Chris,you as a Moderator please explain how this thread belongs in RIDE REPORTS.This topic is for the bar and how by pointing this out am I to be told off for trolling.
Al

Good to see you want everything in its correct place. How right you are. I think that if you search around you may find other examples of wrongly placed posts. Let us know how many you found. Get back to us.

That sarky kind of comment might get you into trouble these days!!!
Al thebarkingspider

Albert. Just how can anyone take you seriously? As trolls go i'll give you 1/10.

I'll be nice to you and begin with a Glasgow kiss.

Albert
You work it out.

I'll give you a hand: a. The man from TWO started it here. b. He's asking for ride reports for his mag, c. Just because people are politely and forcefully (but with the stress on politely/in a civil manner) putting their points of view forward, doesn't automatically "condemn" it to the Bar. The bar is for "no useful content". People's views on mags/getting paid for stories are, in most people's opinion, useful, even if you disagree with them/find the topic boring or whatever. d. If you don't like what's written in this thread, don't read it. You're the one clicking the mouse/controlling what appears on your screen.

Yours
Chris (who also wears a flat cap)

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Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Who would have thought that a simple, innocuous (to me at least) offer from a magazine would prompt so much ire. Among some anyway, there's also a lot of common sense on this thread. Okay, it could be argued that common sense is in the eye of the beholder.

We live in a market economy. And thank god we do - have you seen the alternatives? If you like the idea of receiving GBP150 and seeing yourself published in a paper magazine, go for it. If you don't, don't. But please spare us the whinging.

Those asking "Why should I pay GBP3.99/whatever for a magazine that pays its writers peanuts?" are missing the point. No, you really are. No-one buys magazines or anything else in this life based on how much it cost the providers to provide them. We buy on the basis of whether we as individuals feel the product is worth our money. It really is that simple.

When I look at photos in magazines or elsewhere I care nothing for how much the photographer was paid - if paid at all. I care only for how good the photos are. It's the same with written material. Should I buy books based primarily on the size of the author's advance?

As for "If we don't pay writers generously good writing will disappear": Rubbish. User-generated content available for free on the internet is one of the most incredible children of the information revolution. I have often found far more useful, interesting and reliable information about motorcycling on forums than I can from a book. And I love books. And own thousands.

"Professional" writers who moan about poor quality "Amateur" writing are not actually angry about the quality of the amateur writing. They are angry that they may be losing their livelihood. Fair enough. But at least be honest about it. And remember, the editor who pays his contributors GBP5,000 a paragraph will soon be meeting them in the dole queue, his magazine having gone rapidly bust.

Okay, there's an awful lot of cack around on the net as well as the good stuff. Look at any youtube argument. "You're a twat" "No you're a twat". Perhaps the best thing about 21st century magazines is that, as well as allowing us the old-fashioned pleasure of reading from paper, they have been edited to filter out the drivel and show only the best. Some editors are better than others at this of course. I will chime in agreement with those who have expressed their irritation at reading yet another "Look at us drinking free in the sponsor's tent" article. Like most people I vote with my feet. I have reduced my magazine spend accordingly.

I'll end this post by adding a potential twist to the thread:

If you're reading this Cpl(?) Hogan, have a look at 15 countries in 40 days: Tanks, minefields, crashes and Kalashnikovs.
It's a longer ride report than the average, and better written or so I am told (and conceitedly believe). My price is therefore £250. But if you don't wish to proceed at that price, you'll get no whinging from me.

Andrew

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Seek Truth

15 countries in 40 days. Tanks, crashes, minefields and Kalashnikovs

Nice blog Andrew, good pics. The style of writing, since you mention it, is perfectly appropriate for a blog, though a tad more work would be needed for print publication IMO. I enjoyed it, and will return to it. I suppose though, that those kids begging in your pics of Bulgaria are glad they live in a market economy, with sound banks, financial honesty, and fair distribution of wealth?

You refer to the "ire" this thread has produced; I see it more as the expression of long term frustration with publications which don't cut the mustard for many readers - so they vote with their keyboards. I was glad to see that my dissatisfaction with most mags is shared by others. That's not whinging, that's expressing a point of view.

Like you, I have made the mistake of riding through too many countries in too few days. Now I try to remember Ted Simon's "The Interruptions ARE the Journey".

IMHO the diary/blog-style seldom work in a printed article, blogs are great for following a trip from day to day basis but not as a summary of a trip (which is what an article is).
It’s much easier to write a blog then to write articles.
A blog fits for sharing stuff between friends and people with close interests, for a printed magazine the value is limited.

Usually there is no flow in a blog, it repeats itself “Day X we did this, Day Y we rode to Y where we did X”, who cares about the day? The uses of names should be limited etc. There is a lot of “rules” how to make an article and it doesn’t fit with how most people blog.

I profoundly disagree with the above statement. Who says they "show only the best"? I don't say that. I don't share the magazine's values; what's the "best"? I don't want some editor who may be a pillock or a rightwing nutter, "filtering" what I read.

As for "If we don't pay writers generously good writing will disappear": Rubbish.

This is true.

IMHO the diary/blog-style seldom work in a printed article

I agree. It's entirely natural for a blog but as a way of telling a story for a publication, it is dare I say, lazy or unimaginative.

I have not read A's blog and no offence, but I can also advise that when it comes to proposing an article for publication, pointing someone at x-thousand online words and saying take your pick or get back to me is unlikely to get a response. Editor-type people just haven't got time which is why dealing with unknowns are such a gamble. Even for your paltry 150£ you must do the work. If they ask for 2000 words (the usual parametre) give them 1950.

Maybe it's just me, but I also find it's best not to bang out a yarn as soon as you get back. You head is too full of impressions. I find if at least a year passes the result is often much better.

Ch

Good to see pro-active moderation of the usual suspects. A shame it's even necessary.

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Adventure Motorcycling Handbook 8 • Morocco Overland 3 • Overlanders Handbook 2 • Twit

This is interesting. I recently used my blog as a reference text for a scene in a work of fiction wot I rote. The resulting text is far more evocative of the situation and the environment. However, writing down those initial impressions was invaluable. When trying to draw from memories I haven't written down at the time I find the process FAR harder and the resulting descriptions much more vague and woolly (albiet with more beautiful ladies and spectacular explosions).

I agree that a blog does not directly translate to the magazine article format. However, good writing is good writing and if you can write a genuinely interesting, exciting and evocative blog my bet is that you could write a good article.

Matt

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http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Nice point. Has anyone read Bill Bryson? There's a man who has mundane "adventures" and writes about them extremely well. He can make a trip to the grocery store a compelling read.

You need a mixture of two things in order to make a good book or article:

1. A good story and 2. the ability to write it.

The grander the adventure, the more tolerable it will be to read poor writing... to a point. It works the other way, too. If you write well, then a trip to the pub will enthrall an audience.

Too true. In fact, this echos what I posted way back in the early pages of this thread. It's my policy to never actually work out the hourly rate I make as a writer, otherwise I'd become very depressed.

I sell my book at motorcycles shows and the odd book store or whatnot. People often say to me that they are "jealous," and that I have the "dream job." Apparently, they are under the impression that I make money. Or that I travel for free, at least. This is not the case.

When they ask me how I can afford to do what I do I reply, "I took a vow of poverty. I don't own a truck. I don't own a house." There's a good reason for the existence of the phrase "starving artist."

So why do we do it? I travel because I'm restless. Why do we write? I haven't figured that out yet, but I'm writing another book and I don't plan to give that question any further thought until I'm done!

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Jeremy Kroeker
www.MotorcycleTherapy.com

Nice one, Jeremy.

Jeremy, keep on writing because it's the right thing to do, and it's what you do - this is reason enough, IMO.

My best wishes for your next book and travels.

Suprise suprise!! NO response from Mr Hogan.?