and then get the carnet there.

The costs above were just an example of a £500 bike, mine costs more unfortunately

In the example above the: -
£500 was insurance premium of which you get half back
£30 was tax
£350 was a deposit they ask for on top of everything else
£200 was the cost for a 20 page carnet
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  #10  
Old 3 Nov 2013
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Thanks Kim..

I did not know about the change.

DAAAAAMMM that sucks. It's all about money isn't it. The RAC are no doubt getting a hefty commission out of that insurance premium.

Glad I crossed Africa when I did. It seems way more expensive now.

I think I paid about £600 in total for a 7 month £8000 Carnet... That was with a bank guarantee
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  #11  
Old 3 Nov 2013
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We're better off then here in Belgium.
The cost of the carnet is 290€, delivered at home within two weeks.
The deposit is x€ but that you get back in the end anyway or bank guarantee.
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  #12  
Old 4 Jan 2014
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ok, is there anymore new on this?
and how the hell can the RAC rull over and charge more than other countries, surely we are all part of the EU and should cost the exact same. And how have they stopped the insurance indemnity way, surely its not up to them???

i mean take a look at these taken off of another members thread;

As for the other expensive countries, namely: Iran,Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Nepal, which are charged at 500% by the RAC, I have done some research into their import duty rates. The results I have come up with are as follows. (The justification and references are at the bottom).
Iran, 100%
Pakistan, 120%
India, 102%
Bangladesh, 87%
Nepal, 94%.
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  #13  
Old 4 Jan 2014
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ok, is there any-more new on this?
and how the hell can the RAC rull over and charge more than other countries, surely we are all part of the EU and should cost the exact same. And how have they stopped the insurance indemnity way, surely its not up to them???

i mean take a look at this taken off of another members thread;



I have been looking (like lots of others I'm sure) at the UK Carnet multiplication factor.

As far as I can work out, in Egypt the maximum import tax is about 240%. I believe a Swedish Carnet reflects this at 235%. In the UK it is 800%.... FFS why ?

As for the other expensive countries, namely: Iran,Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Nepal, which are charged at 500% by the RAC, I have done some research into their import duty rates. The results I have come up with are as follows. (The justification and references are at the bottom).
Iran, 100%
Pakistan, 120%
India, 102%
Bangladesh, 87%
Nepal, 94%.

Now I understand, in the event of a claim, there will be a lot of inflated fees to be paid, but how the extra 400% can be justified is beyond me.

It's nice if you can afford to tie up a large chunk of money at the bank and then still afford to actually travel but in reality, it boils down to insurance, namely Lloyds of London through R.L. Davidson (who also indemnify the ADAC in Germany).
On top of that is a clause that in the event of a claim, they will of course pay out, but Lloyds are fully entitled to claim back their losses from guess who....

This is what they say....
http://media.rac.co.uk/pdf/rac-private-prop.pdf
3. It must be clearly understood that this insurance guarantee, if taken up, does not relieve you of paying duty should the necessity arise. Lloyd’s Underwriters are entitled under the Indemnity to recover from you the amount paid. Our Guarantee merely enables you to take the vehicle out of Great Britain without having to freeze a lump sum in this country.

Makes you wonder what insurance realy is.

So why is it so expensive - the multiplier that is ?
In Germany a carnet for a ϵ15,000 bike (£12,800) for Egypt is ϵ3000
In the UK it is, for a £12,800 bike, 12k x 8 = £102.4k x 10% = £10,240 of which you get back £5,120 (ϵ6,000) if no claim is made.
Basically 4 times as much up front and 2 times as much when finished satisfactorily.

The Germans will take you to court for any losses they incur. The Brits (Davidsons) will take your money (as they are an insurance company ) then let Lloyds make their claim to you to recover their losses.

Is it worth it ????? or are we better of winging it with the exception of countries that will not let you in at all without a carnet, Kenya for example. As can be seen below many will allow entry at a fraction of the cost.
Nepal for example will allow motorcycles in without a carnet for 100 Nepalese Rupees per day, about £0.90 per day for up to 30 days, thereafter £4.50 per day, wheras a carnet will allow up to 6 months in a year.

Extorionate madness. Is someone in the upper echelon of the RAC married to a director of Davidsons or Lloyds.

This BTW is in no way meant criticize Paul Gowan at the RAC in any way as I understand from many posts that he is an extremely helpful guy but he does not set the rates.

Feel free to comment, I realy would love to be completely wrong...

----------------------------------------------------------------
This is the best I can find for the various countries, some from government customs sites, some not. References and relevant data.

Iran – 100%
Ref Automotive industry in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
IMPORTS
Car imports have risen, from $184 million in 2002 to $1.5 billion in 2007.[23] In 2006, the government lowered the automotive import tariff levels to 90 percent for light weight vehicles and since then a huge influx of imported vehicles has been witnessed in the country.[17] The tariff level for import of heavy vehicles is even lower at 20 percent, due to low levels of local production and high demand.
Indicative listing of import tariff rates in 2006[35] Item Tariff rate chemical products 10% ordinary metals 10% measurement instruments 10% medical equipment 10% food industry 15% mining raw production 15% leather industry 15% paper and wood fabrics 15% mechanical machinery 15% agricultural raw production 25% electric machinery 25% automotive vehicles 100%
Pakistan – 120%
Ref: http://www.mofa.gov.pk/Downloads/ImportofVehicles.pdf
This is for normal new imports. It is not possible for foreign nationals to improt used.
Assessed value is typically 140% of actual value as they include all shipping charges etc as part of the cost.
Say vehicle value of 1200 cc bike = £10,000 X 140% = £14000
Add duty £14,000 x 60% = £8,400
Add Sales tax (£14,000 + £8,400) x15% = £3,360
Add Income tax (£14,000 + £8,400 + £3,360) x 0.05% = £13
Add federal duty tax (£14,000 + £8,400) x 1% = £224
Total taxes for a £10,000 bike = £11,997 or 120% of original value
Type of veh, Customs Duty, Sales Tax, Tax on Sales Tax, Federal Duty
From 1001 CC to 1300 CC, 60.00%, 15.00%, 5.00%, 1.00%

India – 102%

Ref: http://www.chennaicustoms.gov.in/imports/car.htm
There is a sliding scale for used vehicles, 1 year 16%, 2 year, 28%

The present rate of duty on import of Car is as below:

Total effective duty works out to 101.91%, which includes the following.

BREAKUP OF CUSTOMS DUTY ON CAR IMPORT(2000-2001)
BASIC CUSTOMS DUTY
35%
SURCHARGE ON CUSTOMS DUTY
10%
ADDITIONAL DUTY
16%
SPECIAL EXCISE DUTY
24%
MOTOR VEHICLE CESS
0.125%
SPECIAL ADDITIONAL DUTY OF CUSTOMS
4%



Bangladesh – 87%


Ref: BANGLADESH Policies ( Exim Policy ) :: Trade in Bangladesh,Bids in Bangladesh,Tenders in Bangladesh,B2B Business in Bangladesh,Bangladesh Trade Gallery
Example:
1300 cc car, C&F value $ 10,000
Insurance (1% or actual) 100
Landing Charge (1%)1 100
Assessable value 10,200

a. customs duty @ 45% $ 4,590
b. supplementary duty @ 10% $ 1,020
c. duty paid value $ 15,810
-VAT at 15% of duty paid value 2,371.50
--advance income tax 2.5% of assessable value $ 255
--license fee 2.5% on assessable value $ 255
--total duties and taxes $ 8,491.50

Our $ 10,000 vehicle's landed cost is therefore $ 18,691.50.


Nepal – 94%


Ref: http://trade.gov/wcm/groups/internet...debarriers.pdf

NEPAL
 An import license is required.
 The import duty is levied at around 94 percent on public carriers and around 117 percent on mini-buses (customs duty of 25 percent on public carriers and 40 percent on mini-buses, 32 percent excise duty on the gross of Invoice Value plus Customs Duty, 1.5 percent local development tax on invoice value, 5 percent special tax on invoice value, and 13 percent value added tax (VAT) on the gross of invoice value plus additional duties and taxes).
 The import duty on other vehicles is around 176 percent (80 percent customs duty, and additional duty and taxes as applicable on mini-buses and public carriers).

Ref: Normal Tariff

12. Special provisions relating to import of Vehicles:
…………
(2) Vehicles of personal use brought in by tourists under a carnet shall be allowed to stay in Nepal continuously or now and then for a period of 6 months during the span of 12 months (one Year) from the date of the first entry into Nepal without payment of import duty. Vehicles thus imported, if not taken back within six months, shall be ipso facto confiscated.
…………..
(3) The temporary importation of vehicles such as motorcars, station wagons, land rovers, jeeps, trucks, tractors, lorries, vans and motorcycles including their trailers except those brought under a carnet shall be charged customs duty as follows:
…………..
(b) Import duty shall be levied on vehicles, having no carnet, imported temporarily on the following rates:
…………
Motorcycles and Scooter Rs. 100 per diem, (About £0.90/ day– Dec 2010)
…………
Vehicles thus imported with the payment of temporary import duty shall not be permitted to stay in Nepal for more than 30 days in a year.
…………
(d) Vehicles and means of transport thus imported temporarily must be taken back. Vehicles specified in clause (a), (b) and (c) above may be seized if found to have overstayed from the period declared in the customs declaration form (Pragyapanpatra),
…………..
Nevertheless, vehicles may be allowed to be taken back after paying duty for overstayed period at the rate of Rs. 500/- per diem in the case of motorcycle
………………..
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  #14  
Old 5 Jan 2014
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It's because we are British.

It means it's a green light to be anally ram rodded in every direction.

Rip off Britain is alive and well EVERYWHERE...
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  #15  
Old 18 Jan 2014
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buying a carnet in the EU ?

OK, cat among the pigeons time?

I believe that it is now illegal to prevent a EU citizen buying a service or goods in another EU country if they want to now. So you should be able to force the matter now!

The pub landlord who bought a contract for premier league footbal in grease at a fraction of the cost in the UK for example.

so, I think we are within our rights to demand the option from some one else as the RAC could be accused of abusing its monopoly position!

Anyone got any ideas?
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