Andy, a lot of what you say I concur with, because I said in my original post that magazines make little or no investment in editorial work and your musings confirm that.

The only way that a small number of magazines and newspapers will survive is by providing excellence and in so doing, differentiate themselves from the vast majority of t'internet.

I can absolutely guarantee that there is a world of difference between somebody who does a trip with the intention of writing about it and photographing it, and somebody who , as an afterthought, digs out some snaps from a trip, tries to remember who/what/where/when and flogs it to a magazine for 150 quid. It takes a lot of effort to get it to look brilliant, often to the detriment of enjoying the moment.

It's piss poor business planning (and insulting to the punters) for TWO to think that this approach is good for the longitivity of their industry.

Two things will always survive in business - excellence for which customers are prepared like Rolls Royce (ie National Geographic Magazine in publishing) and cheap and cheerful stuff that you aren't prepared to pay much for, like McDonalds (and the internet in publishing)

Why pay a premium for a magazine that is sourcing editorial work so cheaply

We went through all this about a year ago on HU (in The Bar was it?) with what also transpired to be the same 'P&P' appeal from TWO for travel yarns.

That time the guy initially didn't say who he or the mag were and payment was zero. Rightly he got flamed to a crisp and eventually was shamed into putting his cards on the table and even an offer of a helmet for yarns. It looked to me like a stirring example of HU people power!

I can't stomach bike mags any more (I tried TWO for a bit) but at least this time they are up front and offering money. I wonder if people aren't taking themselves a bit too seriously. We can all write entire books on the internet but the printed word still has kudos and the discipline of writing well even for a crap mag can be satisfying.

I offer a lot less for yarns in my AMHs but put in the work tracking down good stories online and shuffling them into shape if need be. No one complains and many are even chuffed to be asked. Online appeals rarely work, IME. I suspect getting offered a grand as a first time/unknown/unproven author is pretty rare. You need some talent, great pictures or a sh t-hot tale. I don't think I've ever managed the hat trick!

Due to the internet and websites like this, magazines and certainly mainstream travel publishing are desperate straits and the cost-cutting is ever-more blatant. I get the impression bike mag staffers are squeezed dry to cover all the work. Not all of it very well. I remember JH's yarn on 'Libya': he flew into Tripoli, scored some clapped out Jap cruiser for 2 days and made some Ghadaffi jokes. Is it any wonder mag sales are declining?

AFAICT 3-4 page, no-name travel yarns of the sort I read in the 80s are rare these days. Too expensive and too unpredictable in content unless you're a regular and reliable freelancer in favour with the current editor. But how do you start?

So IMO, don't scoff too much at 150 quid for a few hours work and 15 mins of fame. Just make every word count.

Chris S

It takes a lot of effort to get it to look brilliant, often to the detriment of enjoying the moment.

How true this is!

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Adventure Motorcycling Handbook 8 • Morocco Overland 3 • Overlanders Handbook 2 • Twit

Indeed Sir, and should be properly recompensed


I can still picture in my mind a "top to bottom" of Africa trip report,featured in Bike over 5 or 6 pages from the mid 80s' written I think by a German chap. I'm sure others remember it.

It got me started on a life of travel without a proper job

Was that directed at myself?.

When writing my epic tales on BCF it takes me days if not weeks to recant my tales. I often sift through my memory and type out a wodge of text , I then go back and clean it up and go do something for a few days and come back to clean it up again.


Only then do I post it for all and sunder of BCF to see I can write very very well, but the issue is that when I do it comes across in a very snooty manner and people don't like it an article I wrote once for money came across as a university dissertation which was perhaps influenced by the fact that I had just finished my university dissertation .

The BCF say my writing style is very informal and almost colloqual in its tone as if I was sat in the corner of a pub recanting my trip to them, people there like this style and as said I do not make a career out of it either.

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http://www.itchystravels.co.uk/Bigone2009.html

Does anybody remember the travel story called poor circulation by Alan Kelly?.

In that there is this small magazine which is printed in the UK which is free (and consequently chock full of adverts and can only be collected at very limited outlets) every 2 weeks. And featured his trip bit by bit, it spanned 9 months worth.

I believe he donated all proceeds to a hospice.

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http://www.itchystravels.co.uk/Bigone2009.html

Was that directed at myself?.

It was a bit harsh, a.

Don't know about grammar but you do follow it with a 70-word sentence with only one comma which makes it hard to comprehend in one pass. A line like that requires breathing apparatus!

Ch

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Adventure Motorcycling Handbook 8 • Morocco Overland 3 • Overlanders Handbook 2 • Twit

I offer a lot less for yarns in my AMHs but put in the work tracking down good stories online and shuffling them into shape if need be. No one complains and many are even chuffed to be asked. Online appeals rarely work, IME. I suspect getting offered a grand as a first time/unknown/unproven author is pretty rare. You need some talent, great pictures or a sh t-hot tale. I don't think I've ever managed the hat trick!

Bl**dy too right Chris. I contributed to the 3rd edition of AMH (Bombay Express) You have no idea how thrilled I was when you asked if I would like to contribute to your book. I'm no writer, did not have a university education, i'm just an ordinary working class bloke. To see my story published was one of the proudest moments ever and I thank you for that.

Meant to add, if you are doing another adition of AMH, let us know and i'll send you my UK to Timbuktu story.

And print journalist wonder why there profession is dying. Ask a stock photographer why stock photos have gone to hell.
Pay crap get a hack and hope? Wont work, never has never will.

How bout you go on a ride with some of the people from HU go do the Americas then do the story on the road. Its cheap you will get the photos and the story.

A few hours work? Yesterday I spent 45 minutes writing one SINGLE sentence... and then I deleted it!!! Sigh. True story.

Fortunately, most days are better than that, but still, if I'd divide my writing income by hours spent writing, I'd be very depressed. That said, Chris is right, getting published is not just about the money (at first... Once you've been published a few times, then it's about the money ).

TWO is offering a neat opportunity here; but remember, they will only pay IF your piece is picked up. Don't assume that when you submit a story they will mail you a check. You'll have to compete with dozens, hundreds, perhaps thousands of entries, which is where the prestige of it all comes in. It's easy to write a journal about your trip, but it's difficult to write it in such a way that people will pay to read it.

That's where Linzi has a good point. Quality matters. If you're a professional writer, you had better be good. If you are, then 150 quid is an insult. (Although, if you're a pro, you've also got a bunch of irons in the fire. An article that takes you days to write gets quickly reworked just enough to sell to other publications .)

Speaking of quality, many of you are complaining that the mags are declining in this area due to pleas to us punters here on the NET. OK, but remember, TWO is not asking us at the HUBB to produce their entire rag. They are opening up one little SECTION of their publication for new talent. They're cheaping out on the fee, but maybe they discover someone that they can use in the future to both parties mutual satisfaction.

At any rate, I have to go. I need to bang my head against the computer for a while. My goal is to write three good sentences in the next hour.

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Jeremy Kroeker
www.MotorcycleTherapy.com

Assuming one is not a professional writer, I think it's a good opportunity... for the aspiring writer (often more well known publications require past publishing experience) or the "it'd be cool to have my story published" folks. Especially considering most of us may be used to having to pay others to listen to our tales.

All of you who are insulted by TWO's offer should read the sentence above. Like it or not, the fact is that there are plenty of people who would submit stories for free, so whining about not getting 1000 GBP for your brilliant piece of professional writing is pretty much pointless. As for quality, do you really think people buy TWO magazine for the brilliant adventure travel writing? (I've never seen the magazine, but I seriously doubt it...). It is not National Geographic for chrissake.

The bottom line is if TWO can get adequate quality for their needs for 150 GBP (or less), why should they pay you more??

I understand what those who already get paid for writing mean, after all who wants to see the market value of their creative outpourings drop quicker than a high street bank's share prices, but you're in the privileged position of already having been published, and of already having a nice contacts book.

For those of us who have never been published, the thought of getting a little monetary recompense for something we might otherwise have offered for free is enticing, and should we be published we can then add our meagre outpourings to our fledgling portfolio, and perhaps in future we'll get picked up by someone bigger, or with a bigger budget.

Mind you, I'm not convinced at the 100's and 1000's we have to compete with. If this is the second appeal in a year it doesn't suggest hundreds of articles are spilling into TWO's inbox.

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Perhaps you're right. I don't know how many submissions they get, but larger mags are inundated with queries. Usually, even submitting a proposal is hard. There's a protocol to it - an unwritten protocol - involving catch phrases embedded within your e-mail to the editor and scripted responses to his reply, etc. These guys at TWO seem to have dispensed with that to a degree.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is really offended at TWO's proposal. Career writers won't submit their stuff in response to the post - or if they do they will know how to properly negotiate a better rate. Those who don't write to eat, they may submit... and they may be surprised, too, at how difficult it is to get paid even with an invitation! Who knows?

I have a friend whose hobby it is to collect rejection letters. Interesting approach to the profession... but he's trying! (I'm proud to say that I've collected rejection letters from some very important people myself!)

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Jeremy Kroeker
www.MotorcycleTherapy.com

, you and every other bike mag journo as manufacturers don't do "pre-biking season" press launches for the latest 600cc sportsbike in the UK. An all expenses paid weekend riding the latest ZXCBXR600 in South Africa is about as convincing as another MCN exclusive.

Read it as: Bike based* Journey** Somewhere *** Cool****

* The bike manufacturer had a bar at the press launch

** We had to walk from the taxi to get there

*** We can't remember where it was exactly

**** There was ice in the drinks

Sorry, shouldn't take the whatsit

What I want to know is, if the mags find every bike so wonderful how come I can find the duffers and I'm not a professional in the field?

Andy