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  #31  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Sure you can go longer. But why would you want to miss out of all that great local food to dave a few dollars. To me food is a very large part of the travelling experience. You'll forget about those dollar a lot sooner than the experience.

$40 bucks in Europe is still pushing it for decent meals. Don't see the point of cooking spam and tomato pasta's somewhere in a forest or field camping rough. I'd rather stop in a town at dusk, find somewhere to eat, find a camp spot and crash out for the next day's riding. Each their own though.

But surely we're not turning pennies here in a food budget are we?

I was thinking about it a bit as well. It's all very regional. In South America you'll manage to keep the food cost down once you leave Chile and Argentina, but in those countries it's western prices. Same for accomodation. And what about the hotel costs in former Soviet countries? They ain't cheap either.
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  #32  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Cost me a hundred a day in southern Chile and Argentina. Cost me a hundred a day throughout Europe, including ex-soviet countries. *Shrug*

I don't know why your costs are so much higher than mine, aside from what I posted previously. If you're going to spend over $11k for shipping and flights on a two or three month trip, I guess that's your choice. Same with meals, hotels or whatever else. But it doesn't necessarily follow that this is what it costs for anyone else. It probably means something that no one is scoffing or expressing astonishment at the prices I'm quoting...although I suppose sooner or later someone will.

Mark
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  #33  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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That's hardly evidence, that no one is scoffing about your costs. In perticular since I'm the only one so far that's quoted hard costs per cost categories and you can't really argue about the maths.

So if we want to compare apples with apples yourself or someone has to start costing in the same format as I am because saying you spend AVERAGE $100 doesn't mean much to me at all because like I said, average daily costs are misleading. This is not how budgets are developed proffesionally for a reason. Summed costs become pretty large which starts looking rediculous but that's the reality. I started doing this for a lot of things, and it surprised me how things add up. Do this for your normal living/existing costs and it becomes scary.

You can easily spend a third of $100/day on fuel in some places. And you haven't even moved yet. Say from your viewpoint $20/food and drink? I buy bottled water, I'm guessing most people do. Coke can here and there. Coffee, 3 square meals. This leaves $50 to pay for lodging, excursions, visa's, insurances, flights, shipping, spare parts, tyres, carnet, immunisations, personal supplies such as toilet paper, soap, shampoo, sourvenirs, sun screens, to local costs, public transport, museum entry, the list goes on. This isn't adding up to me.

As I said, lets turn this thread from 'I don't like the total amount this costs' to a proper costing exercise which you can't do based on daily average cost. So far all I've heard is that I'm spending a lot of money on a relatively small trip. I can't change anything about this, because a lot of those costs aren't relative to time.
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  #34  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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tmotten, average daily costs over the course of a long journey is how I cost out my trips. It works for me. Apparently it doesn't work for you. That's ok. But there's a reason why people do it that way (as do guidebooks). We're not all clueless dolts.

As I said earlier, I'm usually the one who's lecturing everyone about the need to include all costs--including those incurred before and after their trip--in their budgets. For example, I don't see you including the cost (or depreciation) of your bike. Everyone draws the line in a different place, including (or not) certain trip-related expenses but not others. It's not like your system is so pure.

What's more, please note that I've already done what you find so "scary." I spent under $35,000 for a yearlong trip, all included. I stayed wherever I pleased, and I ate whatever I wanted. I went to parks and museums. I took some tours. Notably, I went to Antarctica, which is not cheap. It's all included in my accounting.

Want details? Sorry: you can busy yourself arguing with the ones I provided above. It's not rocket science, and I don't need to speculate about how much I did or didn't spend on gasoline or hotels: I just need to know how much money I spent in a full year of traveling, plus how much I spent preparing and how much decompressing from my trip. I'm calling it a hundred bucks a day because that's what happens when you divide my actual costs by 365 days per year. Neat, huh?

There's a lot that's valid in what you're posting, but there are also reasons why you're way out of line with the costs others are reporting. It's not a matter of differences between accounting methods: it's just the simple facts. For example, you spend far, far more on shipping and flights than I ever have, and also more on lodging, meals, visas and tires. Then you take shorter trips. No mystery that your trips cost way more than mine. If I ever take a short trip which includes eleven thousand dollars in shipping and flights, my daily expenses will skyrocket. I get that, but I don't know what relevance it really has to the subject at hand, which was "Cost of RTW."

I suppose it's time I stopped repeating myself, at least for a little while. Safe journeys!

Mark
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  #35  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Mark, sit back a second please and realise that you've just both argued for and against the reason I now budget the way I do. And reading you last post it seems you actually do the same but only quote the daily cost.

Exactly right. My daily costs are massively higher because of the short duration. Which is exactly the reason it's pointless to inform others about the cost of RTW by quoting daily costs. Guidebooks only do it for the time you're already in the place you want to travel. Not for getting there any back and sideline costs which can be the largest. In my case due to my location things like flight costs are what they are. Guess there is a price for living in paradise.

This post and sadly others always end in a right or wrong discussion which then just stops altogether. I never said that the money I budgetted for is the money I end up spending. Because I haven't been in those places before it's impossible to know exactly the costs. This is why I break it down to do sanity checks. Which is why these posts should stop being about 'my way is better' and just report the costs as they are. Surely it's far more usefull to know what range a standard meal in a standard restaurant or road side diner comes to than providing an average daily costs. I didn't know tyres would be so much inflated in Russia for example. Didn't really allow for the cost of fuel in a place like Turkey which was more than anywhere in the EU. Apparently they use this inflation to counteract income tax evation. This is what I was told anyway. Information about typical costs of accomodation in southern South America was vastly outdated on this forum.

I certainly know that I'm not the only one doing these trips. Not many people do though, and this is usually the biggest question with the worst answer available if there even is one. So I'm all for providing some help.

Good effort for keeping the cost as low as you did. Dunno if I'd even manage to do this. Obviously planning the route to keep costs down is a luxury I don't always have. Or ever being in Australia. I know I try to rough camp 7 days/ week where possible. Prefer my own 'house' over a different bed every night. But depends on regions in the world. In former Soviet countries it's easy. In Argentina is was harder. Europe even harder. This is why I make it my contingency fund. Something I learnt about the hard way.

You seem to actually keep records like the ones I'm re-developing/re-visiting. So why not just share it? I thought this forum was to inform people. I know I'm interested to hear about it.

Is the $400 flights across the Darien? I'm guessing shipping is from Valparaiso back to the States? I met a Kiwi who told me a rediculously good price he paid to get it to there. You raised a good point about depreciation. I do calculate this but not as part of my travel budget. I actually under budget for it though. But with a mortgage you can afford to do this to some extent. It's just moving the debt across.
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  #36  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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I share per-day costs because that's what people ask for and because that's what people find helpful; it has more predictive value and makes a better basis for comparison than telling them the total cost of my journey. Either way, my primary and most emphatic answer is "it depends."

Sometimes if you're trying to be helpful, you've got to speak the shared language. Per-day is the consensed language of overland travelers of all stripes. That's why people get what I'm saying here, and don't get what you're saying. Am I over-stating this? Probably. Full of it? Maybe. Worth the price of admission? You decide.

Mark

PS: I rode both directions. Went places more expensive than most people do (e.g., throughout Brazil, not to mention French Guiana). Shipped my bike once by air ($600) and once by Stahratte ($400) around the Gap. Added in some fudge factor for taxi fares, ferries and other shipping-associated stuff....plus one truck ride in the Amazon to get $1200. My flight was actually less than $400, but I also paid $50 to fly over Nazca. Subtract $4000 to Antarctica and my year cost me just under $30,000, including 1/3 of my bike's useful life (35,000 out of a total of 95,000 miles on my KLR). I thought the whole thing was pretty luxurious. In other words, "It depends."
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  #37  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Now we're getting somewhere. This would be much easier over a , but sadly I'm sitting at my desk trying to work all this stuff out.

Just a quick correction. The OP never asked for daily prices but total price. Admitions were made regarding under budgeting so to me this proves this method not to work and I can't say I agree with your supposit 'industry standard'. I certainly don't find it usefull because it doesn't tell me anything. Some posts in this thread adressed this by providing daily costs + additional costs. In the end, if you save up for something you require a target. But it doesn't matter anyway, because I think we're getting into the nitty gritty now which I always took this thread to be about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS_Girl View Post
I would love to hear what your entire trip cost you, though everyone's trip and expenses are different hopefully if I get enough replies I can get an idea....

.....I prefer camping and cooking, but not so strict that I will pass up every hotel/meal/tourist thing, want to experience it all! Esp, the food!!

Please let me know anything you know on what your costs were, or any advice is appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximondo View Post
I am hoping once i can start wild camping the cost of everything will come down!! Damn inflation! But saying all of this, I wasnt serious at working out what my budget would be, I just always thought I could fit everything into $1000 AUS per month - im going over this if you include shipping, parts etc up until today!

This would be a great poll, based on a single person.
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  #38  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Hey Taco, this sure is getting interesting. By the second page I was about to slit my wrists as it looked like we would never be able to afford it

Anyway, seems to me that Turbocharger (edited for brevity sake)

Quote:
Over 11 months travelling from Sydney, Australia to Oslo, Norway, 2up on 1 bike back in 2009
What I will say is the the 44,000kms we travelled we spent Approx AUD$2,666.88 only on fuel
On average all expenses included we spent for both of us AUD$100 per day.
When I say all it includes EVERYTHING. Parts, accommodation, , food, tourism etc.:

has direct bearing on your projections as he states $100 per day over 11 months 2 people 1 bike on a similar route to yours. He does say "average" but reading between the lines that might be a mis direct (hey Turbo care to elaborate?).

Of course your additional bike is going to change the game a bit, and your shorter time frame will increase the impact of shipping costs. WHich if you ask me you have about right (I ship stuff to and from Europe to Oz all the time)

What say you Taco?
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  #39  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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..worth every penny

how much? everything I have ever worked for, bought and owned.
is it worth that...oh yes!

Im with you GS-girl....I adore camping and doing my own cooking is not just a way to save $..its because I also adore cooking! and like you however, I also like the odd meal out and more often than not this is the 'real' local and very basic foods.

everyone travels differently and what one person 'expects' or wants to experience during thier trip is often very different to another persons expectations of quality of living whilst on the road. so to say..I think I live a basic but good quality life on the road is one thing....however, my life may be considered too frugal and basic by others...so to estimate ones costs on the road is a really hard thing when advising others as to what they may or may not require.

so the best thing to do is to get some of the 'estimates' provided here then do some of your own research of the absolute basics and known requirments ie...look at the basic cost of living in each country. using websites like this one : Cost of Living in India. Prices in India.
these can easily be researched on the web. then look at the cost of gas in the countries..once again current information on gas prices can be found online. ie CNN/Money: Global gas prices
the shipping is a little more difficult as costs do vary amazingly from sea - air and what the oil companies are doing at that time. and to get a definite 'quote' from a company unless you are there face-to-face can be nigh on impossible.

however, the HUBB has the shipping information pages too...so if you get basic costs, then take into account the year the report was made you can once again provide yourself a basic estimate.

ultimately..if you have lots of money avaiable you WILL spend it. if you dont then you cant. and you will deal with those restrictions as and when they occur. if and when emergencies occur and you dont have the cash to deal with them, you'll find it, often compromising in another area. but such is life, whether you are at home or on the road!

GS-girl - young enough to camp...? camping is not an age thing its a state of mind 'thing'.

:-)

enjoy the research!
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  #40  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.C View Post
Hey Taco, this sure is getting interesting. By the second page I was about to slit my wrists as it looked like we would never be able to afford it

Anyway, seems to me that Turbocharger (edited for brevity sake)




has direct bearing on your projections as he states $100 per day over 11 months 2 people 1 bike on a similar route to yours. He does say "average" but reading between the lines that might be a mis direct (hey Turbo care to elaborate?).

Of course your additional bike is going to change the game a bit, and your shorter time frame will increase the impact of shipping costs. WHich if you ask me you have about right (I ship stuff to and from Europe to Oz all the time)

What say you Taco?
I say I'm fried on a 5.37 on a Tuesday arvo. But to me your post sums up the apparent row Mark and I have had. Not enough information.

Obviously the longer you go the lower the average becomes which is exactly why I broke it up for others to interpret. One-off costs that are relative for just about all travellers, regardless of duration but relative to the route shouldn't be included because it skews the result.

I'm not arrogant to say people's experience are removed from the truth. For the sake of my own planning I'm just seeking information the same way the OP is. I just know what's involved but am seeking to put realistic costs behind those items. This obviously also differs depending on the region. In South America I missed out (thanks to the GFC) on the 'cheap' areas. Those Peruvian 'menu del dia's' were a nice introduction in our routine.

Are you talking about my trip that signature directs to? Sadly we were that clueless that we didn't keep any records. I'd love to know what we spent and what on. I hadn't discovered Horizons yet either.

I'd like to hear more about the shipping costs you have to work with. Any rules of thumb? We're a bit limited in our option. For BA I could only chose between Qantas and Malaysian I think. Qantas fobbed me off, so I had to go indirect. The return showed to me the inefficiencies of shipping though. What was meant to go via Tokyo went via Hamburg!!!!! Didn't save any money compared to the flight in either.
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  #41  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgiggle View Post
removed my post! Not in time by the looks of it, see below
Where??
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  #42  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Simple budget first

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmotten View Post
Just a quick correction. The OP never asked for daily prices but total price.
Dude, what's your beef, I don't see your correction. Did I miss something

Daily price x Number of days away = Total $$$ ... OP question answered.


We all know this estimate is just a starting point. But for RTW you have to start somewhere, n'est-ce pas?!


You know, all the arguing just dilutes the important stuff and takes longer for anyone else reading this thread to have an indication of the costs of RTW.
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  #43  
Old 29 Mar 2011
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Sweet, with ground breaking and important information like that she must be ready to go. Pick a number x days you'll be on the road. To me it doesn't add anything. You can find that in guidebooks. Why not really help her out by giving her an idea on some of the big ticket items she'll face which surely people develop this daily figure on? At least she'll have a better idea how to fill in her estimates. I'm guessing that that's why chris scott made his book.

I thought I was starting something when I put those costs out. But it seems all I started was people telling me it was a lot. Sure, if I didn't know this already it do now. Let's move on to how to reduce that.

Last edited by tmotten; 30 Mar 2011 at 01:02.
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  #44  
Old 30 Mar 2011
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Quote:
so the best thing to do is to get some of the 'estimates' provided here then do some of your own research of the absolute basics and known requirments ie...look at the basic cost of living in each country. using websites like this one : Cost of Living in India. Prices in India.
these can easily be researched on the web. then look at the cost of gas in the countries..once again current information on gas prices can be found online. ie CNN/Money: Global gas prices
Thanks for this information Lisa - I just checked the Indian prices out and they are spot on (since im in India). I am about to head into Pakistan, so i was surprised to find its only marginally cheaper than India. HOWEVER fuel Is a lot cheaper and at the moment that is my biggest daily cost.

After Pakistan I am heading in to Iran, where they have no international ATM. This is where working out what you are going to spend even more critical.

The problem with budgeting is, every year the cost of things go up and IF your travelling for several years like me, what you budgeted for in the lead up to your departure might not be the case when you finally make it to your destination... Just something to remember or to Budget in.

BUT - po\eople, everyone can stop and work along the way.... AND like someone has already said, if you have the money you spend it, if you dont you dont. I dont, so Im really careful in what I do and see, I get recommendations for other travelers to see if its worth going to see something.

-JUST DONT LET THIS BE THE REASON FOR NOT LEAVING HOME!-

please note - In 2008 I left home with $10,000 AUD in my pocket. I spent $12,000 AUD on my bike and my set up from camping equipment to pannier bags and first shipping. I flew the bike to Thailand and then flew it from Cambodia to Korea. Shipped it from Korea to Russia. I spent ten months on the road. Got to Moscow and ran out of money. I sold my bike in Moscow to purchase my flight home.
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  #45  
Old 30 Mar 2011
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Wow that's a good effort. Dying to find out more on that. How much do you reckon the shipping and personal flights took out of your 10k budget? I'm thinking half?
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